'Final Deal' Will it be as big as GFA?

**liam88** · 07/12/2004, 5:52 PM

Will a final deal in the North over the next couple of weeks be as big and as groundbreaking a move towards peace as the GFA?
As far as I understand it the 3 main factors are restoration of devolution, demiliterisation and decommissioning of IRA arms.
I'm presuming the people to put pen-to-paper will be Bertie, Blair, Adams and Paisley (open to correction-i'm trying to get an overview of it).
Possibility of prisoners being released being dicussend on the other thread-I think an equally imnportant question as should they be released is will they be released.....presumbley that ball rests in the court of Bertie Ahern and FF?
Demiliterisation will bring the troops levels out there to (open to correction) the lowest since 1969.
What I'm a bit confused about is why is there a much bigger pressure on the IRA to disarm than the UDA?

**Fair_play_boy** · 07/12/2004, 9:53 PM

Originally Posted by liam88

What I'm a bit confused about is why is there a much bigger pressure on the IRA to disarm than the UDA?

A ton of semtex is probably the answer to that. The UDA does not have high explosives AFAIK.

**dortie** · 08/12/2004, 9:07 AM

Originally Posted by liam88

What I'm a bit confused about is why is there a much bigger pressure on the IRA to disarm than the UDA?

Exactly they are still 'armed' to the teeth and are never even mentioned.

**Macy** · 08/12/2004, 9:15 AM

Originally Posted by dortie

Exactly they are still 'armed' to the teeth and are never even mentioned.

It's one of the great mysteries to me why Sinn Fein don't make more of that fact.

**Rovers Fellow!** · 08/12/2004, 9:54 AM

Hugh Orde, the head of ruc//psni, has recently stated that the UDA are likely to split. That is a very worrying development, but typically its been swept under the carpet. Im sure adams and co bring up the UDA issue in the talks. The UDA have been actively murdering catholics and its own people in recent years and of course behind continuing sectarian attacks on nationalist areas, including the school few years ago. Its sickening that they almost always get away with it. Its well known that many of them are british agents anyway.

**drinkfeckarse** · 08/12/2004, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

It's one of the great mysteries to me why Sinn Fein don't make more of that fact.

Have to say myself, I always wondered why the big deal about the I.R.A. disarming was always mentioned but never the U.D.A etc.

Never really asked in case I had missed something stupid.

Abviously not.

It's a valid point if you ask me.

**liam88** · 08/12/2004, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

Never really asked in case I had missed something stupid.

Abviously not.

Exactly!
Well that eejit pa*sley has just fe*ked any hope of deal with his push to "Smash Sinn Fein" and make Republicans "wear sack-cloth and ashes".......what a dick!

Peace and paisley......the two words just on't seem to go together

Aye strange that Cahtolics still being murdered by the UDA in the North and nothing on UK news but ya can bet your last Euro that if a Protestant, RUC Officer or British soldier was murdered by the IRA it's be front-page stuff

**drinkfeckarse** · 08/12/2004, 3:20 PM

I think Paisley has always been a bit of a laughing stock really although what's worrying is the amount of support he now commands.

I never really had a problem with Trimble as such but Paisley has always been a figure of fun to me.

**liam88** · 08/12/2004, 5:32 PM

9:00 Joint government statement
10:00 IRA statement "All IRA voulentters have been given specific insturctions not to engage in any activity which might thereby endanger the new agreement"
11:00 IICD statement
12:00 DUP statement
13:00 SF statement on policing
14:30 Prime Ministers hold press conference in Belfast (announcing endgame)

That was the plan for today. PEace could have been secured tonight.....put Paisley comes out with his "sack cloth and ashes" crap and screws the deal!
Most people on our island want peace now but it's NEVER going to work with this eejit!

**Jon'o** · 08/12/2004, 6:08 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Am I the only one thinking 'why couldn't the IRA manage one fecking photograph'? I mean, if they SAID they were doing it, an old picture wouldn't have been too hard surely? I accept that Paisley is a stumbling block, and a ****** too, but the fact that an illegal organisation continues to hold a lot of guns for the purposes of killing is also relevant - Paisley isn't doing all this for the craic...

yeah but ONE photo would not be enough for paisley, he would prob come out with some sh*te that there were more weapons.... cant win either way he's just there to wreck things GIT

**patsh** · 08/12/2004, 7:19 PM

Originally Posted by Conor74

Am I the only one thinking 'why couldn't the IRA manage one fecking photograph'? I mean, if they SAID they were doing it, an old picture wouldn't have been too hard surely?

I think the same way, but Paisley has asked for a hell of a lot more than a photograph. Whatever, I think deep down that the DUP are not ready yet to accept croppies about the place. I'm disgusted that the IRA couldn't agree to the event being filmed, because I think when it came down to it, Paisley simply would have found some other excuse, and at last the world could see that he is every bit as bad and, to use the current word in vogue, "evil" as the IRA.

