We're quite indifferent to NI's results as opposed to their self conscious "look at how crap the Republic are playing. Yipee!!" ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
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We're quite indifferent to NI's results as opposed to their self conscious "look at how crap the Republic are playing. Yipee!!" ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
Not sure that your analogy quite works, but its probably not helpful to spell out why. Just thought EG might have a view on this one. I think the Celtic Cup is a waste of time as a competition, using it an an exercise in post-GFA cross-community reconcilliation seemed like its only conceivable justification.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Yes, I am "obsessed", but only with one of the Irish teams; as regards the other Irish team, I merely take a neighbourly interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Not for me, there's not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Listen, it was a joke. And everyone else, whether amused, annoyed or indifferent, read it and carried on. Whereas only you were seemingly so moved as to "go to the trouble" of responding ("observing"?).
Twice.
Edit: I see it's three "observations" now. Obsessive? Moi?
No offence, tp, but I find your reasoning bizarre. The overwhelming majority of NI fans have no desire to see their National team disappear, whether into an all-Ireland team, or into an all-UK team.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
There is, however, an all-Ireland lobby which would see this happen. Why, therefore, would any of us be happy to see a prototype all-Ireland team set up, even for the purposes of this tournament?
If anything, such an idea would only further antagonise the NI support, especially those whose objections are strongly political as well as footballing.
Besides, a three team tournament isn't going to amount to much, is it?
P.S. You may see no justification for this tournament - and you may well be right, though I personally would beg to differ - but the four Associations must see some merit in it (if only financial).
[QUOTE=EalingGreen;1032622][QUOTE=OwlsFan;1032420] Oh the joy of that Alan McLoughlin goal and Billy Bigot getting his come uppance.[/QUOTE]If you are referring to Billy Bingham, then you couldn't be more wrong. I think this comes from the oft-repeated myth that Bingham encouraged the fans in singing sectarian songs at this game. Whilst such songs were sung by a section of the crowd at times, I was at the game and can assure you that he did no such thing. During a period of the game when we were in the ascendancy, he stepped to the side of the pitch to roar on both his own players and the fans. However, I am pretty certain we were singing "One Team in Ireland" at the time.
Think it was the fact that Billy Bingham was doing a mock "Royal Wave" to the crowd that gave most people the idea he was stirring.Anyway, Alan Mclaughlin sent us to the world cup and Billy went home and practiced his wave.
[quote=EalingGreen;1034266]No offence, tp, but I find your reasoning bizarre. The overwhelming majority of NI fans have no desire to see their National team disappear, whether into an all-Ireland team, or into an all-UK team.
Looks like there will be an all UK team competing in the next Olympic competition. How is this playing with NI fans?
I agree that the overwhelming majority of NI fans have no desire to see their team disappear, but the problem for NI is that it seems that its fan base has effectively diminished to the point where it appeals almost exclusively to one section of the population. The majority of current fans might not see this is a problem (a small element might actually prefer it that way), but its sad that football is becoming polarised in this way. Its also disingenuous for you to pretend that there isn't a problem.
My mother is from the North and Pat Jennings is a family friend. You are right that the NI team once had a much bigger cross community support, ironically when the political situation was worse than it is now. You are also right about Billy Bingham. his achievements with the 82 and 86 teams were miraculous in both footballing and political terms. I grew up supporting both Irish teams, but the NI team has become very firmly identified with one tradition and one set of loyalties. If it is really going to reclaim cross community support then some sort of imaginative gesture is needed. Maybe this isn't it, but to reject it on the basis that the "overwhelming majority of NI fans dont want to see their team disappear" sounds a little bit too much like an "Ulster says no" response.
EG:
I enjoy your posts. I don't agree with 99.9% of what you post but I appreciate and admire the clarity and thought that goes into each post.
I was not at the match in 1994. I was, however, watching it on the TV and I recall Bingham actually turning to the crowd and inciting them. I think the issue was the given the climate it may have been an inoportune gesture.
Not quite sure what a 'mock "Royal Wave"' is :confused:.Quote:
Originally Posted by Youwerethereray
Anyhow, "most" people did not "get the idea he was stirring" - or at least those actually at the game, like myself. Rather, a few people, possibly with an ulterior motive and likely not even at the game, have spread Chinese Whispers. The worst of these was that he was egging the crowd on to sing the Billy Boys. Considering half his team was Catholic, why in Hell would he do that?
And why is it hard to understand that in his last ever game in charge, he would encourage the crowd to get behind the team?
Tbh, I think at least part of the reason for the many exagerrations and distortions of the scenes that night - and I accept there was much bad behaviour from many NI fans - is that the ROI thought we were going to be a pushover (esp having won 3-0 in Dublin).
The fact that we wanted to win it as badly as you seems to have been a bit of a shock. And I have no doubt that one of the reasons why the players in particular were so fired up, was to try and give Billy B a winning send-off - Catholic players and all. Not bad for a notorious "bigot", eh?
Or didn't you notice how joyously Jimmy Quinn celebrated his goal? :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Well most "ROI" supporters certainly got the idea he was stirring. He was waving his hand in a circular motion like the queen does when waving to her subjects. Never called him a bigot though , think old Billy just got caught up in an emotional night and would have loved one up on us. Shame it didnt work out for him.
Oh i Remember Quinn's celebration alright - prefered Mclaughlin's.
There will be a "Team GB" [sic] representing the UK in 2012, but it will be entirely made up of English players, since the IFA, SFA and FAW (and respective fans) want nothing whatever to do with it. Indeed, even the England Fans' representative body (the FSF) have come out against it, in solidarity with their fellow Britons:Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
www.NoTeamGB.com
I have never pretended there isn't a problem. Just as I have no problem with those Catholics in my NI Supporters Club, with whom I travel to games, nor they with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
And of course the NI team appeals predominantly to one community in NI. However, it was not always so, and I am convinced that with the changes which have occurred in recent years, it certainly need not be that way in future.
For one thing, when/if we ever get a bigger stadium capacity, this will release many more tickets for general sale, outside of the present "stranglehold" on availability which our Block Bookers have had for some years now.
Secondly, as the Peace Process continues to take root, there is a whole generation of youngsters for whom the Troubles don't actually mean a great deal.
Plus the fact that our recovery on the field will likely attract more support, esp following the end of the ROI's period of ascendancy.
On which point, if people from NI choose to support the ROI, for whatever reason, then good for them. It is a free country, and we won't miss them.
Lots of people are working every day of the week, in every part of NI, on all sorts of schemes, imaginative and prosaic, to bring people together.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
If you don't believe me, just flick through the News Pages of this:
http://www.irishfa.com/grassroots/football-for-all/
So we football fans must not express our opposition towards something which we see as threatening our very existence, for fear of being traduced and misrepresented, or associated by others with someone else's political movement?Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
Aye, right. :rolleyes:
"Most" ROI supporters weren't even at the game - iirc, the official away allocation was fewer than 100 tickets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Youwerethereray
And if they choose to imagine that he was in some way "stirring" by adopting a "Royal Wave" of some sort - a notion which is entirely new to me :confused: - then so be it. i will continue to believe what I saw and heard, namely, at a time when we were on the front foot, he stepped forward to encourage his players and fans on.
Then again, you might not be aware of such "unusual" behaviour, seeing as little, quiet Jack Charlton never ever got animated on the touchline...
Fair enough. But seeing as Billy is one of my heroes, I get pretty sick of hearing him libelled by others, in a particularly disgusting way, as seems still to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Youwerethereray
I wouldn't expect anything else - nor ever object to it. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Youwerethereray
Thank You.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's Son
The day a manager is stopped from encouraging his players and fans forward, to the background of an entirely acceptable song ("One Team in Ireland"), in a derby match, with so much resting on it, will be the day when football ceases to be football. And I'll take up knitting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's Son
As I said above, did you really expect that we would just roll over and die?
Frankly, for our players and manager to have given less than 100% would have been cheating our fans, cheating the other teams in the Group and cheating the spirit of football.
If other elements vested other, more sinister, meaning to the game, then shame on them.
I am happy that on the night, our team/manager wanted to win a football match, for the right reasons and in the right manner, with my greatest (footballing) regret being that we didn't quite manage it.
Que Sera Sera...
I have to respectfull disagree. It was inoportune. Most managers do not usually turn to the crowd of home supporters and gee them up like that. I don't think Bingham made a habbit of doing so during his career. In the general context, outside of whateve particular song may have been sung at the time, it looked like he was encouraging a braying mob at a particularly sensitive time. I believe Charlton was understandably upset at that.
Billy B wouldn't be the first OWCer who creamed himself prematurely:D
They all get their comeuppance eventually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
as if that was the only song they were singing! Sure you could quite clearly hear all the stuff sang at the game from the TV - things about the Pope and all.
Also the atmosphere came across as very loaded, and Billy Bingham was def stoking it all up, which he is entitled to do - but in the week that it was maybe it wasnt such a good idea
Not sure about that. OK, there's a bit of banter and as the smallest country hereabouts we like to be ahead of the neighbours even if only temporarily. But clearly we are both third-rate. You are clearly self-conscious about our team and supporters (as this and other lengthy threads show), even if not the actual results. I mean, we're talking about a game 14 years ago that barely any of ye went to: yet everyone's fascinated by it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
The analogy is exact. I realise you may see it as a wind-up, but then I read yours in the same terms. Making some money (mainly for the FAI as hosts) and giving four low-achieving teams a chance to win a pot seem more conceivable justifications to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Policeman
He encouraged the crowd to get behind the team; the game ended with a fair result; Billy retired to work in the antiques business with his family. I'm sure he had no intention of aping or joining the royal family ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by YWT Ray
Clearly a majority are opposed, as in Scotland and Wales. And as EG says, fans groups in England also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Policeman
Actually NI's fanbase has held up well, and increased, in recent years- during which we were very poor on the pitch and had the Neil Lennon incidents etc. off it. The IFA, supporters clubs etc. have done much to make following NI more welcome to all. I don't see any inherent reason why younger fans from nationalist areas won't support us as well as RoI in the future (or even vice-versa), as you did as a kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Policeman
A major factor in this must have been your failure to qualify in the 70s and most of the 80s, whereas we had a good side for six or seven years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Policeman
Ha ha. Not sure that your analogy quite works, as the man said. We're rejecting it because none of us want it, for reasons detailed at length on this thread and elsewhere. Comparing it with a Paisleyite slogan is trite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Policeman
He encouraged them to support the team. What did you expect him to do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's son
If so, most of you were being completely unrealistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by YWT Ray
You can't be serious. Managers do it all the time. When they go over the top (as Bingham didn't) they get cautioned or sent to the stands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergie's son
Make your mind up- either it was a good idea and he was entitled, or it wasn't? 'Manager encouraging home fans in local derby' and 'opposing paramiliaries in tit for tat killings' are separate issues. Bingham acted reasonably on the night and demonising him is wholly unjustified.Quote:
Originally Posted by BennoCelt
My posts weren't directed solely and specifically at you, EG - it just reaffirms - yes, an observation - that NI may well revel in our misfortune in the same way that we still like to see England struggle.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
"Neighbourly interest" - it's an almost quaint notion. Once it's not "Keeping up with the Jones'" ;)*
* That's a joke too. Feel free to be amused, annoyed or indifferent to same. :)
[QUOTE=EalingGreen;1034256]Yes, I am "obsessed", but only with one of the Irish teams; as regards the other Irish team, I merely take a neighbourly interest.
funny how that does not show from previous threads.
its ok to tell the truth :)
Would those new fans be 'H Block Bookers' if the stadium at The Maze site ever goes ahead? Sorry, couldn't resist! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
For the record I don't think Bingham was a bigot for many of the reasons articulated by the Northern posters on here. However, I do think he behaved pretty badly on the night, there was seriously bad chanting and singing by a section of NI fans that night and the fact that Billy was pumping up the fans was a bit crass for me given the phase of the troubles we were in on the island. I think he got carried away and should have shown more decorum (especially given his reputation as one of the gentlemen of the game).
To suggest it was a hramless gesture is pure revisionism and is trying to remove it from it's context.
More decorum? Come on, it was a football match, not the state opening of Dail Eireann. Bingham did nothing wrong. Blame the minority in the crowd by all means. Hardly revisionist- we said it at the time too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
i have come to the conculsion that EGs thoughts are so deeply entrenched on one side, that he tries to reflect, mirror like, an image of ROI supporters to justify his own beliefs, reading this post I am even more affirmed in my view of this.
Thats not to say I don't enjoy his posts though :D
See EG, if we all start loving you and agreeing with you, would your opinion change, or would you just not bother to post?!
I think before this thread continues on its "what Billy Bingham did or not do path", let's start seeing some video evidence.
The match took place 15 years ago. The only thing I remember from that night is Alan McLoughlin's goal, the result, and Jack Charlton's press conference afterwards when he said Alan McLoughlin finally justified his existance.
It was a football match with certain political sensitivites, I cancelled my trip up there at the time due to what was going on (and the lack of tickets). And I'd have been a regular visitor to the north rather then someone who'd not have set foot in it previously but the situation was as bad as it had been in a long time in November 93.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Look, I'd expect you to have a different opinion to us on it but sectarian chanting could clearly be heard consitently throughout the game on TV, maybe Billy was stoking it up when there was a lull in the sectarian aspect and the only chant in the ground was the 'one team in Ireland' chant but hat wasn't how it appeared. And I doubt for a second that Bingham wasn't aware of the sectarian stuff, it was clearly audible and wasn't isolated. Hence why I think he sullied his bib that night.
But it's all water under the bridge now and I certainly didn't let it spoil my enjoyment after the final whistle that night.
And even though it was 15 years ago it's hardly surprising we still talk about it given that it was the match that sealed our 2nd WC qualification, it's one of the most important results in our history.
You knew what I meant, D9-69. Judging by this thread your fans still talk about the opposition manager almost as much as you do the qualification itself ;)
For reasons I've tried to articulate above. It's not something that regulalry gets dragged up at Ireland matches though, trust me on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
That said, I've not seen any playwrights from the Republic write about it.....;)
We prefer to write about the likes of this....
In High Germany
http://www.irishplayography.com/sear...sp?play_id=278
I'd recommend it if anyone hasn't seen it, tends to do limited runs every now and again and I still have a recording of it from RTE from around 15 years back as well. Superb play.
Obviously if reference is made to the discussed topic in this thread. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
This thread is hardly untypical though, is it? The subject does tend to recur- I find when your fans are talking about NI and England, and the likelihood of playing them in future, the games in 1993 and 1995 are invariably mentioned. At which point someone tends to say that the earlier date was when they stopped following NI, and that BB was to blame.
Tends to recur whenever A Night in November does a run or, in this instance, is the subject of a TV programme. And I don't think 1993 was mentioned in any major fashion when the Celtic cup was announced although I'm open to correction on that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Generally we prefer to talk about 1988 (or the 1990 (twice) and 1991 games) when discussing England...;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Think it was Gramsci who said that politics is everythig that concerns people, so like it or not ever contribution on this thread is a political statement, but we'll come to that in a minute.
Clearly I wasn't proposing anything that threatened the existence of the NI team, rather something that might help normalise neighbourly relations and help NI reclaim a deeply alienated element of its potential support base. The fact that you rejected it from the perspective of NI's existing supporters is indicative of the problem. You know as well as I do that the % of Catholics who now follow or support the NI team is on a par with former RUC membership statistics. Irrespective of their on field performances the NI football team has become "structurally flawed" and to that extent maybe you should ask your Catholic NI supporting friends or the many more Catholics who dont follow NI what they think of my "Celtic Cup" proposition before rejecting it out off hand. I happen to think that it might do more to dismantle the barricades that have been erected around footballing identities on this island than 1000 grass roots initiatives. If Irish history teaches us anything, it is that symbolism matters, its what engenders a sense of belonging and inclusion.
If you want me to believe that your pasionate and eloquent support for the NI football team has nothing to do with someone else'e political movement, then you should be wiling to conceed that the NI team has no absolute right to exist. If it cannot draw cross community support and contribute to reconcilliation and the building of a common identity in the North then what is its function? It's nothing more than "Unionism at play." I dont accept a situation where all Northern Protestants support NI and 90% plus Catholics support RoI as a reasonable expression of free choice. It's sad and dispiriting and an insult to the achievments of Blancheflower, Doherty, Bingham, Best, Jennings, Dougan, Armstrong, Whiteside. O'Neil. Lennon and everyone else who has contributed to a proud footballing history.
From our point of view, any suggestion that we support a joint team with larger country or countries clearly threatens our team. You must know this, so your suggestion looks like either a wind up (no different from my question whether you'd support a joint England-RoI team), or completely naive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Third policeman
In the broader sense (ie not merely referencing football) I think our relations are OK at the moment.Quote:
rather something that might help normalise neighbourly relations
As I mentioned above, there's evidence that many of this group now feel more welcome and less alienated than they did, which is great. An extended period without endemic political violence is likely to make younger fans less bothered about supporting both teams, although I think we'd be happy enough if your fans in NI simply saw our team neutrally.Quote:
and help NI reclaim a deeply alienated element of its potential support base
Hardly. We can only really react to it on behalf of our own fans. Are you a spokesman for the potential new fans? If so, welcome aboard, but we're not interested in your idea. If it, or something like it, is a condition for your support, then thanks but no thanks.Quote:
The fact that you rejected it from the perspective of NI's existing supporters is indicative of the problem
See above. I think both numbers will rise during a hopefully less volatile period politically.Quote:
You know as well as I do that the % of Catholics who now follow or support the NI team is on a par with former RUC membership statistics
Disagree. Support is welcome from all. Those locally choosing to support someone else is fine provided they don't stereotype our team unfairly to justify it.Quote:
Irrespective of their on field performances the NI football team has become "structurally flawed"
I did ask the one I'll be watching the game in Slovenia with. He agreed with me. I'd be amazed if more than a tiny fraction of our support, regardless of creed or politics, agreed with you. Or if many of your own fans anywhere in ireland or elsewhere did so.Quote:
and to that extent maybe you should ask your Catholic NI supporting friends or the many more Catholics who dont follow NI what they think of my "Celtic Cup" proposition before rejecting it out off hand
You're getting a bit carried away with the soundbites there. We don't want to "dismantle the barricades" (figuratively speaking), since without them, we wouldn't have any international team to support...Quote:
I happen to think that it might do more to dismantle the barricades that have been erected around footballing identities on this island than 1000 grass roots initiatives
Yes, but so what? We already have a sense of belonging and inclusion, it's just different from yours and the other 51 members of UEFA Your're suggesting we give it up, and offering little more than empty cliche to justify..Quote:
If Irish history teaches us anything, it is that symbolism matters, its what engenders a sense of belonging and inclusion
All international teams have some link with 'national(ist), in the broadest sense, politics. If they didn't, we would just follow club or ad-hoc teams.Quote:
If you want me to believe that your pasionate and eloquent support for the NI football team has nothing to do with someone else'e political movement
Where'd you read that? Gramsci's prison diaries?Quote:
then you should be wiling to conceed that the NI team has no absolute right to exist
It does draw, contribute and build. As well as play football, like.Quote:
If it cannot draw cross community support and contribute to reconcilliation and the building of a common identity in the North then what is its function?
You're nothing but a wind-up with a few names to drop.Quote:
It's nothing more than "Unionism at play"
Well, obviously I think it is such an expression. Given that we can all support who the hell we like. Do you think all NI-based fans are sheep with no will of their own?Quote:
I dont accept a situation where all Northern Protestants support NI and 90% plus Catholics support RoI as a reasonable expression of free choice
It's none of those things, as above. Their achivements are rightly celebrated- on that at least we can agree.Quote:
It's sad and dispiriting and an insult to the achievments of Blancheflower, Doherty, Bingham, Best, Jennings, Dougan, Armstrong, Whiteside. O'Neil. Lennon and everyone else who has contributed to a proud footballing history
Gather Round has answered point-by-point in a manner with which I concur completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by third policeman
So rather than repeating the same, I will just make a general point. There are no good reasons, never mind "barricades" [sic], why anyone from NI cannot follow the team should they wish. This happy situation is a consequence of a great deal of work, done by many different people and agencies, both official (IFA, "Football For All" etc) and unofficial (fans, "Sea of Green etc) over a number of years.
Of course, it is still a "work in progress", but already it has been widely recognised by independent and authoritative bodies, including UEFA, City of Brussels, NI Community Relations Council etc. Indeed, you only need Google "SARI" and "Brian Kerr" to see where he has praised NI football for its success in this field, comparing it most favourably with other sports in Ireland.
But the key component of the above is "if they wish". That is, we cannot force anybody to support us against their will, nor would we wish to, even if we could.
Moreover, we are not going to apologise for, and/or change, our very nature, just to appease people whose political outlook means that they cannot or will not support any team calling itself "Northern Ireland", especially if that stance is further misinformed by an outdated, ill conceived and even prejudiced view of the true situation, viz "Billy Bingham is a Bigot" etc.
Sadly, there is still a significant political problem surrounding the NI team these days, but it is entrenched in the minds of our detractors, not in our own policies, practices and procedures. In which case, I and all my fellow fans who are committed to the team will do all we can both to reform (where that is still needed) and inform (where people are still ignorant); we can reasonably do no more.
Ultimately, the people of NI will decide for themselves which team they follow and I am happy to leave it at that. For I have no doubt that all reasonable people can in time be persuaded to give us a try, whether they take it further or not is up to them.
And as for the prejudiced, the politicised, the ignorant and the "bandwaggoners", they may support whoever they like. We do not want them; moreover, we do not need them.
Beyond that, there is not a lot more I can add, so i will leave the last words to a former NI footballer, speaking at a Football For All Awards Dinner:
"People like Stewart [Fans Award winner] are the unsung heroes who have been brave enough to challenge sectarianism and who have actively created a more fun, safe and family-orientated atmosphere at international games. Fans like Stewart have made the atmosphere at Northern Ireland football games in recent years the envy of Fans across not only Europe but World football. From a personal point of view I would like to thank them for their efforts"
Neil Lennon, 2007
Well, obviously I think it is such an expression. Given that we can all support who the hell we like. Do you think all NI-based fans are sheep with no will of their own?
My first two international matches were NI games in the 1970's when politics was a lot more divided but strangely football was not. I am not really sure why football is lagging so far behind other aspects of social and political progress in NI, maybe it attracts or encourages overly partisan and distorted outlooks. In a nutshell you think that two all-Ireland fixtures every couple of years is a priori unacceptable irrespective of whether it helps encourage cross comunity or cross border reconciliation, and you are happy to accept a situation where your national football team is not supported by nearly half the nation's population?
Postscript:
I've just read an interview with Sammy Clingan, who has been forced by injury to withdraw from the NI squad for the weekend. In it, he is quoted as saying the following:
“I’m 100% committed to Northern Ireland and I love playing for my country and for that reason I am devastated to be missing these games."
“I missed two games in the Euro 2008 qualifiers against Sweden and Liechtenstein so I already know what it feels like to miss out on massive games. It is always a privilege to pull on the Northern Ireland jersey.”
And just in case you should be in any doubt as to who our wee Sammy is,
"There's only one Sammy Clingan,
Only One Sammy Clingan,
He comes from the Falls,
And he's got Big Balls,
Swinging in a Clingan Wonderland"
;)
I don't think it is lagging compared to those other aspects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Policeman
Unlikely. Most other apsects of social/ political life in NI tend to be fairly partisan. Our outlook is only distorted in the sense that it disagrees with yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Policeman
Unacceptable, yes. For reasons detailed at length, so not quite 'a priori' if by that you mean that we're dismissing it without listening to the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Policeman
Winding up NI fans encourages them how, exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Policeman
I'd prefer the numbers were higher (as detailed above), but yes, I'm relaxed about the current situation. Your plan would not increase support for a NI team- its intent looks the exact opposite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Policeman
Ditto, thanks ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EG
That's great to read EG.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
But who's Sammy Clingan? :D
Edit: Just looked up your reference point Wikipedia and he sounds like a right superstar.
what i don't fully understand(well lots actually :D) is the use of the word "we", when I read such comments as "we cannot force anybody to support us against their will", "If so, welcome aboard, but we're not interested in your idea" etc etc. Its like the "we" is some form of governing body over the team and its fans with beliefs based upon those from the very existence of the IFA. :confused:
Paul- I think I can speak for EG on this thread, when I say that we (ie he and I) are accurately representing what NI fans think on this issue. Our source? Hundreds maybe thousands of other fans on OWC, mainly. You could say it's a self-selecting sample, I suppose, but a pretty big one in a small country. Trust us ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Obviously the very existence of the IFA is vital to us as international football fans. Because without it, we wouldn't be international football fans.
He achieved more in Euro 2008 than any of your players.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fk
Well apart from getting Sammy Clingan into our line-up, there're no practical reasons for an "All-Ireland" team - a discussion that already has run its course on this site and a topic that has nothing to do with this thread.
I totally understand why NI fans would be against the notion of an All-Ireland team and, personally, it's an idea I'm against as well (although I'm obviously deeply disappointed about losing out on the services of Sammy Clingan).
Yes - totally agree. Time for Platini to give him an award.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Thanks, IFK. I think we get the point about Sammy ;)
It's on the thread because Third Policeman raised it. Given that, NI fans are likely to reply. If the mods ain't happy, no doubt they'll lock/ delete etc. as necessary.
Fair enough. Best to keep quiet about his talents or otherwise we'll have Dermot Ahern on Prime Time again ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round