I'm the exaggerator here?Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
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I'm the exaggerator here?Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
I don't think anyone is hyping it up in fairness
Linehan fell from a height and potentially could have had a very serious spinal injury or head injury
The medics were excellent in their response in dealing with the immediate aftermath of the effects of linehans accident
Fergal sounds like an idiot - "This happens in rugby but you don't see guys whinging about it. " .....linehan seemed to be having a seizure from I could make out from looking on in the stands.....he was in no position to whinge and nobody else was/is whinging about it
I'm basing it off 4 or 5 Cork fans on here. But I'll take your figures if you want; they prove my point more. Every Cork fan who thought Dennehy's challenge wasn't a red is wrong. I didn't see a single fan from another club argue against a blatant red.Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
My club good, others bad. As I said.
And it holds here. Only Cork fans are arguing that was deliberate (and few of them at that). almost everyone else can see it was an accident, and that Lenihan's challenge was risky. By the law of "my club good, others bad", you are wrong to blame the other club.
Correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I'm quite surprised nobody has commented on the fact his team-mate came immediately to his aid and put him into the recovery position. Should be commended for his quick thinking in a potentially very serious situation where others may have panicked.
absolutely - very good pointQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Who was whinging about it though? Nobody.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
And while swallowing your tongue is technically impossible it's the established term for describing what happened. It happened to me and I was unable to breathe while unconscious. The referee, luckily for me, knew what to do and it was all dealt with without any fuss.
Seeing a guy go off the pitch unconscious and in a neck brace having been in convulsions is a pretty distressing sight. Nobody whinged about it, it was just reported for what it was. That idiot threw in a totally needless bit of macho rugby nonsense. Given how the rugby community acknowledges the seriousness of head injuries and concussion - an area where I think Irish rugby is taking a commendable lead over other nations - I'd hazard a guess that more than 99pc of serious rugby supporters would be mortified by yer man's comment.
It was a pathetic bit of needless point scoring.
Technically, that was a very dangerous thing to do. If he had suffered a neck injury, being rolled could have made it worse, or even killed him. Should have kept his head steady and done a jaw thrust to open the airway. The odds were probably in his favour that there was no neck injury, but stillQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Stutts - You're right that swallowing your tongue is the commonly used layman's term for what happened, but that (to me anyway) conjures up images of sticking your fingers into the guy's mouth to pull it back, which is absolutely the wrong thing to do. So maybe Fergal has a point about using a different term which more naturally conveys what has happened. His tongue blocked his airway, maybe. Still obviously dangerous, and points towards opening the airway. One of the first things you learn in first aid.
Agree completely on the pointless rugby point scoring of course
If Josh O'Shea never does anything else positive on the pitch for the rest of his career with City it won't matter. He's earned his keep with his swift action last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Complete (horrible) accident. I'm not gonna go as far to say I don't care about the result, but Lenihans health is far more concerning than winning last night. Now that he's been given the all clear I hope he is back as soon as possible, but I'll be shocked if he makes the Dundalk game and even Pats would seem a stretch. Concussion is a scary thing.
Up to that point, we were shocking. Worst City performance I've seen all year (wasn't in Dundalk). We couldn't pass the ball, and so we constantly gave it away. I've been saying for years than Dunleavy isn't a midfielder and he was at fault for the first goal, and for tehir chance that led to the shot of the crossbar by not picking up runners. Davoren being taken off may lead to him being scapegoated but those two chances that came from his side were nothing to do with him, and his yellow card was only picked up due to a hospital pass from Dennehy,B.
We need Gearoid Morrissey back in the team as soon as possible, Buckley too.
I know your post crossed with mine, but I think it's really important to emphasise that, in the circumstances of a person landing on their head from a height of ten foot or so, putting them in the recovery position is absolutely the wrong thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
It worked last night, but you can't play odds with potential spinal and neck injuries.
I wasn't aware of that Stu. I know we shouldn't overreact to one off events like this but it only takes a series of small mistakes/accidents to have something like this end so much worse and so perhaps it would be good to have players and coaches properly trained in first aid. My reaction would either have been to be paralyzed with inaction out of shock, or else to attempt the recovery position.
