Squad for Cyprus?

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Originally Posted by Jicked

We're too defensive and boring, yet Miller should be dropped for flamboyant players like Lee Carsley.
Trap never takes a risk on young players, yet Morisson should be in ahead of Best.
We need more experience, get Stephen Carr in for Foley.
Whoever's not in the squad is the answer, St Ledger out, O'Dea in.
etc. etc. etc.

When listening to Irish fans talk about squad selection I'm always reminded of the immortal words of Roger Myers Jr: "So, you want a realistic, down-to-earth show... that's completely off-the-wall and swarming with magic robots?

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Millers inclusion is embarassing and anything else is just an excuse for you to be loud. I have to say i have noticed that the only time you rear your head on this site is when someone questions or criticises a Trappatoni decision.

The post i have quoted is an example of you just posting for the sake of it - one poster mentioned Carsley and Carr, maybe a few have called for Morrisson to return, the rest is just childish garbage. Youre using this Miller issue to have a go at "Irish fans"? :rolleyes:

Miller should not be in that squad.

Trap bases his squad selections on performances for Ireland. Club form may get you a call-up to the squad, but ultimately whether you stay or not is usually down to what you do for him.

Love him or hate him, Miller was very impressive against Nigeria.

Personally, I probably wouldn't have him in the squad as he doesn't have a club, but I think we're making a bigger deal of this than is necessary.

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

Trap bases his squad selections on performances for Ireland. Club form may get you a call-up to the squad, but ultimately whether you stay or not is usually down to what you do for him.

Love him or hate him, Miller was very impressive against Nigeria.

Personally, I probably wouldn't have him in the squad as he doesn't have a club, but I think we're making a bigger deal of this than is necessary.

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I dont think this has been made that big a deal of at all, as fans we have every right to question why a player that cannot be fit let alone match fit is in the squad. Can you imagine what the media reaction would be in England, Spain or Italy would be if their manager picked a player that wasnt able to find himself a club

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Millers inclusion is embarassing and anything else is just an excuse for you to be loud. I have to say i have noticed that the only time you rear your head on this site is when someone questions or criticises a Trappatoni decision.

The post i have quoted is an example of you just posting for the sake of it - one poster mentioned Carsley and Carr, maybe a few have called for Morrisson to return, the rest is just childish garbage. Youre using this Miller issue to have a go at "Irish fans"? :rolleyes:

Miller should not be in that squad.

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I agree with you here. It was not so long ago that he was jumping down peoples neck when the name of St Ledger was mentioned for a inclusion in the squad.. Football forums are all about opinions and sometimes it would be nice to make a suggestion without some auld grumpy know it all accusing you of pulling a team off football manager cd. If its argued constructively then fine.

We have a very limited team and we have punched way above our weight to get where we are including a lot of luck. We have only one way of playing and teams have copped onto this as I am sure Cyprus have. We have no player to change the game. All our replacements are a like for like replacement to the first team. Keith Fahey or Andy Reid would be ideal in this role. Instead we have Liam Miller.Kilbane should not be playing. How many mistakes does this man have to make before Trapp see’s this? If a player is in form for his club i.e. Clinton Morrison he should be given an opportunity. He is a better option than Leon Best imho

We are very near to qualifying for the playoffs and we need as much help as we can to do so but I really can see us beating Cyprus unless we have one or two players who are capable of doing this.

I don't buy into this "limited team" stuff. Not that many international sides have the sort out talent pool we've got. The fact is we're limiting ourselves more than is necessary by not looking at players in our trouble positions. Look at the wealth of talent we've got coming through at CM. Yet, we're still picking a guy that's only impressed in one friendly in his entire Irish career and hasn't got a club.

The only jumping down people's throat around St Ledger I was doing was when the likes of thedoc was saying, and seemingly genuinely believing, the entire management team should be sacked because St Ledger wasn't in the squad. My point is that picking the likes of Morisson isn't wortwhile. He's not young, not a great player, doesn't offer anything different in particular. Yes he's in good form, but thats only three games. we should pick a settled squad and create a club type atmosphere instead of chopping and changing every squad beceause in the meantime someone has scored a hat-trick in the meantime.


And for what its worth from yesterday's press conference Trap made the point I've been making on here. People see a guys name on the teamsheet of Team X and automatically think he's the answer to all our problems. It's a little harsh on McCann, but you can see the point he's making.

