Irish Sunderland fan here. Debate very interesting

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

Let me go thru your points one by one
1. South Dublin = Rovers. Let me state again. Noone I was friends with was interested in Shamrock rovers. So being a child I needed someone to bring me.Shamrock rvs were never on TV so that source of interest never came to me. However English soccer came thru Jimmy Hill and Dickie Davis for those old enough to remember. I loved soccer but did not support any team when I was younger. I had no reason. See above how my love of Sunderland came about.

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I mean South Dublin as in the administrative county i.e. where Tallaght is. Stillorgan would fall under UCD's theoretical sphere of influence now. I understand your story, but you're an adult now, you have freedom of travel and freedom to operate sensibly outwidth peer pressure.

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2. "our domestic game remains weak." It remains weak for many many reasons. The important of which is that the best players go to England. The influx of English TV (dont think of SKY, there are newbees, think BBC and ITV over the years), poor product, poor facilities and since the irish have got richer then dont accept bad facilities

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At the root of it all is a lack of interest from the Irish public. Your lack of interest and many like you ensures that the finances will never become available to change the facilities and the large TV money will never be forthcoming.

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3. "We have the necessary population to sustain a stronger league if the money and passengers that are funneled abroad to the UK to watch football over here remained here." So explain how your propose that should happen?

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By people like yourself not funneling your hard earned cash across the Irish sea but investing it in the local game.

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And does it really matter to you that much...:confused:

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It does actually. Maybe that's why I'm a supporter and you're a consumer.

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Originally Posted by soccerc

Are you involved with any club, schoolboy or junior in Dublin as a volunteer or player?

Do you go to Ireland international games?

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I was secretary for a UCL team playing in the southside for 2 years organizing the pitch,nets, insurance, getting the posts put up in the summer, calling players, attending disciplany meetings with David Flood barking orders at the top table (when he was in charge of the UCL)and a player for the club in both the UCL and amateur league from 1991 to 1999. Then I moved to a northside club for 1 year as a player. As for the Republic I last saw them in a friendly vs China at Landsdowne.

no its not even them sayin my team r crap its lik they luk down at me wen i say that i dont support an english team its jus mad

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Originally Posted by Tir Oilean

trip up the Dyke rd a few times.

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:eek:

lesbians?

:D

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

By people like yourself not funneling your hard earned cash across the Irish sea but investing it in the local game.
It does actually. Maybe that's why I'm a supporter and you're a consumer.

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I think that your arguments are lost on my generation of supporter but if you feel that you can influence the next generation I would feel that has some merit but the clubs need to go to the schools and the community in a much bigger way and in a much wider radius, offer free tickets, invite inward investment for a share of the club, run it with real business professionals, find a way to offer good contracts to players who want to go to England (a bit like Leinster in the Rugby). My generation is lost. The bug bit for me when I watched a game in a big stadium(anfield) watching very passionate supporters(sunderland) with great facilities.
The next generation are there for the taking but alot has to change. As for being a consumer then if it means paying for my ticket, my flight, my B and B then I am a consumer but I regard myself as a supporter as well and if you are a better supporter than me then fair play to you

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

Let me go thru your points one by one
1. South Dublin = Rovers. Let me state again. Noone I was friends with was interested in Shamrock rovers. So being a child I needed someone to bring me.Shamrock rvs were never on TV so that source of interest never came to me. However English soccer came thru Jimmy Hill and Dickie Davis for those old enough to remember. I loved soccer but did not support any team when I was younger. I had no reason. See above how my love of Sunderland came about.
2. "our domestic game remains weak." It remains weak for many many reasons. The important of which is that the best players go to England. The influx of English TV (dont think of SKY, there are newbees, think BBC and ITV over the years), poor product, poor facilities and since the irish have got richer then dont accept bad facilities

3. "We have the necessary population to sustain a stronger league if the money and passengers that are funneled abroad to the UK to watch football over here remained here." So explain how your propose that should happen?

4. "people like yourselves put no investment into it be that financial or emotional." - Again ask yourself why this is the case. Why are we choosing to go to watch football elsewhere. Remember that the majority of people who really support teams in the UK were brought by parents, family members or some local sports group. Why are there thousands of irish people members of supporters clubs in the uk?

And does it really matter to you that much...:confused:

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I'm sick of the 'poor product, poor facilities' argument!

Fans the world over watch crap football in questionable stadiums, and the reason they do is to support their local team.
It was probably handed down to them from their fathers though!

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

I think that your arguments are lost on my generation of supporter but if you feel that you can influence the next generation I would feel that has some merit but the clubs need to go to the schools and the community in a much bigger way and in a much wider radius, offer free tickets, invite inward investment for a share of the club, run it with real business professionals, find a way to offer good contracts to players who want to go to England (a bit like Leinster in the Rugby). My generation is lost. The bug bit for me when I watched a game in a big stadium(anfield) watching very passionate supporters(sunderland) with great facilities.
The next generation are there for the taking but alot has to change. As for being a consumer then if it means paying for my ticket, my flight, my B and B then I am a consumer but I regard myself as a supporter as well and if you are a better supporter than me then fair play to you

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Speaking of that I heard the UCD radio ad today.
They had a kid on last saying "......... part time school goer/student, full time UCD fan" (or something along those lines)! :D

Irishboy, while the future of domestic football relies more on captivating the youth of today to avert someone arriving at a situation where you have at this point in your life, it's not irreversible. I came through a similar situation as yourself, my passion being Celtic. I still love them and watch them at any opportunity on TV but with the freedom that comes with maturity I became encapsulated by domestic soccer and my local team. You're never too old to do so. Very few people will castigate you for having an interest or passion for a foreign club in addition (though a few will) but most of us just want people to take an interest in the domestic Irish game and with their added investment (in all senses) to push the game forward here. People could then enjoy a product of a high standard here without having to travel abroad to do so.

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Originally Posted by BohsFans

Speaking of that I heard the UCD radio ad today.
They had a kid on last saying "......... part time school goer/student, full time UCD fan" (or something along those lines)! :D

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That's possibly foot.ie's very own dmythdmandlegend.:D He must be a fair aul dosser alright.;)

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Originally Posted by BohsFans

I'm sick of the 'poor product, poor facilities' argument!

Fans the world over watch crap football in questionable stadiums, and the reason they do is to support their local team.
It was probably handed down to them from their fathers though!

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Exactly. The stadia in England weren't always the shiny seated theatres of today, I'm sure as a Sunderland "supporter" since 1981 you remember Roker Park Irishboy. I'm not saying it was LOI standard, but it was hardly Old Trafford was it. English people have never had this hang up about facilities, or standard of play. Let me put it to you this way Irishboy, when Sunderland were relegated, did you say "sod this lower division football lark, I'm following Liverpool from now on"? In my view Irish people use those arguments as an excuse, because supporting a local team, week in, week out, takes more committment than just sitting in front of the TV. Couple of final points Irish boy - have you seen any of the local games on TV this season ? Do you not think the standard of the game here has improved. Finally, has it ever occurred to you that if people like yourself (and I'm only really picking on you cause you stuck your head above the parapet) went to local games that the standard of play, and the facilities would gradually improve as more money came into the game ? It is possible to become hooked you know. I've only been a regular at Richmond Park for the last twelve or thirteen years. I'd only been to games sporadically before that. However, once you become emotionally involved with your "own" team(for want of a better phrase) there is nothing that comes close. Trust me, no English team could give you a similar feeling.

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

Very few people will castigate you for having an interest or passion for a foreign club in addition (though a few will) but most of us just want people to take an interest in the domestic Irish game and with their added investment (in all senses) to push the game forward here. People could then enjoy a product of a high standard here without having to travel abroad to do so.

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I often go to St. Annes park to watch amateur soccer and was involved for a few years as a secretary so I dont feel that I owe local soccer all that much to be honest. If Dundalk were playing in a big game then I have on occasion gone to watch them but I have limited resources and I want to see Sunderland at least once a season. I see where you are coming from but rather than people castigating the stay aways who may also be LOI fana you should focus your attention on the LOI clubs and suggest to them ways to allow people to come for example free for 1st visit

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Originally Posted by TonyD

I'm sure as a Sunderland "supporter" since 1981 you remember Roker Park Irishboy. ....Let me put it to you this way Irishboy, when Sunderland were relegated, did you say "sod this lower division football lark, I'm following Liverpool from now on"?

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I was in Roker Park but me following sunderland had nothing to do with facilities. It was circumstance. I supported them when they were relegated to div 3(now league 1) in 1987 by a tony cascarino goal for Gillingham.

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

where I grew up in Stillorgan. I was always interested in soccer and the GAA and my first LOI game was Shamrock rvs vs Dundalk. But none of my friends were interested in LOI.

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Popularity contest was it? It's not fashionable to support a LOI team so i won't?

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Originally Posted by skitz3

Popularity contest was it? It's not fashionable to support a LOI team so i won't.

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When you are 8 it usually is. Was it ever thus?

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Originally Posted by BohDiddley

What is new is the direct appeal of British clubs aggressively marketing in Ireland, and the hordes leaving this island every weekend to support British teams. It's not about patriotism or xenophobia or insulting Sunderland or other English fans, as some would like to portray it.

What's special about the Sunderland case is that Quinn also likes to portray himself as a supporter of the domestic game.

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I think this is what makes the Sunderland situation so different. They seem to be targeted at Irish people in the same way UK football sold to Asian countries. They will support whatever team is winning that year. Its no surprise Chelsea have large Chinese support. Who did the new Sunderland supporters follow before & who will they move to when the Sunderland ride is over?

Fair dues for irishboy99 posting & trying to defend his position. If I was to actually choose who to support free from geographic restrictions I would however choose a team that might actually win something. Why choose a team that will never win anything & stuck in what I would assume not the most picturesque region in England?

:confused:

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

I was in Roker Park but me following sunderland had nothing to do with facilities. It was circumstance. I supported them when they were relegated to div 3(now league 1) in 1987 by a tony cascarino goal for Gillingham.

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Why are you:

A) Posting on an Eircom League message board?

B) Proving your allegiance to Sundireland as if it will mean something to the posters here?

C) Posting on an Eircom league messageboard?

I think your trolling and not doing a very good job at it (your meant to leave the topic stew for a day or 2 then come back to it).

The people most foot.ie users hate are the "barstoolers" those who watch football on tv and mainly english PL football with the view that its the best thing ever (che vs liv both sides hoofing it in a CL semi final is blasphemous to good football). They completley disregard Irish football like the mate who says movie sucks without seeing it and thats god damn annoying in itself.

I dont want these people to go to EL games and i am glad they dont, they are clueless and will believe whatever andy gray tells them to believe. Tbh i dont ever think anyone on foot.ie will convert someone to go to an EL game when i read most of the above posts. From condescending to downright elitism but the point remains why are you posting an EL message board about Sundireland?


kdjac

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Originally Posted by irishboy99

When you are 8 it usually is. Was it ever thus?

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I supported a LOI team despite not knowing another person who did at the time because even as a 10 year the concept of supporting a team in another country was so outragously ridiculous,it wasn't even funny.

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Originally Posted by kdjaC

Why are you:

A) Posting on an Eircom League message board?

B) Proving your allegiance to Sundireland as if it will mean something to the posters here?

C) Posting on an Eircom league messageboard?

I think your trolling and not doing a very good job at it (your meant to leave the topic stew for a day or 2 then come back to it).

The people most foot.ie users hate are the "barstoolers" those who watch football on tv and mainly english PL football with the view that its the best thing ever (che vs liv both sides hoofing it in a CL semi final is blasphemous to good football). They completley disregard Irish football like the mate who says movie sucks without seeing it and thats god damn annoying in itself.

I dont want these people to go to EL games and i am glad they dont, they are clueless and will believe whatever andy gray tells them to believe. Tbh i dont ever think anyone on foot.ie will convert someone to go to an EL game when i read most of the above posts. From condescending to downright elitism but the point remains why are you posting an EL message board about Sundireland?


kdjac

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Read above why I am writing on the board. You obviously very quickly read thru the post. I am not proving my allegiance. The original post was on a sunderland website(see previous). As for stewing on it for a day or so I wanted to get my point across. Debate, argue. I dont need a few days to do this. BTW I am flying out tomorrow so I cant logon tomorrow. If people believe andy gray then far be for me to say if they are right or wrong.

Football is not a Product. If ypeople are so interested in products, then they should go down to Tesco and buy Toilet Duck or tampons or something.

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Originally Posted by skitz3

even as a 10 year the concept of supporting a team in another country was so outragously ridiculous,it wasn't even funny.

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You must never had BBC, ITV or a dad/uncle/brother/son who supported a team other than a LOI team. You were lucky. Also you assume that all PL supporters are dim. Actually many have played for Ireland at all levels. Your argument goes to those bar stoolers but why kill yourself over them. I dont.