On another note, Lenihan is the second City player to suffer from concussion this year. Along with Barry Murphy in the Rovers v Rovers game thats at least 3 players off the top of my head in the LOI to suffer that so far this year. Our players were both taken out of the action due to the severity but that should be the default position in World Football in my opinion. I was disgusted to see Shamrock Rovers leave Murphy in goal when he had been clearly knocked unconscious. Similarly there were two instances of this in the World Cup where the player was allowed to play on. Any suspected concussion should result in the player being removed regardless of the situation on the pitch.
Longford 1-1 Waterford HT
3-1 Longford.
Not even God can stop them now.
Tony Cousins probably can though.
Buttimer is a pathetic excuse for a ref. Absolutely robbed us tonight. Didn't deserve to lose the game at all. Gutted.
In fairness to him he's keeping it fairly simple. Playing our best players and keeping the ball on the ground as much as possible has produced eight wins in a row. Waterford were decent tonight actually. Jack Doherty was a threat all night.Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Pietro
I'm not sure he robbed you of a result, your poor finishing probably let you down more bit I agree he was shocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by ATFC-1887
Delighted with the win with all the players we were missing, we didn't play well tho but into 3rd and only 6 off Cork so our European hopes still alive. Big few weeks coming up.
Well yeah that is true but we should of had a penalty in the first half. But our finishing did cost us.Quote:
Originally Posted by PartySaint
Absolutely disgusted to see people blaming Paddy Kavanagh for Lenihan's injury. It was a really unfortunate accident that neither player is responsible for. I'm delighted to see he's OK and, even as Stu rightly points out the recovery position was the wrong decision, it was great to see his fellow players on both sides only had eyes for his well-being.
On a side note, Rovers were dreadful again and Croly has to go. Anybody here can tell you I have defended him to the hilt and last season I was convinced he was building something but this season he has just got worse and worse despite a reasonably good league position.
You are arguably correct in what you say. But a jaw thrust is very rarely performed correctly by those who have basic first aid training and protecting c-spine is admirable but pointless if the injured does not have a secure airway. On the balance of all possibilities the correct thing was to act within the scope of knowledge and if that was the recovery position so be it, the best course of action was taken. If on the other hand you had a qualified Paramedic or ED doctor (not a bog standard GP) with appropriate equipment in the vicinity then let them worry about neurological damage or shock while securing the airway. 'Swallowing his tongue' is misleading as it does cause people to think the thing to do is stick fingers etc in to a gob to draw the tongue back, if the injured spews as a resut then we are really in the sh*t, correct terminology should be used and encouraged. I am properly surprised that some people are looking for a scapegoat for what was an accident, CityRebel's foul analysis was amusing this is not now that a blame game was attempted (not by CityRebel mind).Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
There's no "arguably" about it. If Lenihan had damaged one of his c-vertebrae on the way down - entirely possible - then rolling him into the recovery position could have killed him instantly. "Three, four and five keep you alive" is a saying - if you break C3, C4 or C5 in your cervical spine (three of the seven vertebrae at the top of the spine, basically in your neck), your diaphragm stops working and you basically have instant cardiac arrest. I think that's not fully appreciated.
If you roll a patient with a spinal injury, you can do much more harm than good. Yes, protecting c-spine is admirable but pointless if there is no patent airway. But rolling the patient is admirable but pointless if they suffer cardiac arrest. And you risk paralysing the person too. The airway must be opened properly - in the case of a spinal injury, you use a jaw thrust. If you don't know how, you wait for someone who does (and there's an ambulance at all LoI games and supposedly a doctor with each team for a reason). As I said, you shouldn't play odds with spinal injuries. Rolling the person was absolutely not the best course of action. And there is no scope of knowledge which says you roll someone who has just landed on their head from ten foot. You can't make up your own scope of knowledge.
Lenihan didn't necessarily need a paramedic or emergency department doctor; an EMT (from the ambulance crew) would have been enough to maintain the airway, put him on a stretcher and take him to hospital.
I don't want to sound too harsh on O'Shea. I can entirely understand why he acted as he did; it's a completely natural reaction. The real thing to come out of this is that more people should go on a basic first aid course. Just as a general rule, it can't be a bad thing.
The most important thing is Brian Lenihan is ok now.
The Hoare/Gorman thing? That was a free out as Gorman clearly started the wrestling. He was first to go down but not a penalty IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by ATFC-1887
CityRebel - I don't agree. That's very important of course, but i think it'd be more important if people - from watching the incident or even reading this thread - went out and did a first aid course so they could know how to help at something like this in future.