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Did they (Fahey and McCann) not have a case for inclusion? “You knows these players?” he asked his questioner.
“Yes.”
“Chris McCann? Which position would you play him in?”
“Centre midfield or on the left.”
“How many games have you seen these players? McCann, against Manchester United, he touched the ball four times in 90 minutes. Did you see the game?”
“Yes.”
“I saw the game two times. Maybe we look at it together? I am not focusing on him in particular, but this player, for example, does not have the same qualities or characteristics as, say, (Glenn) Whelan, (Keith) Andrews, Gibson, Reid or Miller.”

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So as Trap says you'd be taking out Miller and putting in a new style of player, so if we were forced to play him due to injuries, we'd have to change our style or carry someone. If it was Stephen Ireland we'd rightly do it and change the system, but I don't think McCann is worth taking that gamble for, Fahey either. If we make it to the World Cup we'd then have 8 months and 5 or 6 friendlies to try some things, right now we've got to keep clawing our way to South Africa.

Also, there goes the whole argument of Trap not knowing who the other options are or bothering to watch games, he thought O'Shea and McCann's performances against Burnley so mesmerising that he sat through it twice!

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I have to say i have noticed that the only time you rear your head on this site is when someone questions or criticises a Trappatoni decision.

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Well I'm not in the LoI forum because I got a one week ban about a month ago, and since I travel to Ireland games a lot of the time I'm not always on to give my opinion of a particular game, so the biggest story when I'm online is usually the squad selection. I'm not going to Nicosia though so I'll be happy to be the grumpy old man on here for that one! You should see me at the games, scowling at everyone who hurls abuse at Robbie Keane for supposedly being rubbish...

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

Nolan was the starting left-full for Preston during the second-half of last season, so while he is right-footed (as John O'Shea is), he does have experience in that position.

I think Ward at Wolves is the logical choice to try out at some stage, and the South Africa friendly would have been an ideal time to test him out.

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Finnan should also be back after the Cyprus/South Africa game and has played left back for us in the past. I'd be happy that Finnan, Kilbane and Nolan could see us through this campaign. And as I've already said it'd just be too cruel not to give Kilbane two more caps to make his 100!

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Did they (Fahey and McCann) not have a case for inclusion? “You knows these players?” he asked his questioner.
“Yes.”
“Chris McCann? Which position would you play him in?”
“Centre midfield or on the left.”
“How many games have you seen these players? McCann, against Manchester United, he touched the ball four times in 90 minutes. Did you see the game?”
“Yes.”
“I saw the game two times. Maybe we look at it together? I am not focusing on him in particular, but this player, for example, does not have the same qualities or characteristics as, say, (Glenn) Whelan, (Keith) Andrews, Gibson, Reid or Miller.”

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If Trap is seriously suggesting that McCann doesn't deserve a place in the squad over the likes of Whelan who's sh*t and Miller then I'm more worried than before and I'm starting to doubt his sanity. No doubt when he actually has a look at McCann and Fahey and brings them tentatively into the squad they'll suddenly become excellent players and replace two of the above in a similar manner to St Ledger.

What worries me Jicked the way you're talking you would think we are walking the group and have looked the part all the way through qualification. The truth of the matter is we've been for the most part lucky in a p*ss poor group and as soon as we get beaten and lose our hope of qualification (we've been lucky thus far on numerous occasions in this qualification) people like you jump out of the woodwork and only then and start slating the manager when the warning signs could be seen a mile off.

I for one cringe at the thought of fielding the likes of Whelan, Folan, Miller and Kilbane in a world cup game if we've a few injuries. They are poor players and anyone who knew anything about football can spot that a mile off.

We have players doing better for their teams in the same league as some of those players above and need to be looked at quickly. Miller is a waste of a number in the Irish squad always has been always will be and won't be match fit if called upon. Remember the game is still 2 weeks off an injury to Whelan or Andrews and he could be staking a claim for a start.

For my closing point have a little thought about this. Remember that shocking performance against Australia with Trap suggesting it was due to a lack of sharpness as our players hadn't played any football this season? Well by the same token Nolan, Gibson, Kilbane and Miller will still lack that same oh so important sharpness come our competitive Cyprus game because they will have still played no football by then.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Finnan should also be back after the Cyprus/South Africa game and has played left back for us in the past. I'd be happy that Finnan, Kilbane and Nolan could see us through this campaign. And as I've already said it'd just be too cruel not to give Kilbane two more caps to make his 100!

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When Finnan comes back he will play RB with JOS moving to CB with Dunne and KK at LB.