**sylvo** · 08/12/2004, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

Have to say myself, I always wondered why the big deal about the I.R.A. disarming was always mentioned but never the U.D.A etc.

Never really asked in case I had missed something stupid.

Abviously not.

It's a valid point if you ask me.

Not forgetting the ten's of thousands of leagally held firearms held by Unionists, I have not heard anything about them being asked to hand them in or show pictures of them being destroyed.

**A face** · 08/12/2004, 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

It's one of the great mysteries to me why Sinn Fein don't make more of that fact.

I always though it was a "pot calling kettle" thing, in that ... if they go pointing the finger then they'll have to be seen to stopping all activity themselves. They would be committing themselves !!

**A face** · 09/12/2004, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Jon'o

yeah but ONE photo would not be enough for paisley, he would prob come out with some sh*te that there were more weapons.... cant win either way he's just there to wreck things GIT

Of course one photo wouldn't be enough. What is wanted/needed to prove that weapons are put beyond use would be a full record of it and some sort of tangible proof. In fairness ... for all his ramblings, Paisley doesn't want pics to look at ... its the whole weapons not ever being used again side of it that he is getting at.

Paisley mouth has always caused trouble, no one is new to that. It just to see who takes the baite and gets all agro over it.

**Pat O' Banton** · 09/12/2004, 4:12 AM

Why does Paisley need photos? Is the word of an international monitoring board not good enough for him? We all know that he wants the photos so he can turn around and say 'look I got this done the UUP couldn't and it was me who humiliaeted the fenians' I don't exactly understand why anyone thinks the IRA are in the business of handing the DUP more votes.

Moreover Paisley knows that this will not be agreed to and lets face it he's getting on, does he really want his political tombstone to say 'i shared power with Sinn Fein'?

**dortie** · 09/12/2004, 9:12 AM

Why should the IRA surrender its arms when the British Army are still heavily present, helicopters, fortifications, mobile patrols. Why should the IRA disarm when the UFF and UVF still have their weapons. Why should the IRA disarm when Unionists have legally held guns ?

Paisley simply wants a complete surrender from the IRA.

**fosterdollar** · 09/12/2004, 9:27 AM

Paisley is just being his usual provocative contrary self. It's such a shame that he's the one holding the majority vote on the UNionist side. IMO Sinn Fein do not want to provide a series of photographs because inevitably they will be used as cavassing material for the DUP in the future and waved in people's faces as the 'monstrous cache from IRA's evil operations'. Fact is, an international committee would oversee the decommissiong along with members of protestant and catholic clergy. Their word should be proof enough that the decommissioning happened. FFS photographs can be doctored and constructed far easier than neutral by-standers. It obvious why the DUP want the photos - and it has absolutely nothing to do with having proof of decommissioning.

**liam88** · 09/12/2004, 9:36 PM

Exactly-the git ADMITTED that he wanted to "humilate" the IRA and Republicans all over........we'll never have peace with him aroind.
Gerry Adams, much as i'm not his biggest fan-i have to say that he had grown up and realised he's to old to be playing soldiers....Paisley is still singing 'no surrender' post-1998

Someone needs to tell him it's over it's time to end-Gerry Adams admits it's the end of the day and the suns going down on this conflict.......when is Paisley going to accept this?

**�anna** · 09/12/2004, 9:58 PM

Originally Posted by liam88

Paisley is still singing 'no surrender' post-1998

at least Paisley is being honest. you know where you stand with him. Trimble pretended to be diplomatic and compromising, when in reality he just didn't have the

to say what he thought. Trimble was as bad as any DUP bigot, as McGuinness said they just "don't want a fenian about the place."

As for the issue of why there's no pressure on the UDA etc to disarm, the argument is totally straightforward as far as I can see. the IRA are linked to Sinn F�in. SF want into government. The deal is that they don't get into government while the IRA has guns. The UDA (or any other loyalist paramilitary group) are not linked to either the DUP or the UUP (at least not in the way SF and the IRA are) so it doesn't come into it. I'm sure if any of the smaller loyalist parties which "represent" loyalist paramilitaries wanted to form part of the government they'd be told the same. It is a valid point in fairness, much as I hate saying it. Of course demilitarisation should happen in tandem with this, and there should NOT be an attempt to humiliate anyone, but I think the time has come for the IRA to take the moral high ground and do whats needed- they'd gain a lot of respect for it.

**Longfordian** · 09/12/2004, 10:15 PM

They'd gain a lot of repect from people outside their party/organisation but not from within it by all accounts which would seem to be the major barrier.