The myth of we're just "happy to be there"

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Charlton had been a success as a league manager in the UK........
Mick McCarthy seems to know how to manage as well - Sunderland 2nd in the Championship.........John Giles was also our manager once - he had also done well as a manager in the UK. Jollyroger says the players had no idea of formations - Jack's team was one of the most regimented teams there ever has been. Every player knew the formation and knew their job in it.

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Charlton hadnt a clue about any of the players ability, everyone knew where to play and what to do because it was brutally simply.

Kick ball long into peno area, Head ball into net. Always kick ball forward !! He got results with his long ball but it was never proper football.

Mc Carthy and his team are grafters. He belongs somewhere between the priemer divison fighting relegation and top of the championship fighting for it. He does very well but he is not a winner.

Johnny Giles will be the first to tell you that he isnt cut out for management.

A good player doesnt make a good manager ! Kerr did a magnificant job at underage at European level. HE HAS WON THINGS. Also, he doesnt try to put Duff up front alongside Keane, when its clearly wrong. He brings players like Kavanagh in (who Mc Carthy or Charlton would never) to do a job for us. He moves Kilbane into the center and balances the whole of midfield out for us.

Mc Carthy could never get it right :rolleyes:

Did Barca not win the last match 2-1 and are they not top of the league in Spain. Did Ronaldinhio not win a World Cup in 2002. I do not think he is a clown but his a very effective footballer who also entertains in the same mould as Zidane and Maradona but has not reached the levels that the two of them reached.


I agree with a lot of your post otherwise. I would rather Barcelona any day of the week. I think the ideal is to win with flair which is what they do. Hope they do it tonight.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

FFS. All our results to date have been through an FA that is probably one of the most corrupt and badly managed in the world.

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You're having a laugh if you think our association is one of the most corrupt and badly managed in the world. Maybe one of the worst in western europe admittedly....

On the training, the nation as a whole has to take responsibility - only follow foreign teams, send our youngsters abroad from a young age, don't support domestic football to allow the system to develop here with academy's etc....

Personally don't think we've done any better than alright in the major tournaments. Certainly nothing to celebrate.

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Originally Posted by wws

groundless. we didnt qualify cause one of those **** teams beat us home and away - we had no right to be there - and as such we're no better than any of them that it - in fact it makes us worse

Ireland - along with Norway - one of the WORST teams in Italia 90 football wise. Fact!
USA - one decent game v Italy and that was the height of it
Korea/Japan - knocked out by the world cups perrenial **** "big" country = spain


awe inspiring record

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Norway didnt qualify in 1990.

I think he probably mean Norway in USA '94.

"Charlton hadn't a clue about the players' abilities "- 6th in the World ratings from around 90th in eight years. I suspect he must have known something.

As to our style of play - I couldn't care less how we play so long as we're successful.

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Like I said, soccer has never taken off until 1990. We just had a few lads making up the numbers and flying the flag. They werent professionals, they were just there for the beer and craic.

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just out of interest how old are you??

i grew up in the eighties made into football, pretty much like all kids around us, following the hype of division one in england. irish international crowds were down because the team was doing poorly at the time 86 qualifiers, but get a dvd of irish great matches etc., see the crowds there when we beat france in lansdowne, russia in dalymount etc. - football wasn't just introduced to ireland in 1990, its always been here, and its always been big. 1988 & 1990 just added more hype to it. the likes of brady stapleton, moran, giles, daly, givens etc., they were not just 'there for the beer and craic'

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Originally Posted by ColinR

just out of interest how old are you??

i grew up in the eighties made into football, pretty much like all kids around us, following the hype of division one in england. irish international crowds were down because the team was doing poorly at the time 86 qualifiers, but get a dvd of irish great matches etc., see the crowds there when we beat france in lansdowne, russia in dalymount etc. - football wasn't just introduced to ireland in 1990, its always been here, and its always been big. 1988 & 1990 just added more hype to it. the likes of brady stapleton, moran, giles, daly, givens etc., they were not just 'there for the beer and craic'

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Seconded.

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Did Barca not win the last match 2-1 and are they not top of the league in Spain. .........I would rather Barcelona any day of the week. I think the ideal is to win with flair which is what they do. Hope they do it tonight.

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Chelsea will win , if not, Ill eat my hat and you can rub it in tomorrow.

Im 100% certain that Chelsea will win.

Soccer was sold EN MASS to the Irish public at Italy '90, but we have always done very well. We were not very consistent and poor away from home but of course Im not writing off the achievements of the 80's and know about all the great games and '88.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Norway didnt qualify in 1990.

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Good God ure right! I miss Dolan related banter! His audios on the ccfc.ie are pure David Brent! This 'why cant ireland beat the swiss' vibe is lame in comparison.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But after you get knocked out, what's the point in brooding eternally about being knocked out? You said that the players and management celebrated losing to Spain, yet they were clearly all in tears and were gutted. Are you just going to let this blatant contradiction go?

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No, not after the match directly but later like in the cringeworthy Joe Duffy episode they were acting like heroes for loseing ffs. McAteers comments in his recent interview summed the mentality up.

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You also say the Germans' mentality is better than ours, again on the basis that we can appreciate what we've done after the event. Nothing matters after the event - it's our mentality during the event that counts, and I think we've shown time and time again that ours is up there with the best.

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If our mentality was up there with the best we'd have more than three (one on penaltys) in the world cup, it's not just to do with working hard and battling it's to do with belief and we've lacked it in the past.

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Premiership managers don't seem to agree with our assessments so I'm not sure they'll get on the benches of the top foreign international teams.

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You're making thigns up here, Finnan 'in and out' of the Liverpool side, eh? And what has Carr recently coming back from an injury got to do with his standing as an international footballer? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Slash/ED

No, not after the match directly but later like in the cringeworthy Joe Duffy episode they were acting like heroes for losing.

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But this is my point exactly. Who cares what they're saying afterwards? Are they supposed to brood over this for years and years? I don't see any harm in looking back happily at the World Cup after the event - it's part of the Irish way of life that we always have a positive outlook - as I said earlier, far better than the Brits always beating themselves up and gettin down in the dumps because they didn't win 5-0 in the final.

Immediately after the match, the players were in tears - this speaks more for their attitude than any silly radio call-in show can.

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jolly
Chelsea will win , if not, Ill eat my hat and you can rub it in tomorrow.

Im 100% certain that Chelsea will win.

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I knew it:). Barca play great football but Chelski are a team that grinds out wins.

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a huge insult to the likes of Carey, Giles, Whelan, Brady, Lawrenson etc. etc

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All legends, but what about the likes of Phil Baab ? Mc Ateer (apart from holland), and the rest of those muppets doin the starset and hutch rountine in Dublin. hardly pro's

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Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

I knew it:). Barca play great football but Chelski are a team that grinds out wins.

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In fairness Chelsea were very, very lucky. Barca were the better team.

I agree that Barca are the better team,they play better football but winning at sport and the spectacle are different. Very close in the end. no hat for me tomorrow: D

Barca really showed up how rigid inflexible (and stupid: P) 4-4-2 is. I hope things moves on with Ireland and kerr tries to change it permantly

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Originally Posted by davros

We won't win the World Cup next year(& probably never will)

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You can tell so much about someone by the fact that they don't like Roy Keane, they usually haven't a clue about much else either.

We can win the World Cup next year. We have the players, we have the team spirit, we have a tactically adept manager. If England, Germany, France or Italy had what we have, they would EXPECT to win the World Cup. We should be thinking along the same lines.

It doen't mean that we will win it, it just increases our chances greatly.

I'd be slightly surprised if we qualified tbh

Kerr's teams a la mccarthy cant beat the swiss ffs

also Duff and Morrisson are the only two truly effective players we can count on

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Originally Posted by wws

I'd be slightly surprised if we qualified tbh

Kerr's teams a la mccarthy cant beat the swiss ffs

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Kerr like, McCarthy and Charlton can't beat a half decent team away from home competitively. Didn't stop us qualifying on 3 previous occasions. :)

I think people should really get over this thing. Beating a top team away from hone in international football is a rare experience. As has been said here lots of times, We have only ever done it against the Scottish in living memory. I think Israle will count if we can beat them. Drawing away and beating them at home is the basis of a good qualifying campaign. I expect to win away but when we dont or if we draw you got to be realistic and say a point is a point.

Even Roy Keane who is put up there as the person who seems to be the spokesperson or represents those with high expectations of Irish football teams would say that sometimes a draw away from home you got to be content wit that. I think you should prepare to win but afterward if you have got a draw away from home you can take comfort that it is a decent result.

I'm only reacting to ridiculous comments like "we would have won the euros" blah blah blah - This Ireland squad as done nothing of consequence and are in for a hell of a fight to qualify - thats reality - and anyone using FIFA rankings to back up an argument hasnt a fckn clue. How can ppl argue we should have a winning mentality in major tournaments when in the next breath admit we cant win outside of dublin?????

Well I think u can have a winning mentality and also admit to the past that you haev not one much outside dubiln in qualifying against major teams. You will never win away from home unless u have the winning mentality. I would argue that you need the mentality first and then you go and get the 3 points second. However if you think that you should get the 3 points away from home first and then get the winning mentality that is your opinion. The best way of winning a match is preparing well, believing in yourself, Organise the team well on the pitch. Have a good team spirity. Have quality throughout the park and then do it on the pitch. As part of that you need believe that you will win it. If every team waited until they won, until they believed they could win, they woudl nto get very far.