Thats a strong back four, all of whom have played in the Premiership, so you can't argue with that.

St Ledger will be seen as a long term replacement at CB as he gains more experience, but will have to wait for his chance, unless of course JOS is played at LB.

Getting to the World Cup Finals is what matters for now.

Either way it's good competition.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

If Trap is seriously suggesting that McCann doesn't deserve a place in the squad over the likes of Whelan who's sh*t and Miller then I'm more worried than before and I'm starting to doubt his sanity. No doubt when he actually has a look at McCann and Fahey and brings them tentatively into the squad they'll suddenly become excellent players and replace two of the above in a similar manner to St Ledger.

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Whelan hasn't been "sh*t" for us in this campaign, he's done his job pretty well. There's no way you could describe him as being 'sh*t' if he had been, considering he's played every minute of the campaign we simply wouldn't have picked up so many points.

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What worries me Jicked the way you're talking you would think we are walking the group and have looked the part all the way through qualification.

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There is no way, at all, that we'd walk this group. With the players we have, and the fact we're in a squad with the World Champions, the best anyone could have expected from us was to be where we are now. Looking very good to all but secure a play-off place with two games to spare, and with a shout of taking first place by beating Italy at home (as difficult as that may be). After the last 2008 qualifier in Cardiff, did you really expect us to be in a better position than that with three games to go in this campaign?

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I for one cringe at the thought of fielding the likes of Whelan, Folan, Miller and Kilbane in a world cup game if we've a few injuries. They are poor players and anyone who knew anything about football can spot that a mile off.

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Come on, if you think they're poor players then that's one thing. But if you can find me a replacement for each who is in a different class then I'd be amazed. Do you really think Whelan is poor, but Chris McCann (2 Premier League games for minnows Burnley) is in a different league?? I don't mean to have a go at McCann, but there's no way he or Fahey are a different class to someone like Whelan. If you wanted to argue that one would be a slightly better option than the other then that is one thing, I'd disagree and strongly disagree on the basis of how the squad should line out, but to suggest Whelan is a nothing player but McCann or Fahey is International class is ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

Come on, if you think they're poor players then that's one thing. But if you can find me a replacement for each who is in a different class then I'd be amazed. Do you really think Whelan is poor, but Chris McCann (2 Premier League games for minnows Burnley) is in a different league?? I don't mean to have a go at McCann, but there's no way he or Fahey are a different class to someone like Whelan. If you wanted to argue that one would be a slightly better option than the other then that is one thing, I'd disagree and strongly disagree on the basis of how the squad should line out, but to suggest Whelan is a nothing player but McCann or Fahey is International class is ludicrous.

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I'd suggest you know little about McCann or Fahey in the same way you slagged off St Ledger when it was suggested he would be a better alternative to Bruce and McShane using the same arguments as above without knowing anything about him. Fact is none of them are world class but Whelan is a sh*t Premiership player who won't get more than a handful of games for his club team this season while McCann and Fahey are 2 of the better players for their respective teams in the same league. Are we replacing sh*t with world class? No. But replacing sh*t with at least average is a step up in my opinion. Our central midfield has been shocking this campaign once Reid got injured and Andrews is a better player than Whelan so do the maths.

McCann was also a better player than Whelan in the Championship 2 seasons ago so I'd be fairly certain he's still better now.

For god's sake, what I said about St Ledger was that the huge fuss being kicked up about him was way over the top. I haven't changed that opinion, I don't think there's a huge huge difference between St Ledger and Bruce. St Ledger did well in Sofia and I was delighted for him. As thedoc even says above he's not in contention for a starting role yet, and his performance against Australia wasn't very good. Simiarly if Bruce was put in I'd be confident he could dig out a big performance like St Ledger did in Sofia, or McShane did against Czech Republic, but obviously isn't going to be a great option to start in this campaign.

I'd wager that I've seen Fahey far more than you have. He's a good player. He's Premier League quality and I'll be delighted to see him do well there. But he's not in a different class to Whelan.
Whelan plays a different role, one which is more useful to this team. We've gone to Cyprus and places like that with attacking midfielders like Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland and been overrun. If we put in Fahey and McCann that's exactly what would happen. Since Fahey isn't in a different class to Whelan, he's not worth putting in and messing up the balance of the midfield for. Stephen Ireland would be worth messing up that defensive balance for because he simply offers so much.

Bruce is doing well at Ipswich by all accounts.
If we had a sure bet at RB, then O'Shea probably would start at CM alongside Dunne with Ledger being broken in more gently.