Spoke to someone on this today, and their first comment was that they couldn't believe it when they see Lenihan being rolled "like a sack of spuds" after what happened him.
I can assure you that far more people are saved daily by being rolled 'like a sack of spuds' than intervention being conservative in fear of worsening or causing spinal injury! That is not to say it should totally be disregarded either but to err too much on the side of caution is folly unless there is obvious deformity or trauma. Can anyone recall a serious spinal injury to LoI player??? The chap is fine, and that is due to the actions of people with a basic knowledge of first aid not over complicating things. Well done to them!!
Dr. Stu, that's complete rubbish, there may be lessons to be learned, but the fact he's ok is the most important thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Genuinely Nesta - in the cold light of day, there is no point suggesting rolling Lenihan was the right thing to do. PHECC, who govern first aid (and higher levels of pre-hospital care up to Advanced Paramedic level) will disagree with you quite clearly all the way through their Guidelines, which are available online.
It would objectively have been better had O'Shea realised he was beyond his knowledge and let higher skill levels act.
It has happened in England that people who moved a spinal, paralysing him, got sued for not acting within the scope of their training. If you want to risk paralysing someone and being sued, rolling a spinal is the best way to go.
CItyRebel - one person ok is very important. The skills to make many more ok in the future is, in opinion, more important.
Stu's point i presume is that it may not be just so ok the next time so people should make it their business to know what to do in the event of being present at a similar incident, though to be the most qualified to intervene at a LoI match is unlikely this may not be the case at say a junior match or Summer league. The incident was managed well but I thought the Doctors were a little slow in reacting and getting across to the player. This brings up all sorts of issues in relation to the duty of care that players have to eachother by not feigning injury as in the event of something like this happening people may not react promptly as they should as there is a momentary pause to see if the players is seeking a free or sanction against opposition players!Quote:
Originally Posted by CityRebel
That's exactly it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
In other news, Derry being fairly clinical in the bowl; 4-1 up within an hour. They even scored our goal for us.
Shades of Dalymount as there's a 7 minute hold up for an injury to Mark langtry. Looked like he caught his studs in the turf. But he's been brought by ambulance to the bench apparently. Not seen that before
Dundalk 1 up after 2 minutes. A win next week in Cork could see them have the title wrapped up very early this season.
I know exactly who PHECC are as I have done work with them! I also cannot agree that clinical guidlines govern all circumstances without pragmatism considered - and an experience practioner would know this. Higher skilled people were some distance away and O Shea acted quickly and competently for the circumstances he was faced with. I have pm'd you Stu earlier outlining the rationale of not over thinking First Aid ie aid given before professional help arrives mainly not to pull the thread further off topic. First Aiders should not be bogged down by PHECC Pre-Hospital care guidelines as that is not their job. When somone dies from easily resolved hypoxia from not being rolled due to somone afraid to act in case of exacerbating an unlikely spinal injury we shall see what the courts have to say. In the meantime Good Samaratin Law will do just fine as a defence to litigation. Doing nothing is a lot worse than doing something in good faith hence litigation is a red herring and scare mongering! Exactly the sort of stuff that discourages people from becoming first aiders! If a paramedic log rolled without caution to further injury then they are open to litigation as they have the skill sets to interevene in a manner appropriate to their level of training. Anyway enough now. The outcome was spot on, phecc all was done wrong, nobody died and a basic first aider should stick to the basics (dr)ABC's not riduclous immobilisations or jaw thrusts!!
UCD 1-6 Derry City
Patterson x2
Duffy x3
Molloy
Doherty OG for UCD
Also Shaun Kelly signed for us from Limerick
2-0 dundalk ugh
That goal difference dundalk have is definitely an extra point.. we will have to be at it from the start on Friday and not let them play cos they have players to do a lot of damage to any team that don't get it right at the back
Maybe Trevor Croly can loan us a few players for next week; Kilduff can come back to his preferred hunting ground for a start. ;)
Decent signing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron
I believe that Lenihan being ok is the most important thing, I agree that "people should make it their business to know what to do in the event of being present at a similar incident". I said as much earlier in the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Comfortable win for us this evening. We didn't have to work too hard to get it. We'll have to up our game for the trip to Turners Cross but I think we can. A win there for us would be huge going into the last series of games.