O'Neill gives his backing for a United Ireland team

[Blanchflower]

and i repeat , i believe what is the case is what should be the case

Yes, I know - why do you keep stating the obvious?

[Blanchflower]

tell me this , is the granting of israeli passports or german passports to people in the former soviet union irredentist?

No. Neither Israel nor Germany extends it citizenship laws arbitrarily to the former USSR. And neither state wishes to annex the former USSR.

[Greenforever]

No. Neither Israel nor Germany extends it citizenship laws arbitrarily to the former USSR. And neither state wishes to annex the former USSR.

if they found a ronaldo they might change thier rules

[kingdomkerry]

This part is interesting

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affeder ... _47752.pdf

13.2 REGULATIONS GOVERNING THE APPLICATION OF THE STATUTES
13.2.1 Eligibility to play for representative teams

'The objective is the complete integration of the various circulars and provisions within the regulations into the FIFA Statutes without altering the current legal situation (cf. Annexe 2 of the Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players, circular no. 901 dated 19 March 2004 and circular no. 1093 dated 21 June 2007). Under the proposal approved by the Executive Committee, all relevant provisions have been summarised and added to the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes. Accordingly, art. 15 in the chapter “Eligibility to play for representative teams” of the Regulations Governing the Application of the Statutes should be amended and new art. 16 to 18 should be included.'

Nothing has changed i.e. the new articles 16, 17 and 18 don't apply to northern born players because they qualify under article 15 as I posted above.

The reason all of this has taken a life of it's own is probably that due to the southern holiday yesterday, everyone is running with the IFA press release (there being no holiday in the north).

[Blanchflower]

Actually, my point was that the final part of Article 16 (Associations coming to an agreement, as the four British Associations have done) neither excludes or includes the FAI/ROI within Article 16.

But Art 16(2) - like Art 16 generally - only applies to "Associations sharing a common nationality" - the IFA and FAI don't share a common nationality.

But I am coming to the conclusion that inter alia, an NI-born player who wishes to opt for the FAI will (must?) come within the definition of Article 15 (i.e. " a person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country"), in which case Article 16 also should apply (i.e. "A player who, under the terms of Article 15 is eligible to represent more than one Association on account of his nationality")

Er, new Art. 15 says "Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country is eligible to play for the representative teams of the Association of that country"!

It is essentially clarification of the situation as per Annex 2, Circular 1093 etc. However, since that was hurredly rushed in, in response to the Brazil/Qatar case etc, I don't think it was designed specifically to address the Irish situation.

The annex to circular 901 deals with the UK situation.

But do the FIFA regulations on Eligibility anywhere specify a distinction between nationality acquired at birth and nationality newly acquired later on?

Actually you seem to be right on that. Article 18 is relevant but doesn't distinguish, although Article 17 is also relevant and deals only with acquisition.

If Article 15 applies to someone who is NI-born, but wants to represent the FAI - and I agree it does - then I think that automatically links him to Article 16

No. Because Article 16 expressly relates only to players who, under the terms of art. 15, are eligible to represent more than one Association on account of their nationality (i.e. the UK scenario).

This is where I think the article's terminology is ambiguous. I think it has to read to mean nationalities (plural) to make sense.

It makes sense meaning nationality singular. If it were plural then Article 18 would not make sense.

This is because someone who has Article 15 nationality must also have an additional nationality, by virtue of having been born somewhere else (if he were born in the territory of the Association he wishes to represent, Articles 15 and 16 are all irrelevant).

Er, no. Article 15 applies to everyone - it is the general principle - if you are a national of a country you can play for it. The exceptions and qualifications follow in 16, 17 and 18.

Article 15 refer to "Any person holding a permanent nationality that is not dependent on residence in a certain country" - it does not say you have to have been born somewhere else. I was born in the UK, for example, but my citizenship is not dependent on residence: if I emigrated I would remain a UK national.

As I said elsewhere, you need to test Article 15 with an actual example for it to make sense. A Brazilian who is suddenly granted Qatari citizenship will now have Article 15 nationality (i.e. Qatari).

But he won't because presumably the Qatari citizenship is dependent on residence.

[kingdomkerry]

I am a Unionist.

Born and bred in Belfast, in Northern Ireland, on the island of Ireland.

