O'Neill gives his backing for a United Ireland team

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

Reads like the liner notes of a Wolfe Tones album and probably about as impartial and fact based. Either way ...has no place in this thread.

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Well said indeed, LR

P.S. I would have addressed this sooner, except that I was busy confiscating corn from the Irish family at the end of the street. The ungrateful wretches had the cheek to complain and all. Any more of their lip and I might just evict them....;)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

P.S. I would have addressed this sooner, except that I was busy confiscating corn from the Irish family at the end of the street. The ungrateful wretches had the cheek to complain and all. Any more of their lip and I might just evict them....;)

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Aren't we all Irish EG ;)

Crap moved here. Leave the political rubbish at home, this is a football forum.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

By who(m)?

I remember voting on something a few years ago ......

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By the people of the South, who elect parties into office whose stated aim is to annex NI, and who voted for a constitution which states:

It is the firm will of the Irish Nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island. Until then, the laws enacted by the Parliament established by this Constitution shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws enacted by the Parliament that existed immediately before the coming into operation of this Constitution.

That's not how I'd define the word "covet" Blanchflower.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

That's not how I'd define the word "covet" Blanchflower.

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Well it says in my dictionary "to long to possess something belonging to another" - seems a pretty accurate word to use.

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

But Art 16(2) - like Art 16 generally - only applies to "Associations sharing a common nationality" - the IFA and FAI don't share a common nationality.

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Well, article 2 of the Irish Constitution legally bestows Irish citizenship (with certain conditions) upon any individual born on the island (Ealing knows rightly the Qatari scenario is not analogous), in the exact same way that any person born in Northern Ireland is a UK/British citizen. Therefore, the IFA share a common nationality with the FAI, thus raising the question of whether the FAI -- in FIFAland -- reciprocally share that nationality with the IFA; or to put it in less obfuscatory terms, does article 16 now entitle anyone born on the island of Ireland to represent the IFA!?

The more I read articles 15 and 16, the more I'm inclined to believe that they will, indeed, apply to Ireland. For the sake of those born in NI who aspire to represent the ROI but do not meet these conditions, I hope this is not the case.

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Originally Posted by eelmonster

Well, article 2 of the Irish Constitution legally bestows Irish citizenship (with certain conditions) upon any individual born on the island (Ealing knows rightly the Qatari scenario is not analogous), in the exact same way that any person born in Northern Ireland is a UK/British citizen. Therefore, the IFA share a common nationality with the FAI, thus raising the question of whether the FAI -- in FIFAland -- reciprocally share that nationality with the IFA; or to put it in less obfuscatory terms, does article 16 now entitle anyone born on the island of Ireland to represent the IFA!?

The more I read articles 15 and 16, the more I'm inclined to believe that they will, indeed, apply to Ireland. For the sake of those born in NI who aspire to represent the ROI but do not meet these conditions, I hope this is not the case.

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Unfortunately, you are wrong. There is no "common nationality" between NI and ROI - to play for NI you must be a UK national and to play for ROI you must be an ROI national. It doesn't matter that the ROI grants citizenship to people in NI - that citizenship only entitles them to play for the South - it does not entitle them to play for NI.

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

Unfortunately, you are wrong. There is no "common nationality" between NI and ROI - to play for NI you must be a UK national and to play for ROI you must be an ROI national. It doesn't matter that the ROI grants citizenship to people in NI - that citizenship only entitles them to play for the South - it does not entitle them to play for NI.

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I wish you were right, I admire your adamance, but I would ask you this: how many players registered with the IFA (across all representative teams) have Irish passports (passports granted based on their inherent right to Irish citizenship/nationality)? And is it not the case that the IFA, admirably, lobbied successfully on behalf of these players' right to hold Irish passports? To my mind, these players -- and those yet to represent either association -- share a 'common nationality' with those born in the Republic.

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Originally Posted by eelmonster

I wish you were right, I admire your adamance, but I would ask you this: how many players registered with the IFA (across all representative teams) have Irish passports (passports granted based on their inherent right to Irish citizenship/nationality)?

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I'm sure quite a few do. But having an ROI passport does not mean that you are not a UK citizen!

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Originally Posted by eelmonster

And is it not the case that the IFA, admirably, lobbied successfully on behalf of these players' right to hold Irish passports?

