All-Ireland League Thread

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

It is also worth factoring in or a least looking at in this context, a per head of population % trend of attendances across Europe.

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I'm not sure I understand this, but in any case, we're talking about an all-Ireland league, not an all-Europe one.

Fact is, what happens in Sweden or Turkey or Portugal etc has little bearing, if any, on what happens in Ireland.

And I still think that the key to building the domestic game here is to concentrate on football heartlands and build out from there, rather than blithely declaring: "Here's a big town/city/county without a professional football club, so let's start one here"

(There's probably a reason why they don't already have one).

There isnt a direct bearing but the consistant trend that is shown provides a benchmark. If considering per head of population, including areas of footballing tradition across UEFA, of which we are members of, interesting and pretty consistant stats on average attendances emerge. A benchmark by which attendances on this Island can be measured is useful knowledge, and even more so if pitching an AIL to money people or TV companies etc. Even if it's simply used as spin eg 'a larger percentage per head of population go to LoI games than to Serie A - think of the potential with investment and improved facilities and exposure' and so on.

The countries you mention are highly unlikely to have a direct bearing on what happens here. I dont think the same can be said in entirety of English, Scottish, Spanish leagues etc. as directly or indirectly there will be an influence on the local game - even if its the age old disporportionate comparisons made between EPL and LoI where people do the 'not watching that LoI muck, its no Liverpool v Manchester United is it!!??!!!!......

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

There isnt a direct bearing but the consistant trend that is shown provides a benchmark. If considering per head of population, including areas of footballing tradition across UEFA, of which we are members of, interesting and pretty consistant stats on average attendances emerge. A benchmark by which attendances on this Island can be measured is useful knowledge, and even more so if pitching an AIL to money people or TV companies etc. Even if it's simply used as spin eg 'a larger percentage per head of population go to LoI games than to Serie A - think of the potential with investment and improved facilities and exposure' and so on.

The countries you mention are highly unlikely to have a direct bearing on what happens here. I dont think the same can be said in entirety of English, Scottish, Spanish leagues etc. as directly or indirectly there will be an influence on the local game - even if its the age old disporportionate comparisons made between EPL and LoI where people do the 'not watching that LoI muck, its no Liverpool v Manchester United is it!!??!!!!......

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Apparently there is a Russian saying that "You don't fatten a cow by weighing it every day".

So instead of carrying out endless statistical exercises to determine how many Spaniards go to La Liga or Italians to Serie A to determine why more Irish people aren't going to LOI games, why not ask them (Irish) why they're not and then fix the problems?

I'd humbly suggest that facilities would be a start. Promotion/advertising would be another. Social media, eTicketing as well? A proper pyramid to provide structure, reward ambition and facilitate expansion couldn't do any harm either.

Meanwhile, you can spin your "higher percentage" all you like, but the people who sign the contracts for sponsorship, advertising and TV/Media etc don't give a damn about that, they look at the bottom line i.e. actual numbers through the turnstiles.

That statistical work is already done and updated and published regularly. Its just another string to a bow. Tbh we know what the domestic league's problems are and the only real fix is financing at higher levels until facilities are up to scratch as ye mentioned and then with marketing et al. We may differ on the usefullnes of stats but I see it as necessary to be aware of pannational trends in a sport, from levels of participation to attendences for domestic leagues. I get what you are saying regarding percentages as 50% of 1000 people wont turn heads like 1% of 10 million people but there are times when targets are set and need to be realistic and guided and one way is to look to others' stats. Identifying trends is valuable for many reasons and while my comment on 'spin' was really a throw away remark, it is the basis on which the EPL has grown - people started to believe the constant Sky Sports 'best league in the world world rhetoric. It could be classed as marketing but certainly when the EPL was formed the claims didnt live up to reality so hence I saw/see it as spin.

Its the Irish sporting public that needs convincing on domestic Irish football most, and most of that is achieved by credibility which isnt particulary good. Showing that the league is proportionately better supported than even top leagues can help change a mindset. Using similar sized country like Croatia, for example, and Irish football attendances fare quite well in comparison (outside their top 2 or 3 clubs), well Joe Barstool would keel over and could very well want to climb aboard a bandwagon.

The % of people that attend domestic football here, considering the impact of being very much a small multi-sport country unlike many others to the same extent, is also significant imo.