I have never stolen, or grabed, any land.

Nor do harbour any intention of stealing, or grabing, any land.

http://www.hoganstand.com/general/Id...ies/ulster.htm

Read this and educate yourself

Heres a sample

The native Irish (thats us), who had partaken in the uprisings, were banished to the bogs and hillsides, where they were continually pursued and hunted down like animals. As a result, many of them became outlaws and ‘rapparees’ praying constantly on the settlers who had deprived them of their lands (thats ye guys).

[Blanchflower]

http://www.hoganstand.com/general/Id...ies/ulster.htm

Read this and educate yourself

Heres a sample

The native Irish (thats us), who had partaken in the uprisings, were banished to the bogs and hillsides, where they were continually pursued and hunted down like animals. As a result, many of them became outlaws and ‘rapparees’ praying constantly on the settlers who had deprived them of their lands (thats ye guys).

**** off, ****. Take your political and ethnic hatred elsewhere.

[kingdomkerry]

Simply replying to a previous post.

[cheifo]

mods, can we change the title of this thread to "Avoid Like the Plague"

Good Man SKStu.

[Not Brazil]

http://www.hoganstand.com/general/Id...ies/ulster.htm

Read this and educate yourself

Heres a sample

The native Irish (thats us)

I am "native Irish"....so that's the end of that nonsense.

Anyway, I think Blanchflower has the right track on this....in short, any young player born in Northern Ireland, has a choice to play for the Republic Of Ireland or Northern Ireland.

I don't think anything has really changed in that regard since last week following the tweaking of the Eligibility Rules wordings.

[RogerMilla]

No. Neither Israel nor Germany extends it citizenship laws arbitrarily to the former USSR. And neither state wishes to annex the former USSR.

neither does our state wish to annex yours and our extension of citizenship is far from arbitrary.

you are annoyed because i state the obvious but the fact is that so do you , you have no interest in the substance of the discussion , you just want to make unsubstantiated claims about this states designs on the six counties and vent steam on FAI claims to players from the six counties. Enjoy , i will leave you to it.

[RogerMilla]

I am "native Irish"....so that's the end of that nonsense.

Anyway, I think Blanchflower has the right track on this....in short, any young player born in Northern Ireland, has a choice to play for the Republic Of Ireland or Northern Ireland.

I don't think anything has really changed in that regard since last week following the tweaking of the Eligibility Rules wordings.

Agreed on your irishness and agreed on blanchflowers interpretation , sorry EG but i just cant face that tract above, going to leave this thread alone until something develops.

[Blanchflower]

neither does our state wish to annex yours and our extension of citizenship is far from arbitrary.

Yes it does - and the citizenship law extends extra-territorially to include everyone born in the coveted piece of territory to your north.

you are annoyed because i state the obvious but the fact is that so do you , you have no interest in the substance of the discussion ,
.

I do have an interest in the substance of the discussion ... that's why I've been discussing its substance other than simply making statements of the obvious.

[ifk101]

Yes it does - and the citizenship law extends extra-territorially to include everyone born in the coveted piece of territory to your north.

Covet?

[Blanchflower]

Covet?

Yes.

[Lionel Ritchie]

[INDENT]

http://www.hoganstand.com/general/Id...ies/ulster.htm

Read this and educate yourself

Reads like the liner notes of a Wolfe Tones album and probably about as impartial and fact based. Either way ...has no place in this thread.

[Blanchflower]

Reads like the liner notes of a Wolfe Tones album and probably about as impartial and fact based. Either way ...has no place in this thread.

Well said.

[Not Brazil]

Reads like the liner notes of a Wolfe Tones album and probably about as impartial and fact based. Either way ...has no place in this thread.

Hear hear.

[cheifo]

Reads like the liner notes of a Wolfe Tones album and probably about as impartial and fact based. Either way ...has no place in this thread.

Well said Lionel, KK, posting a link to such tribal nonsense and then saying "educate yourself" is comical.
Your posts suggest you have a narrow, stereotypical view of all people who might be considered Unionist.
The great thing about these enlightened times is that these views-no matter what side they come from- are seen as downright backward.

[ifk101]

Yes.

By who(m)?

I remember voting on something a few years ago ......