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They did - for identification purposes - not eligibility.

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Originally Posted by eelmonster

To my mind, these players -- and those yet to represent either association -- share a 'common nationality' with those born in the Republic.

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They do indeed have the same nationality as Southerners, but they are also UK nationals and hence have dual nationality - their Southern nationality entitles them to play for the South and their UK nationality entitles them to play for NI.

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

They do indeed have the same nationality as Southerners, but they are also UK nationals and hence have dual nationality - their Southern nationality entitles them to play for the South and their UK nationality entitles them to play for NI.

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We'll have to agree to differ, my reading is that it is precisely because of their 'dual' nationality status that article 16 would have to be enforced. This will only be resolved by FIFA, definitively, when the FAI select another player born in NI who does not meet the criteria set out in art. 16 and the IFA challenge that selection.

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Originally Posted by eelmonster

We'll have to agree to differ, my reading is that it is precisely because of their 'dual' nationality status that article 16 would have to be enforced.

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No, mate - Article 16 doesn't deal with dual nationality - it deals with players whose nationality (singular) entitles them to play for more than 1 country, e.g. a UK national who - by nationality alone - could play for England, Scotland, Wales or NI. Or a Danish national who could play for Denmark and the Faroes.

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Originally Posted by eelmonster

This will only be resolved by FIFA, definitively, when the FAI select another player born in NI who does not meet the criteria set out in art. 16 and the IFA challenge that selection.

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FIFA has already spoken, mate - and "Darron" Gibson has already been capped. The new rules have changed nothing - they're just a consolidation effort.

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

Well it says in my dictionary "to long to possess something belonging to another" - seems a pretty accurate word to use.

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My dictionary must be broken then.

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island

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Or maybe not?

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

They do indeed have the same nationality as Southerners, but they are also UK nationals and hence have dual nationality - their Southern nationality entitles them to play for the South and their UK nationality entitles them to play for NI.

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Your geography book is broken though.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Or maybe not?

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Yeah, they recognise that consent may not be given, but they still want to annex it. They want us to consent to it (their firm will!)!

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Originally Posted by Blanchflower

Yes it does - and the citizenship law extends extra-territorially to include everyone born in the coveted piece of territory to your north.

I do have an interest in the substance of the discussion ... that's why I've been discussing its substance:eek: other than simply making statements of the obvious.

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Many of your posts are condescending trivia on political issues.
If you have opinions on citizenship laws, then take it to Other Topics.
That has no relevance here.
You are not welcome to pursue a personal political agenda on this football forum.

What is relevant on this thread, as has been stated ad nauseum by me before, is that FIFA recognise that the citizenship the Irish state bestows onto (almost) all people born on the Island, as falling under article 15 of the Eligibility Statutes.
That is indisputable.

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Originally Posted by geysir

If you have opinions on citizenship laws, then take it to Other Topics.
That has no relevance here.

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Citizenship laws are irrelevant to a discussion about eligibility for international football (which is based primarily on citizenship)???:eek:

Are you sane?

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Originally Posted by geysir

What is relevant on this thread, as has been stated ad nauseum by me before, is that FIFA recognise that the citizenship the Irish state bestows onto (almost) all people born on the Island, as falling under article 15 of the Eligibility Statutes.
That is indisputable.

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Er, yeah, I know - that's what I've been arguing all along! Try reading my posts before you start embarrassing yourself.:o

having surfed through many of these postings i have come to the observation that some on both sides "doth protest too much" and should get together and make beautiful music.Heres hoping that ye know who ye are

The arrogance stupidity of some sections of the northern press is dumbfounding. Again today articles in unionist papers are claiming victory Headlines such as "Dublin must play by the rules" and "Hands off NI Players, FIFA tells Republic".

Are the fools who write this able to read?

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

The arrogance stupidity of some sections of the northern press is dumbfounding. Again today articles in unionist papers are claiming victory Headlines such as "Dublin must play by the rules" and "Hands off NI Players, FIFA tells Republic".

Are the fools who write this able to read?

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The standard of journalism up here is pretty poor. Especially when it comes to sport.

This eligibility stuff is nearly as bad as the Lisbon treaty.:D