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With all respect, he's given what he approximates as the percentages of people who would be opposed to or in favour of a merger. You've not given any figures at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
And I'd say the onus is on you to try and show that there are a significant number of fans who are in favour of the merger, rather than on him showing the number in favour of the status quo.
I certainly don't speak for the whole population of Northern Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I do speak, with confidence, on the feelings of the vast majority of Northern Ireland fans on the matter.
You are right - we are very proud of our team (as I'm sure you are of yours).
That's as maybe. But when the end comes, it'll be down to the machinations of their newly 'beloved' FIFA, not any polls done by me or him. Personally I'd love to see a poll in the Six counties or across the whole island, but doubtless the content would be seen as too frivolous by many. Perhaps rightly so.
Anyway, none of the other advocates of a UI team have proposed a poll. They've relied on the logic of the many other examples, a commodity not very prevalent in certain quarters. As opposed to paranoia.
You can have all the Polls you like - you don't seem to be able to grasp that any amount of Polls wont put a Company (the IFA) out of business.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
To wish to hold onto something one cherishes, and see it progress, is not paranoia.
Come on, you- and those who agree with you on this theme/ thread- aren't really putting anything new into the discussion. You're just repeating the same thing over and over again, which is why NB and I alone have replied to it by reflex 150 times on the thread. As Gerry Adams might say, there's an impasse in dialog ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
Anyway, off the top of my head here's a ridiculous suggestion prompted by Ardee Bhoy and others on another thread. Your fans are obviously still sore about losing an unlucky goal to France, to the extent that some are even wondering aloud about boycotting future FIFA/ UEFA competitions. As an alternative- and bearing in mind you couldn't score a single goal in 180 minutes against the Black Mountain- why not set up a alternative competition where you can rack up wins against Cave Hill, Slieve Donard and the Glenshane Pass? Trebles all round!
You've got what you want in practice; you don't need to argue for some extra principle which just winds up your neighbors. Stop stirring.Quote:
As I've said, I acknowledge that there is an effective united Ireland team, but it's not the same as having one international football entity, as you obviously know
I was being semi-serious. We already know what Northern Ireland fans think of the Northern Ireland football team think; 100% support it, self-evidently by definition. If you want to test what all others (RoI fans, people not bothered by football, that sort of thing) think, you need to stand for election, or get an existing party to do it for you. You can't just hide behind 'ah, but if we just assume what the silent majority thinks'.Quote:
Seriously though, I still think it's an issue which should see the consultation of the population of Northern Ireland (as well as the Republic) as they are all prospective fans
There are no positives for any NI fan in there not being a NI fan after you've abolished it. I mean, d'uh.Quote:
but for those NI fans (including prospective NI fans) who are in favour, there are positives
I support the Ireland cricket team because there isn't and hasn't been a NI side. Although I've lived in the Republic of Ireland (as well as Germany and England by choice as an adult), I've no affinity to any of their international football teams. Can't think where you got that idea from.Quote:
Not Brazil says he would find it difficult to cheer on a united Ireland team as passionately, since he feels little to no affinity to the Republic of Ireland. You don't have that problem though
It has about as much credence as the original Creedence (Clearwater Revival, I'm a long-time fan) getting together again. Alas they haven't spoken civilly since about 1983 ;)Quote:
it could be avoided altogether if it wasn't given any credence whatsoever, which is what you and NB have been doing
I suppose if you can blithely ignore 150 posts on this thread alone telling you we're not interested, your perceived "lack of input" is hardly a surprise.Quote:
Then again, maybe it will happen eventually and the lack of input from NI fans would encourage the 'takeover' attitude
Let me put it slightly differently. Any possible availability of players from outside the Republic of Ireland doesn't necessarily have a bearing on a takeover of the IFA. Because, obviously, you already have plenty of such players, like.Quote:
Originally Posted by boovidge
I was being sarcastic. In the good/bad years, given the fickleness of modern football fans (Of all shades!) there must be more fans of Ireland in the North's population than of the North, given there's a 3-way or more split....Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Though I'd accept the North's support would have grown given their improvement in recent years but any relative success, like with Ireland, is generally cyclical.