I wonder will KK hang on to his starting place?

“How many games have you seen these players? McCann, against Manchester United, he touched the ball four times in 90 minutes. Did you see the game?”

Did Trap really say this? That's a stupid thing to say and I hope McCann doesn't see this quote.

He played 19 passes, 17 succesful. That's not a lot but it was backs to the walls against a world class team.
3 interceptions, 5 tackles, 2 clearances, won 1 freekick.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/chalkboards/create

I do think McCann could be a lot more dominant, same as James McCarthy, but it's no good for Trap to be exaggerating like that. Especially when Glen Whelan had the exact same amount of touches that night against Liverpool and Andrews had less at home to Man City.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

“How many games have you seen these players? McCann, against Manchester United, he touched the ball four times in 90 minutes. Did you see the game?”

Did Trap really say this? That's a stupid thing to say and I hope McCann doesn't see this quote.

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It would be a ridiculously stupid quote if he did indeed say that. I wonder how many times Glenn Whelan touched the ball that same night in his team's 3-0 hammering against Liverpool. Did he even realise he was on the pitch?

We should drop O'Shea after his poor performance for Utd at Burnley:rolleyes:

Guess what part of 'fantasy manager' you guys do not quite understand.


Interesting few titbits from the Trap in the Examiner

Trap had a look at the last away game against Cyprus
"That was a peculiar Ireland," he said yesterday. "Some players were not in good positions. There were one or two injuries. I’m not going to name names but it was not an ideal team."

"We didn’t start well," (against Australia) he said, "and next week I will clarify with the players why. Our normal mentality was missing in the first half. In Cyprus, we can’t afford to do this. We know that they are fast and dangerous – a good, strong team. They are smart too, they look for fouls, they use provocation. It is good that we have had no red cards but you must always be aware of the little things that can make a big difference. We need to be careful, smart and mature.
"And we don’t forget that we lost in Cyprus. So that game and the game against Australia must be treated like an alarm bell. And our last three qualifiers must be treated like three World Cup finals – only with that mentality can we go to South Africa."
"We have to be proud. We have played well in very important games in Italy and Bulgaria. I think now that we can trust ourselves, have confidence in ourselves. The young players have to grow and believe in our possibilities. But it is important not lose concentration for even one moment. They must remember that a game of 90 minutes can change your life."

Garvan starting for Ipswich today but things going from bad to worse for Keano at Ipswich, two nil down at half time!!

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Originally Posted by geysir

We should drop O'Shea after his poor performance for Utd at Burnley:rolleyes:

Guess what part of 'fantasy manager' you guys do not quite understand.


Interesting few titbits from the Trap in the Examiner

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Don't be so stupid. By your logic we should still be picking the players from Charlton's days. Some absolutely ridiculous comments on here you'd think Kilbane, Miller, Whelan etc were destroying the opposition in matches.

If you don't pick players on club form and also don't remove the deadwood from your squad that hasn't been up to the task then why bother ever changing the squad at all?

When do you deem it okay to change the players? When we've been beaten in our last three matches and have no hope of going to the world cup? Bit late then isn't it? In future read over such rubbish before hitting that save button in your post window.

Marc Wilson at Portsmouth played ninety minutes today at right-back against Arsenal. I know he's on a crap team but he's hardly impressed in his three matches so far this season.

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Originally Posted by Jicked

For god's sake, what I said about St Ledger was that the huge fuss being kicked up about him was way over the top. I haven't changed that opinion, I don't think there's a huge huge difference between St Ledger and Bruce. St Ledger did well in Sofia and I was delighted for him. As thedoc even says above he's not in contention for a starting role yet, and his performance against Australia wasn't very good. Simiarly if Bruce was put in I'd be confident he could dig out a big performance like St Ledger did in Sofia, or McShane did against Czech Republic, but obviously isn't going to be a great option to start in this campaign.

I'd wager that I've seen Fahey far more than you have. He's a good player. He's Premier League quality and I'll be delighted to see him do well there. But he's not in a different class to Whelan.
Whelan plays a different role, one which is more useful to this team. We've gone to Cyprus and places like that with attacking midfielders like Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland and been overrun. If we put in Fahey and McCann that's exactly what would happen. Since Fahey isn't in a different class to Whelan, he's not worth putting in and messing up the balance of the midfield for. Stephen Ireland would be worth messing up that defensive balance for because he simply offers so much.

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Bruce isn't in the same class as St Ledger!