Quote:
Originally Posted by amaccann
Why do you think Houllier or Deschamps would do a good job, Houllier in particular appears to be far more interested in a return to the premiership.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaccann
Why do you think Houllier or Deschamps would do a good job, Houllier in particular appears to be far more interested in a return to the premiership.
The salary our new manager will receive will be in excess of 1 million Euro per annum, making it one of the highest paid international management positions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenforever
Obviously no comparison to what the top club teams are paying, but at the end of this process we should have a man worthy of the salary.
If we're going to settle for a risky contender, he should have a salary that reflects that.
Hopefully we get a good manager and the significant salary will encourage him to stick around.
Our key players are not the "committed grafters" of legend; Keane, Ireland, Doyle, McGeady, Andy Reid, Duff, and Hunt can all play football, and wouldn't be as effective in an Allardyce system.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bit O'Red
If he was the manager, I can see him dropping one of our flair wingers for the likes of Kilbane.
He favours athletes over footballers, and there's nothing wrong with that mentality, but the majority of our players are footballing on the floor types.
Steven Reid, Kilbane, O'Shea would be the key figures in an Allardyce system.
Agreed he will be one of the highest paid International managers, but we need someone that wants the job not the money. Thankfully Ray Houghton has the same outlook and hopefully the amigos will get the right man for the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
I agree that we need someone who wants the job, but I think a good salary creates a situation where stability can be more attainable because they won't be looking to move on at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenforever
Look at Liverpool's record under Houllier. Replace "Liverpool" with, say, Blackburn. Does his record suddenly seem so terrible? His career has been argued to death already elsewhere, but I think Houllier comes with more success than most of the other candidates. And I think his history in the youth game should also count in his favour.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bit O'Red
As for relating the team to that of Bolton, well we have some talented ball players now, there's no reason to think you can't combine graft with skill. As has been mentioned, the FAI can write a million euro cheque, why limit your options?
At Bolton he was able to get players who played his 4 3 3 long ball game, we dont have players for that. We dont have lots of big playlers who are athletic and like to kick the ball long and chase. So he is not right for us.
A friend of mine (yes, surprisingly enough, I do have one or two friends) met his daughter on holidays somewhere before and said she was well fit. That's the only Allardyce I want to support in the future. :)
Boring Stat Alert.
Just to back up those saying he's a long ball merchant... There's huge difference in pass success rate between Bolton and Newcastle, this season and last season.
Bolton:
Newcastle:Code:06/07 07/08
Player Passes/90 minutes (Success)
N.Hunt 32 (57%) 26 (62%)
T.B.Haim 36 (63%) 49 (92%)
A.Meite 27 (71%) 22 (78%)
A.Faye 33 (66%) 31 (75%) Still playing under Sam
I.Campo 43 (71%) 45 (72%)
G.Speed 39 (70%) 36 (72%)
K.Nolan 26 (69%) 20 (76%)
E.H.Diouf 30 (73%) 30 (76%)
N.Anelka 25 (72%) 23 (73%)
K.Davies 37 (52%) 33 (55%)
Total/Average 328 (66.4%) 315 (73.1%)
That type of manager simply wouldn't suit our players others have said.Code:06/07 07/08
Player Passes/90 minutes (Success)
H.Beye - 26 (66%)
D.Rozehnal - 31 (76%)
S.Taylor 36 (72%) 29 (76%)
C.N'Zogbia 31 (75%) 32 (69%)
N.Butt 50 (73%) 42 (74%)
Geremi 55 (76%) 41 (77%)
A.Smith 35 (77%) 33 (72%)
J.Milner 33 (72%) 26 (68%)
M.Viduka 32 (70%) 29 (67%)
O.Martins 27 (77%) 21 (71%)
Total/Average - (74%) 310 (71.6%)
Proof of this would be the fact arguably Newcastle's most technically gifted player, Emre, was left on the bench for most of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serb
he never lived in ireland, he used to come into shannon on a thursday evening, stay with billy kinnane who was involved with Limerick at the time and fly home straight after the games whenever they were
This is just getting stupid, we are becoming just like the british! Ye are all up your own arses, whens the last time Ireland had played flowing football. When we have tried it didnt work! Let give Allardyce a crack. Hes the best option we have out of a very bad bunch, but lets not forget we have been a very bad team for a long long time. Im sick of watching Ireland go out and perform like a bunch of donkeys, We have some good players thats it nothing more. Shays been poor for newcastle hes lost alot of confidence because he plays behind a ****e defence for both club and country. Steve Finnan is well past his best but still good. dyle is grafter nothing special. Thats all we have grafters. Wake up we dont have quality players we need a manager that can get the best out of our team. Allardyce at Bolton.
I'm sorry but Allerdyce would probably favour Kilbane, O'Shea and Morrison over Reid, Ireland and Doyle. I certainly couldn't see him playing Reid in central midfield. If there's one thing I care about most it's actually playing a good style of football. I want us to at least do ourselves justice. Fair enough, let's try to beat Italy by pure guts and determination but I want to actually try to beat Bulgaria, Georgia and Cyprus by playing football. I just wouldn't be happy winning ugly knowing we've footballers sitting on the bench. Even if there's more chance of us winning. As a Celtic fan I wasn't over the moon with the win over Shakhtar because it was terribly ugly win and if Nakamura had've been playing I think that would have been a lot different.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Owls
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manc Irish Wolf
Collins as in Roddy Collins??? :eek: yer 'avin a laff ain't ya?! :)
Anyway kinda indifferent to Allardyce, haven't really seen Newcastle play this season so can't comment on that but I have to say that Newcastle isn't the kind of club that anyone would turn around in the space of 8/9 months, there are problems far deeper than the dodgy defence at that club.
Like him or hate him he definitely has a better pedigree in the modern game than the likes of Venebles Hoddle Dalglish or McCarthy....
That's the exact attitude that's getting us no-where. Ireland are still under the old english style football influence only because we have adopted and been encouraging that style of football for so long.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bit O'Red
When you look at any of the Serbian countires or other small European countries such as Czech Rep, Poland, Finland, Greece etc, who don't even have the resources we do, they bring in managers who adopt a modern approach to the style of football and methods they encourage and in turn do a lot better in international football.
Why can't we beat Italy, sure we may as well not play them at all so and just give them the points....... sure give the players a night off and open up a free bar in lillies with karaoke hosted by Phil Babb?
Any decent team is capable of beating any other team in International football.
It takes time and a good manager to change the style of football a nation plays. but adopting the hoof the ball attitude, in this day and age, is another step in the wrong direction which will only make it more difficult to catch up with the rest of the world (apart from the UK and NI).
####
More on topic: I don't think Allardyce is a hoof the ball merchant anyway, Bolton played some nice football and he picked skillfull players like Anelka, Speed, Campo, Ben Haim, Diouf, Stelios, Fadiga and the one and only [SIZE=-1]Jay-Jay Okocha[/SIZE] ... they just scored a lot of goals from set peices and crosses which was just playing their strengths.
The Newcastle job was a bad decision, everyone knows its cursed.... its a club that would take a manager at least 2 years to turn around and even though I don't think they gave Sam enough time, I don't think he was up to it or approached it in the right manner.... but we learn the most by making mistakes and I'd imagine he has been humbled a little and has learned a few lessons.
As far as players not liking him, when the chips are down people don't get along as well as they do when winning... i'd say Allardyce was getting a lot of abuse from the board, something he wouldn't be familiar with from his time at Bolton, and that affected his relationship with the players.
I'm by no means saying Allardyce is a great manager and perfect for the job, but I think he is being judged solely on the Newcastle job and thats not fair. He has an excellent record at Bolton and is by no means a poor manager.
He's not my ideal manager for the job, as I believe we need a european style manager with eurpean football experience, but I wouldn't be too objective if he did get it .... considering the shams who have been mentioned aleady ... cough* cough* Venables.
very good post. personally most people on this thread sound like a bunch of eamonn dunphy-ites.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Owls
my only reservation is that allardyce seems like a bit more of a wheeler-dealer thus more suited to club management.
I still reckon he'd be good though... plus he's the last man to get limerick up to the premier too... :)
Uhhhhh, no. Arses have nothing to do with this (Delaney aside. Narf). This is about getting bang for you buck. We have a squad of middling to decent players, with some technically gifted ones in the mix. Why must we perennially chase the premiership managers, especially the likes of Sam, or Jewell, or O'Leary because of some belief that we might get above ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Owls
God forbid we indulge in a little confidence in ourselves.
There's a pretty damning piece on Allardyce in today's Irish Times
Parting of the ways proved inevitable Newcastle manager
Louise Taylor
Divorce lawyers say January is invariably their busiest month, the post-festive period being the time when unhappy couples tend to reach snapping point.
For a manager and a club so patently unsuited as Sam Allardyce and Newcastle United, a run of five games without a win indicated separation could be imminent and it was no real surprise to learn the pair had parted company last night.
Recent suggestions from within the club never rang true that Mike Ashley, the club's billionaire owner, and the chairman, Chris Mort, a corporate lawyer, were determined to think long term and offer Allardyce the time he needed.
Quite apart from the fact that Allardyce was not their appointment - the manager having been hired by Freddy Shepherd, Newcastle's former chairman, just days before Ashley's takeover - ruthlessness is a quality billionaires and partners in leading London law firms rarely lack.
Allardyce did not have the sort of broad vision and thick skin required to manage a club as large as Newcastle. Indeed, his mentality could be described as "small-town", something manifested by his cautious, stifling, tactics and *****liness in the face of criticism.
Whereas at Bolton he had controlled every aspect of the club, at Newcastle he struggled to impose his will on a squad, board, crowd and local media often out of sync with his own philosophies. Tyneside may be less than three hours drive from Lancashire, but Allardyce found the culture shock immense.
His cause was hardly helped by Ashley's somewhat eccentric decision to "totally immerse" himself in the culture of his new club. This involved a man previously known as a recluse drinking with fans in the Bigg Market, wearing a replica shirt alongside the Toon Army in away ends at places like Wigan, and even travelling to games on supporters' buses.
Such journeys will have fully acquainted Newcastle's owner with the word on the street, and Ashley must have learnt that Allardyce's brutally pragmatic vision of the way the game needed to be played did not exactly excite season-ticket holders.
Long balls crashed towards the corner flags as part of a long throw-propelled percentage game may have worked for a while at Bolton, but the stakes are higher and the fans more demanding at Newcastle.
Moreover, there were increasing murmurings of dissent from within a dressingroom in which Michael Owen was understood to be unhappy at receiving too many balls at throat height, and several other players including Emre Belozoglu and James Milner felt Allardyce's strict game-plans were cramping their creativity.
His squad grew bored during interminable team meetings about how "to stop" opponents, and one brave player once asked: "But what do you want us to do when we're on the ball?"
Such caution is all very well if points are being racked up, but Allardyce's spoiling tactics were not very successful.
Bobby Robson became so concerned about the lack of style at the team he once managed that he urged Allardyce publicly to "pass it shorter and play carpet football". As obdurate as he could be arrogant, Allardyce responded by using his regular column in Zoo magazine to opine that people "were talking rubbish" about Newcastle's perceived lack of style.
If Mort and co may have been a little puzzled that their manager chose to earn extra cash from a lads' mag while boycotting the BBC in the wake of his disagreement with Panorama, the board were probably more concerned about Allardyce's burgeoning backroom staff.
Experts were recruited in every conceivable, and often avant garde, area of sports science, but some players privately queried the advice - not to mention numerous supplements - they were being given.
Having eaten bread and pasta during years spent terrorising full backs Damien Duff was told to omit such carbohydrates from his diet.
© 2008 The Irish Times
While I agree with your point, Emre has underperformed for Newcastle.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Emre has the technical ability to dictate a game but other than a few nice touches and flicks here and there, he consistently stays on the fringes of a game.
Having read the arguments for and against the potential appointment of Allardyce, I feel it boils down to this;
There are many Ireland fans who believe we have players of good technical ability and want to see good football delivered to them. Are supports of this theory (eirebhoy being one) willing to sacrifice qualification in favour of the side playing nice, attractive football, but ultimately unable to yield results.
The other side to this is that most feel Allardyce could indeed do a decent job for Ireland. But for a bad spell at Newcastle, and lets face it, he's not the only one to have struggled there, his track record is quite impressive. A sustained period of success with a side containg a few quality (Jasskelainen, Nolan, Ben Haim, Diouf), must mostly mediocre players (see Ireland), almost certainly ensure he would do a job with our national side. The question is whether this job, which may involve playing unattractive, long ball, vicious football, is worth sacrificing some of our more intelligent footballers.
My opinion, for what its worth is that I would prefer to be going to South Africa 2010, at whatever cost. We've had enough of failure, and we as fans deserve success, by whatever means possible.