It'll be FIFA who'll vote you out of existence. And it certainly sounds like paranoia, if not ostrich-like! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
People who don't support Northern Ireland are not really my concern - yes, there are a sizeable number of people from Northern Ireland who support the Republic Of Ireland...that's entirely up to them. I doubt they are any more or less passionate about suppporting their team than Northern Ireland fans are ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
All teams have fluctuations in support - at least in terms of those wanting to go to matches. That's the same the world over.
Of course I realise many football fans in NI support the Republic, and a smaller number England. I'd be very surprised if yours was the largest group. Put simply, there are more unionists than nationalists; you can't assume that none of the nationalists will support NI, England, or a combination of two or more; you aren't (as Osarusan says above) actually offering any evidence at all, are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardee Bhoy
In the unlikely event of FIFA voting out any Irish team, I'd be more worried if I supported the one which has recently been so aggressively critical of FIFA (not to mention exposing itself to Worldwide ridicule in the process).Quote:
It'll be FIFA who'll vote you out of existence. And it certainly sounds like paranoia, if not ostrich-like
I don't see how they will.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Perhaps just wishful (and hostile) thinking on your part?
There is nothing either paranoid or "ostrich-like" about not wanting to see our team disappear.
You do understand the concept of being a "supporter", do you?:confused:
To NB;Of course I understand the concept of support, but that's not what the likes of Michael Walker is suggesting. Maybe you need to re-read....Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
As for FIFA, for all their faults, corruption and crookedness(And that's an understatement!);they're more likely to vote out of existence teams not representing legitimate sovereign states, instead of representing archaic colonial entities.
I've read Walker's piece - same old...Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I do not believe for one minute that FIFA will vote the four "home" Associations out of existance - if it were to come to pass, I would not be a passionate supporter of an All UK team - I doubt many (outside of possibly England fans) would.
Don't raise your hopes on that one!
And the evidence that they're planning this, or that they've done it- even once- in the past?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
It's part of Jack Warner's, er, agenda. And has some sympathy in other of the more obscure parts of FIFA's constituency.
Good luck to Jack with that.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Fine, upstanding, FIFA representative that he is.:D
AB pinning his hopes on the disappearance of the Northern Ireland team, to be gobbled up in an All UK team, on the evidence of a discredited Jack Warner's wishes....absolutely brilliant.:D
It isn't. If Jack Warner wants anything from the Irish FA at all, it's our vote if he runs for FIFA el Presidente. All he has to do is offer Kennedy and his family (or John Delaney and his) a nice free holiday in some Caribbean resort or other. There are no plans and no constituency for forcing any UEFA member countries out of the organisation, only some pressure to stop others getting in. For example, big centralised countries like Spain or Russia aren't too keen on Euskal or Chechnya, say, breaking away to organise their own teams.
Where are these obscure parts of FIFA's constituency, other than in your imagination?
PS to NB- I wasn't joking about Jack being a posible future presidente. He may have been discredited by the English media (until he changed his mind and said he'd vote for England 2018 after all), and more importantly the courts in his own country, but that's no bar to senior office in FIFA.
It is. As the 4 home 'nations' are seen as holding too much proportionate power.
But you people love to deny the facts as part of the paranoid agenda.
Though I would agree Warner/FIFA are discredited, though 'law of averages' I suppose that they'll eventually do something 'right'.
Should Jack succeed in reaching the top, he'll find he's not in charge of a Dictatorship.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
There is a certain validity in the arguement that the four Home Associations carry to much power - that is a whole different arguement as to whether they should be denied the right to exist autonomously.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Would an All UK team compete more effectively on the world stage? Using your logic, probably.
Why do you think the overwhelming majority of supporters of the four Home Association's International representative teams are steadfastly oppossed to such a move?
What is this "paranoid agenda" of which you speak?:confused:
As I mentioned above, NI like the other three has a seat on the International Board. It's just a committee. If anyone is that bothered- you need to show some independent evidence- all they need do is argue for the committee to be entirely elected without ex-officio members. It's just not an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy