'Final Deal' Will it be as big as GFA?

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10/12/2004, 12:50 PM
patsh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Oh here we go -so people "like me" can be impressed by the verbiage -what? like people "like you" can be impressed by sinn feins big bang gunshot boom boom noises?.

Of course I am, I always get taken in by the group who talk the loudest and longest...:rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

If you read my post I said the IRA is up to it's eyeballs in criminal activity and that the funds are finding their way to sinn fein -with whom of course it shares some members.

the Minister for Justice got his information from the garda siochana so there's little point in him telling them something they know only too well.

I DID read your post, it's a pity you don't pay the same attention to what is posted yourself.
Now I'll say it in plain simple English again.
YOUR quote: "highlighting that the IRA has been, continues to be and has no intention of ceasing being up to it's fcukin' eyeballs in criminal activity"
You are telling me that the Minister for Justice knows AND the Gardai know about these "facts". They are doing NOTHING about this, so the logical conclusion of your claim is that the Justice minister and the Gardai are tolerating criminal activity.
My claim is that the PDs talk but do nothing, and your claim proves me right.
10/12/2004, 1:00 PM
Lionel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsh

Of course I am, I always get taken in by the group who talk the loudest and longest...:rolleyes:

I DID read your post, it's a pity you don't pay the same attention to what is posted yourself.
Now I'll say it in plain simple English again.
YOUR quote: "highlighting that the IRA has been, continues to be and has no intention of ceasing being up to it's fcukin' eyeballs in criminal activity"
You are telling me that the Minister for Justice knows AND the Gardai know about these "facts". They are doing NOTHING about this, so the logical conclusion of your claim is that the Justice minister and the Gardai are tolerating criminal activity.
My claim is that the PDs talk but do nothing, and your claim proves me right.

Bull**** Patsh!!!! and well you know it. It's one thing to know full well that these people are blackguarding. it's quite another to gather a book of evidence that'll secure convictions against them. that's because our state rightly offers protections to those accused of criminality and ensures the burden of proof lies with the prosecutor. Unlike the IRA -who issue summary justice down darkened back alleys where they are judge, jury and executioner.
10/12/2004, 1:13 PM
patsh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Bull**** Patsh!!!! and well you know it. It's one thing to know full well that these people are blackguarding. it's quite another to gather a book of evidence that'll secure convictions against them. that's because our state rightly offers protections to those accused of criminality and ensures the burden of proof lies with the prosecutor.

Aha, so you don't believe in due legal process then?
It's perfectly OK for the Minister for Justice and self-proclaimed Greatest World Expert on the Law, EVER to ignore the innocent until proven guilty maxim, and bandy about accustions like snuff at a wedding.
Mr. PD obviously believes that its to better to publicly claim loudly they are guilty and imply he knows this becuase of information he has, so getting people to believe his guff, rather than test this same info in a court of Law.
Of course, he being the Expert he is, his novel idea of Justice is bound to catch on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Unlike the IRA -who issue summary justice down darkened back alleys where they are judge, jury and executioner.

I'm glad you posted yet another bad thing about the IRA, I don't really know much about them and the things they do.........
10/12/2004, 3:09 PM
Lionel Ritchie

I'm not going to argue that he is technically in the wrong for saying these things openly -for starters it could damage a prosecution and he should know better -BUT the gardai have pointed out that since McDowell flagged this up the RA, those brave heroes of Ireland, have drawn in their horns and lowered their profile considerably around dublin port. Don't want to be embarrassing Sinn fein at a crucial juncture maybe? :rolleyes:

I have to say by the way I find it hilariously ironic if it weren't so sickening to be lectured on 'due legal process' by someone who finds so little to be disgusted by in what the IRA have been up to for years in all our names.

I note by the way you'd no real smart arse comeback for my far from complete list of activities that could legitimatly earn the IRA a tag of being 'Bad' and 'Evil' so I'll give you a second opportunity to retort...

Quote:

blowing up children, murdering civilians, torturing victims, executing unarmed mothers, killing farmers who called the cops when they found weapons in their barnyard, "disapearring" people, intimidation, extorion, racketeering, smuggling and generally being parasitic gypstains on the underpants of the country
10/12/2004, 4:50 PM
patsh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

people "like you" can be impressed by sinn feins big bang gunshot boom boom noises

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I have to say by the way I find it hilariously ironic if it weren't so sickening to be lectured on 'due legal process' by someone who finds so little to be disgusted by in what the IRA have been up to for years in all our names.

I have to say by the way I find it hilariously ironic that, in your anxiety to spew out your whatever it is you claim to be trying to say, you don't actually read posts you are supposedly replying to. I also find your pop-psychology analysis of what I find disgusting/not disgusting or just who impresses me to be side-splittingly funny

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I note by the way you'd no real smart arse comeback for my far from complete list of activities that could legitimatly earn the IRA a tag of being 'Bad' and 'Evil' so I'll give you a second opportunity to retort...

I leave the "smart arse" comebacks to you. Those and continually listing all the bad things the IRA have done, pretty much sums up your entire contribution to this thread.
11/12/2004, 10:27 AM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I note by the way you'd no real smart arse comeback for my far from complete list of activities that could legitimatly earn the IRA a tag of being 'Bad' and 'Evil' so I'll give you a second opportunity to retort...

All depends where your from and what youve witnessed. You have witnessed feck all in terms of 'British State' Brutality and Loyalist death squads, so your perception of the IRA will always be one as potrayed by the biased media.

Maybe if you had witnessed a corrupt police force, the murder of Irish children (never promoted as much as careless IRA activities), and the daily harrassment of your people by sick paratroopers etc you might have had a different opinion on things.

Of course you would have lay down like a good croppie wouldnt you !
11/12/2004, 4:41 PM
JohnB

Quote:

Originally Posted by dortie

All depends where your from and what youve witnessed.

In common with the other paramilitary organistions that blight Northern Ireland, PIRA/Sinn Fein are a murderous bunch of criminals. Where you are from or what you have witnessed has little to do with it.

Making excuses for killers leads you down a very dodgy road. Were the LVF defending Ulster from republicans when they ordered taxis from catholic taxi firms and then shot the driver in the back of the head?
11/12/2004, 9:03 PM
liam88

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Making excuses for killers leads you down a very dodgy road. Were the LVF defending Ulster from republicans when they ordered taxis from catholic taxi firms and then shot the driver in the back of the head?

totally sick......just like Holy Cross........or murdering Robet Hmmil.......or Pat Finucaine in front of his family.......innocent human rights lawyer..........mourners at a funeral...

Then again the IRA blew up a banstand, a bustling Christmas shopping center and pubs in Birmingham among others...

All terrible stuff (and RIP ALL the victims).....all terrible stuff that could soon have come to an end.........but oh no.....Mr. P*isley's name pops up again!

No more murders-no more Paisley
12/12/2004, 11:22 AM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnB

Making excuses for killers leads you down a very dodgy road. Were the LVF defending Ulster from republicans when they ordered taxis from catholic taxi firms and then shot the driver in the back of the head?

If the PIRA had the same strategy and tactics as the LVF there would be no protestants left alive.

So, I dont consider them in the same category, if thats what your asking.
12/12/2004, 6:41 PM
JohnB

Quote:

Originally Posted by liam88

totally sick......just like Holy Cross........or murdering Robet Hmmil.......or Pat Finucaine in front of his family.......innocent human rights lawyer..........mourners at a funeral...

Then again the IRA blew up a banstand, a bustling Christmas shopping center and pubs in Birmingham among others...

All terrible stuff (and RIP ALL the victims).....all terrible stuff that could soon have come to an end.........but oh no.....Mr. P*isley's name pops up again!

No more murders-no more Paisley

I wouldn't argue with any of that.
12/12/2004, 6:51 PM
JohnB

Quote:

Originally Posted by dortie

If the PIRA had the same strategy and tactics as the LVF there would be no protestants left alive.

So, I dont consider them in the same category, if thats what your asking.

What a poor post. Are you really saying that PIRA are some sort of ultra-efficient killing machine that, should they choose to, could kill as many protestants as they want?

As for your second sentence, it's the usual ****e that's trotted out by extremists, apologists and, frankly rather sad individuals on both sides of the divide in NI.
13/12/2004, 10:15 AM
Lionel Ritchie

Quote:

Originally Posted by patsh

I leave the "smart arse" comebacks to you. Those and continually listing all the bad things the IRA have done, pretty much sums up your entire contribution to this thread.

Actually Patsh if you read back you'll find it was yourself who brought up the IRA. I merely responded to what I felt was an simplistic, unhelpful carricature you painted of the DUP and its support.

I don't think Paisley has offered a shred of leadership to his people down the years. He has been guilty of incitement, has flirted with paramilitarism himself, has scaremongered and is I believe, in his heart, a supremacist who believes his Britishness and Protestantism makes him a better person than his Irish-Nationalist-Catholic neighbours. Though I doubt it's even worth repeating my attitude to him or his party as I'm apparently a DUP/FCP lover because I think the IRA are criminals, thugs and murderers.

As for the IRA I'm glad the likes of Adams and McGuinness have seen the light and are trying to move as much as possible of the organisation away from that behaviour.
I'm glad that the IRA appear to be close to closing down and fcuking off.
I'm glad they are apparently serious about persuing their goals through politics.
That doesn't mean I think they're nice guys, heroes or are even to be applauded for stopping doing something they shouldn't have been doing in the first place.

Quote:

Maybe if you had witnessed a corrupt police force, the murder of Irish children (never promoted as much as careless IRA activities), and the daily harrassment of your people by sick paratroopers etc you might have had a different opinion on things.

Of course you would have lay down like a good croppie wouldnt you !

Dortie the corrupt police force is gone -and if Sinn Fein would sign up to policing they could help make sure it could never come back.
I acknowledge the hardships endured by my fellow Irish nationalists -but not they nor anyone else has a right to resort to the sick carry on the glorious IRA did in response. And no this croppy would not lie down -I'd like to think I'd have done what John Hume did, what Seamus Mallon did and many more like them who took on a corrupt system with a ballot box in one hand and a manifesto in the other.
13/12/2004, 1:04 PM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Dortie the corrupt police force is gone -and if Sinn Fein would sign up to policing they could help make sure it could never come back.
I acknowledge the hardships endured by my fellow Irish nationalists -but not they nor anyone else has a right to resort to the sick carry on the glorious IRA did in response. And no this croppy would not lie down -I'd like to think I'd have done what John Hume did, what Seamus Mallon did and many more like them who took on a corrupt system with a ballot box in one hand and a manifesto in the other.

Its not gone, the uniform and badge have changed, thats it. The media really does do a great Job on you people.
So tell me, what did the SDLP achieve in terms of the unification of Ireland ?
Theres no doubting John Humes contribution to the economy up here, particularly Derry in terms of attracting employment, but tell me what the SDLP has achieved in Joining the policing board ?
14/12/2004, 7:08 AM
patsh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I merely responded to what I felt was an simplistic, unhelpful carricature you painted of the DUP and its support.

:rolleyes:
My "carricature" is quite accurate, from both personal experience and the writings, opinions and experience of many others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I don't think Paisley has offered a shred of leadership to his people down the years. He has been guilty of incitement, has flirted with paramilitarism himself, has scaremongered and is I believe, in his heart, a supremacist who believes his Britishness and Protestantism makes him a better person than his Irish-Nationalist-Catholic neighbours.

Well thats quite a simplistic, and very unhelpful carricature you have painted of Mr. Paisley......or maybe not.
Maybe you think your "opinions" are somehow "sophisticated" while others are "simplistic". But then maybe you think phrases like "flirted with paramilitarism" and "scaremongered" are sophisticated, while the simplistic, but completely accurate and true phrases should be, "was heavily involved in the organisation and arming of paramilitaries" and "promoted extreme hate and fear".
Interesting to see you can be so blunt and honest about the IRA, but you adopt the usual media-speak of cloaking Paisley in much softer language and euphemism....:rolleyes:

We can all see yet again, Paisley and his ilk do anything they can to worm out of having to treat "nationalists" or Catholics as equal citizens. It's amazing how this creep can say ANYTHING at all about whomsoever he likes, but NOBODY must dare say anything he decides he doesn't like. Or maybe thats too simplistic an analysis?
14/12/2004, 10:37 AM
Lionel Ritchie

Quote:

Interesting to see you can be so blunt and honest about the IRA, but you adopt the usual media-speak of cloaking Paisley in much softer language and euphemism....

If I'm being so "blunt and honest" about the IRA does that mean you concede that they've butchered their way through the innocent to force a deal? :rolleyes:

As for using softer language with Paisley -the fact is the only thing he's ever been convicted of is a couple of public order offences.
That's not to say I don't agree with much of what you say about him. He's shared many meetings with men with berets, sunglasses and handlebar taches ...couldn't have painted himself as the great victor of the UWC in 74 without them.

Quote:

We can all see yet again, Paisley and his ilk do anything they can to worm out of having to treat "nationalists" or Catholics as equal citizens. It's amazing how this creep can say ANYTHING at all about whomsoever he likes, but NOBODY must dare say anything he decides he doesn't like. Or maybe thats too simplistic an analysis?

Slightly -though there's an amount of truth in there. His major grief is with sharing power with armed republicans/Sinn Fein as opposed to treating nationalists/catholics as equal citizens. Though I don't believe (and maybe I'm being simplistic) that he or his DUP are serious about or keen on power sharing with anyone.
If you read between the lines with their policies they clearly favour simple, blunt majority rule -and as that's a no-brainer to fail -London rule.

Quote:

Its not gone, the uniform and badge have changed, thats it. The media really does do a great Job on you people.
So tell me, what did the SDLP achieve in terms of the unification of Ireland ?

Dortie -it's far from perfect and not nearly enough of Patten was taken up. but it's a bloody decent start. They couldn't just fire 13,000 people and start again. The SDLP internationalised the problem -helped bring the USA and it's presidents (who the UK didn't want within an asses roar of it) into the equation, by dragging SF in from their pop-guns and fertiliser and by getting people talking to each other. Now what did the IRA achieve in terms of the unification of Ireland? (beyond making sure it'll be unlikely to happen in our life time)

Quote:

Theres no doubting John Humes contribution to the economy up here, particularly Derry in terms of attracting employment, but tell me what the SDLP has achieved in Joining the policing board ?

Applications to the PSNI from the nationalist community are making up about a quarter (and rising) of all applications. Still too little but progress by any measure.
14/12/2004, 3:49 PM
patsh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

If I'm being so "blunt and honest" about the IRA does that mean you concede that they've butchered their way through the innocent to force a deal? :rolleyes:

Apparently you are still not reading posts...
WHERE have I defended the IRA, their actions, their history or their members?
14/12/2004, 4:07 PM
liam88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

what did the IRA achieve in terms of the unification of Ireland? (beyond making sure it'll be unlikely to happen in our life time)

Not defending them in anyway but i hardly think that their murders slowed it down at all.....the loyalists were doing a good enough job of that before the IRA came on the London scene
14/12/2004, 5:13 PM
liam88

Yeah fair balls Conor I didn't get that across right.......stupid post :rolleyes:
17/12/2004, 12:46 PM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvio

Ever hear of the B-specials, Shankill Butchers, Brian Nelson, Mad Dog adair, Ulster Resistance. Billy Wright, the parachute regiment, A Protestant State for a Protestant people, Conor Cruise O'Brian...

Nah, they all think the IRA grew out of somebodies imagination.
17/12/2004, 1:12 PM
patsh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silvio

Ever hear of the B-specials, Shankill Butchers, Brian Nelson, Mad Dog adair, Ulster Resistance. Billy Wright, the parachute regiment, A Protestant State for a Protestant people, Conor Cruise O'Brian...

Is it at all possible that people who contribute to threads like this realise one thing? I'm pretty sure that it can be taken for granted that posters know just how bad the IRA/UDA/UVF etc are, and all about their past deeds. Surely it's not really necessary to list them as some sort of "proof"?

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