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...nd-league-ifa/

Let Cliftonville and Dungannon spend the rest of their existence playing only each other and we will batter on.

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Originally Posted by DCWA

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...nd-league-ifa/

Let Cliftonville and Dungannon spend the rest of their existence playing only each other and we will batter on.

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“However, to explore the potential finances and sporting advantages of this proposal, we formally request that the proposal be submitted to Uefa for consideration.

“Should Uefa take a favourable view of the proposal, we will then be in a better position to speak to commercial partners, public bodies and peace bodies for funding.

“Once the clubs are satisfied that the required funding has been secured, and will be distributed in such a manner so as not to see the smaller clubs left behind, we will then be in a better position to take on views of our members and other stakeholders to make a decision on whether or not to proceed with this structure."

Great stuff. Thought this was dead in the water. It would be really interesting to see if the prizemoney they teased could actually materialise.

Absolutely nothing to lose in exploring it.

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Originally Posted by DCWA

https://www.thesun.ie/sport/football...nd-league-ifa/

Let Cliftonville and Dungannon spend the rest of their existence playing only each other and we will batter on.

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Crack on. I'm sure both clubs will enjoy winning titles and playing in Europe more often. :rolleyes:

Anyway 10 clubs (9 if you discount one who may be about to be relegated) have signed a letter in the hope for more exploration to continue. They have not committed to an AIL.

Mr P, with respect, just what are the main reasons for Cliftonville's objections to the AIL< this is one club that I thought would more of embraced the AIL scene with their support persuasion.

Not everyone is saying AIL is the absolute way forward, (Personally I think its a good idea), 4 leagues in one island is ridiculous, I'd love to see eventually a super league of say 14 clubs, made up from 8 + 6, or 9 + 5 would be a perfect size), but surely the AIL is at least worth looking into it ?

I just don't get why Cliftonville are the consistent ones who have been saying no, and with respect (again) its almost 'Ulster says no'

Good on the other 10 clubs for having the ambition of looking to at least get more details.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Crack on. I'm sure both clubs will enjoy winning titles and playing in Europe more often. :rolleyes:

Anyway 10 clubs (9 if you discount one who may be about to be relegated) have signed a letter in the hope for more exploration to continue. They have not committed to an AIL.

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Was there a suggestion that they had? It looked that the IFA had binned any interest. Most clubs have said they want to see more before its entirely ruled out. As said, where's the harm in that? While things may be changing at the FAI but seeing NIFL clubs being able to instruct the IFA to take their opinion on board is great stuff - I hope they are taking notes in Abbotstown!

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Originally Posted by oriel

Mr P, with respect, just what are the main reasons for Cliftonville's objections to the AIL< this is one club that I thought would more of embraced the AIL scene with their support persuasion.

Not everyone is saying AIL is the absolute way forward, (Personally I think its a good idea), 4 leagues in one island is ridiculous, I'd love to see eventually a super league of say 14 clubs, made up from 8 + 6, or 9 + 5 would be a perfect size), but surely the AIL is at least worth looking into it ?

I just don't get why Cliftonville are the consistent ones who have been saying no, and with respect (again) its almost 'Ulster says no'

Good on the other 10 clubs for having the ambition of looking to at least get more details.

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When did we say no to the last proposal?

"Support persuasion"? I don't know whether to be angry or sad that you choose such terminology. If you believe that you should run a football club or make footballing decisions based on politic considerations, then football is not the place for you.

The only comment our club made was via our chairman, who based on the first proposals, called them "pie in the sky." And so they turned out, with the proposers having to go back to the drawing board.

To be involved in signing any joint letter, then maybe it would be better for ALL clubs to be involved in such discussions, rather than 'secret' talks involving a minoity of clubs, deliberately excluding some, and then at the last minute think you can just everyone to jump on board. Not the best way to win friends and influence people.

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Was there a suggestion that they had? It looked that the IFA had binned any interest. Most clubs have said they want to see more before its entirely ruled out. As said, where's the harm in that? While things may be changing at the FAI but seeing NIFL clubs being able to instruct the IFA to take their opinion on board is great stuff - I hope they are taking notes in Abbotstown!

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It is the inference that is drawn from DCWA's post.

As for "most clubs", that is incorrect. Many more than the 12 Premiership clubs would be impacted. The IFA have a duty to ALL clubs. NIFL clubs cannot instruct the IFA to do anything. That is pure fantasy.

No club, including Cliftonville, has ruled out the current proposal afaik. However, in my opinion, if the last proposal is good, then it doesn't take a letter to continue, but rather some actual real numbers to be set out. From the beginning all we have heard about is potential, possibilities and hoped for outcomes. For example, when the NIFL was first proposed to clubs, there was a sound, fleshed out proposal with financial certainties. On that basis clubs made a decision.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Crack on. I'm sure both clubs will enjoy winning titles and playing in Europe more often. :rolleyes:

Anyway 10 clubs (9 if you discount one who may be about to be relegated) have signed a letter in the hope for more exploration to continue. They have not committed to an AIL.

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Well that’s it 3 European spots for a two team league it has its positives I like this proposal might email Derry suggesting they join the north Belfast and Dungannon Division

Jesus Mary and Joseph it is not that hard to grasp that

No association backing = No financial backing
Provisional association support = provisional financial backing
Full association support = Full financial backing

Either side of that coin would be either desperate or idiotic to give full backing while the other side was on no backing. All the clubs in the NIFL are asking is for the IFA to give provisional backing so the clubs and the IFA can see what sort of provisional financial backing they can get so they can make an informed decision.

This is not a hard concept for people to wrap their head around stop acting like it is.

Provisional financial backing can be achieved without the backing of anyone.

It cant. But we've been over this and you refuse. To accept basic principles of business so there's no point going over it again

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

It cant. But we've been over this and you refuse. To accept basic principles of business so there's no point going over it again

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I want to buy a house (league). I ask my bank sponsor) can I have a mortgage (sponsorship). The bank offer me one provisionally, based on survey and other conditions. I go back and look at house again, but change my mind. Financial backing was achieved for the purchase.

Nope not going near that roundabout of a discussion with RH again!!! JM+J clubs/associations looking to know financial implications in advance is obviously clueless...

I could have phrased things better Mr P. Instructing an association to 'take their opinion on board' isnt fantasy as the IFA will do so and say we've done that and we still are not having it. Of course there are more than 12 clubs to be considered but 10 from 12 of the clubs that could at this moment in time could qualify to participate IF there was progress is a pretty strong consensus, and 2nd tier clubs are likely to have some interest in what is going on if there is some filtering down of finances, however that could be done.

While its understandable that you will have similar opinions and concerns as the club you support, and like CFC you do come across as a total skeptic more so than simply wanting and waiting for improved details on a proposal.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

I want to buy a house (league). I ask my bank sponsor) can I have a mortgage (sponsorship). The bank offer me one provisionally, based on survey and other conditions. I go back and look at house again, but change my mind. Financial backing was achieved for the purchase.

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You want to buy a house (league) you ask your bank (sponsor) can you have a mortgage (sponsorship), the bank ask you do the current owners (FAI and IFA) have the house up for sale, you say no. They tell you to **** off. Banks will also ask for your financial information, payslips, account balances (Uefa places, FA membership, etc).
Try again.

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Originally Posted by RathfarnhamHoop

You want to buy a house (league) you ask your bank (sponsor) can you have a mortgage (sponsorship), the bank ask you do the current owners (FAI and IFA) have the house up for sale, you say no. They tell you to **** off. Banks will also ask for your financial information, payslips, account balances (Uefa places, FA membership, etc).
Try again.

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No need.
Owners willing to sell at a certain price based on the the purchaser being able to demonstrate ability to secure finances and surities house will not be demolished. Information not needed as it is only a provisional offer until time to sign and draw down.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

No need.
Owners willing to sell at a certain price based on the the purchaser being able to demonstrate ability to secure finances and surities house will not be demolished. Information not needed as it is only a provisional offer until time to sign and draw down.

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Not only are you now basing your argument on "everyone has their price" which is bull**** and why compulsory purchase orders are a thing but I don't know what sort of mortgages you're talking about because every bank will ask for bank statements, payslips, proof of employment at a minimum as well as having your deposit in place before giving a mortgage in principle or in other words the person looking for the mortgage needs to demonstrate an ability to follow through with the mortgage or to translate to the scenario we're talking about they'll want assurances that UEFA will ratify the league which requires the IFA and the FAIs cooperation. Its amazing that most top division clubs on this island can grasp this simple concept but you, the self proclaimed expert on everything to do with football on this island can't.