Next Ireland manager?

Hi All,


Quick question, did we ever have a really embarrassing defeat under McCarthy? Under Stan we had the San Marino debacle, the 4–0 thrashing by Holland and of course, can we forget > Cyprus. Under Trap there was the Germany hiding and to be fair that is the only one I can think off.


For MonKeano I can think of the Belgian game (for me anyway, I live here :o) ) and of course The Denmark and Wales games.


Was there one actually really bad game that sticks in the long term memory?

These ones above are really embarrassing so at least we wont have any more of these nights..............will we?????????

I can certainly think of one, but not too many.

Probably the worst result under Mick was the 0-0 at home to Iceland, and there was also the 4-2 escape in Reykjavik in the same campaign.

I don't think we had a really bad defeat. Only competitive losses were Romania away in 98 qualifying, Yugoslavia and Croatia away in 00, Iran away in 02, and then Russia and Switzerland in 04.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

It's linked a couple of pages back. Kilbane named players who he he felt would either know very little about Kenny or not know him at all. He never said they wouldn't respect him, he actually pointed out that he never said this. So yes, I suggest you go look. :)

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You're right, the respect word was not used by Killer but he pretty much used many negative impressions/beliefs that most of the players 'would certainly have' to support his argument that Mick would have more immediate impact and players would respond, therefore Mick would be a better appointment for qual 2020. Kenny for a longer term.
I happen to agree with Keith Andrews who, when quoted correctly :), reduces the value of that instant impression to zero and states with confidence that Kenny would quickly make up for any lost ground with his managerial nous and imo character and personality.

Micks 3 second advantage would vapourise. Killer just caught up into overplaying the impact of this first impression.

Eh MAcedonia lads. It's kinda gone down in folklore.

Oops!

(And of course we also lost to Belgium away in that campaign)

So his only competitive home defeat was his last game.

Obviously a completely different scenario now.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Only competitive losses were Romania away in 98 qualifying, Yugoslavia and Croatia away in 00, Iran away in 02, and then Russia and Switzerland in 04.

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You've had a Macedonia there Stu :)

(Edit: Damn, too late!)

Can't even do a sneaky ninja edit now :o

McCarthy's Park got an airing on twitter in the last night or two. Paints him in a relatively decent light (it focusses on his first campaign).
He made mistakes but nothing outrageous. After that first campaign he won the games against lower seeds, was competitive away against higher seeds, and generally won at home against higher seeds. A repeat of that is the minimum required.

The fear is that we never looked like winning* a big game away from home under Mick.

Romania, Belgium, Croatia, Yugoslavia, Turkey, Portugal, Iran, Russia. Not once in any of those games did we look like we believed we were capable of winning. That's not great. Is it a mindset? You could argue that Mick was central to the good days under Jack where they didn't really do a massive one away from home (again the caveat is "when did we ever?") either, so is it a mindset? You'd hope things would change in the intervening period, but I'm not sure if Mick's teams at Sunderland or Wolves ever did massive underdog away victories either?

*the caveat is the Netherlands game as the exception to that rule. We should have won, didn't and could easily have lost it at the end of 90mins.


I'm not displeased that Mick McCarthy has been given the job, and I wouldn't denounce him as a result of it. I just think this was a time to be ambitious, send a clear signal about the priorities of getting the system right, the style right, and promote local deserving talent. I don't believe we've done that.
Am I happy we've changed manager, absolutely I am. I think this is a little tough on Kenny, particularly if they pressure him to take the 21's.

People referring to going down the Paul Cook route....Paul Cook went home. He went back to the Northwest, to Accrington. It just happens to be in the English league system.
I don't want Stephen Kenny to go there, because frankly I don't want any Irish football people going there. I want them to develop here, or to go to mainland Europe. Why should Stephen Kenny have to uproute his family to go through the ringer of the football league that very few Irish fans give a **** about anyway. His style of football won't suit there.
I hope he gets a good run in the CL with Dundalk, gets them to perhaps the group stage of the EL again, and perhaps get offered a gig in Germany or Belgium, where he might get a bit of respect, and with a bit of luck we've performed well under Mick and Kenny gets the chance after Qatar 22 to take the big job.

Thinking of my own experience with the McCarthy regime.....I remember 2002, we played Russia in a friendly and we played them off the field. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2laTkj59zvQ


In my own experience and i say my own, I dont think I have ever seen Ireland play as well as they did that night and I am 39 now, so I have seen a lot. To this day, for me, it was one of the best performances I have seen.


On a personal note, it was one of the first dates I had with my then girlfriend (now wife) and we watched the match in O'Reillys in Brussels on the big screen. It was a funny old night, the manager of the bar put us up higher than the English who were, the same night, playing also. Dear Lord, the songs we sang. A great night,lets hope for more.


Cant remember the score of the English match though :) :)

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Totally in agreement
McCarthy's management career highlights :
Millwall got to the playoffs
Ireland last 16 of World cup
Wolves: Promoted to Premier league
Sunderland: Promoted to Premier league

Kenny:
Highly successful within the League of Ireland but not beyond that

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All true. But once we become embroiled in qualifying for 2020, Mick will be on his bike and all of the underlying problems surrounding Irish football will be forgotten like they never even existed.
We'll give it our all in every game. A large amount of pride in the Irish team will be restored and when all is said and done we'll still possess the football like it's a hot potato.
Stephen Kenny has his finger on the pulse locally - he offered hope for change, starting at the bottom and working all the way up to the senior team.
Had he been given the job I feel he would have changed the domestic game to complement the international setting.
Unless he is installed as assistant manager to Mick, I believe we will have missed the boat for the 179th time as far as fixing the problems which beseige Irish football is concerned.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

McCarthy's Park got an airing on twitter in the last night or two. Paints him in a relatively decent light (it focusses on his first campaign).
He made mistakes but nothing outrageous. After that first campaign he won the games against lower seeds, was competitive away against higher seeds, and generally won at home against higher seeds. A repeat of that is the minimum required.

The fear is that we never looked like winning* a big game away from home under Mick.

Romania, Belgium, Croatia, Yugoslavia, Turkey, Portugal, Iran, Russia. Not once in any of those games did we look like we believed we were capable of winning. That's not great. Is it a mindset? You could argue that Mick was central to the good days under Jack where they didn't really do a massive one away from home (again the caveat is "when did we ever?") either, so is it a mindset? You'd hope things would change in the intervening period, but I'm not sure if Mick's teams at Sunderland or Wolves ever did massive underdog away victories either?

*the caveat is the Netherlands game as the exception to that rule. We should have won, didn't and could easily have lost it at the end of 90mins.


I'm not displeased that Mick McCarthy has been given the job, and I wouldn't denounce him as a result of it. I just think this was a time to be ambitious, send a clear signal about the priorities of getting the system right, the style right, and promote local deserving talent. I don't believe we've done that.
Am I happy we've changed manager, absolutely I am. I think this is a little tough on Kenny, particularly if they pressure him to take the 21's.

People referring to going down the Paul Cook route....Paul Cook went home. He went back to the Northwest, to Accrington. It just happens to be in the English league system.
I don't want Stephen Kenny to go there, because frankly I don't want any Irish football people going there. I want them to develop here, or to go to mainland Europe. Why should Stephen Kenny have to uproute his family to go through the ringer of the football league that very few Irish fans give a **** about anyway. His style of football won't suit there.
I hope he gets a good run in the CL with Dundalk, gets them to perhaps the group stage of the EL again, and perhaps get offered a gig in Germany or Belgium, where he might get a bit of respect, and with a bit of luck we've performed well under Mick and Kenny gets the chance after Qatar 22 to take the big job.

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I like your optimism Kingdom. I too believe that this was the time to stop taking the path of least resistence and go down the right road with Kenny. He offered hope for change, proper change to coach kids playing the proper way. I would suggest however that even if Stephen Kenny were to make the semi-finals of the Europa League with Dundalk, the FAI would turn to someone else to manage the national team. Mr Delaney needs to get a proper pair of glasses to correct his shortsightedness.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Back in 2002, I was very much pro-Keane and anti-Mick. Now, with the benefit of hindsight, I realise that they were just two personalities who really don't get on. Roy is a good guy, Mick is a nice guy. So I have nothing against Mick any more and appreciate everything he gave for the cause as player and manager. I just don't think we should be overselling him as a management genius of some kind. He has his shortcomings. He is a very similar manager to Martin O'Neill. He could well come in and motivate the players and get them to qualify. But we have to ask ourselves what direction we want to go in. Do we want the quick fix or do we risk doing something new? Usually we go for the quick fix, but we might be back asking the same questions in four years from now if we do that again.

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Brine, you should by a Lotto ticket tonight, because you have just seen four years into the future. Everything you said will come true and you're right, we will be sitting here in four years (or less) wondering why we are asking the same questions with the Irish team unable to hold possession for more than two seconds, and not a creative midfielder in sight.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I would love to know if the FAI have any particular criteria they are looking for, a list of specific strengths which match the squad needs for example, or similar criterion...or is just whether somebody is 'good enough' or not.

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Their particular criteria is the following: Bums on seats at the Aviva, Bums on seats at the Aviva x 10, qualification for a major tournament............................and 999th onthe list - the long term development of Irish football

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Originally Posted by TrapAPony

He is right in some ways. Re the instant respect issue, who would likely get Declan Rice on board, Mick McCarthy or Stephen Kenny?

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With all due respect. We have to stop chasing the Declan Rice's and Jack Grealish's of the world. Put as much time and effort into developing the game at home and you won't have to. It would be slightly different if they were swimming across the Irish sea to wear the green shirt, but that is not the case.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Good on him.

I suspect any "Mick is set to agree terms" leaks to the press are for the FAI to gauge public reaction.

I'm actually quite pro-Mick but over the last 18 hours I think I have swung towards Kenny.

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It has to be Kenny. Mick would be deserving of the job if it was under normal circumstances, but these are not normal circumstances. Mick's appointment will just herald another two years of kicking the can down the road.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

in my 30+ years following ROI mccarthys teams played the best football. Always got the best out of players and very successfully reinvented stan as a ctre back in the team for example.
he fell out with Roy and nobody else.

it cant be over stated just how important it is that we hit the ground running with our next match being a qualifier in march with no friendlies before that. in that case mick is the best choice. kenny would need a few matches to find his feet and we dont have that luxury this time around

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We don't have two years of luxury under Mick. When do we rip up the system and start afresh? Mick will certainly not make that part of his agenda. He'll be all about results and who can blame him.

I think making the right U21 appointment will help join things up. Mick may not seamlessly connect the U17s to the seniors but I'd say the seniors will be less primitive than under MON and with the U21s being seen as an important link between what seems now to be working well U15-U19, things may work themselves out. It's a bit of a big ask of a new senior manager to connect everything up by himself. U21s will be critical. The near-medium term future will depend on the likes of Ryan Nolan and Caoimhin Kelleher, neither of who was even considered by King.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Any evidence for that?

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Well, we all know Alex FFerguson's conduct in relation to his players international careers. He wasnt in favour ..lets me honest.
In Dec 1999 we are drawn in the group of Group of Death Holland and Portugal
In Jan 2000 Denis Irwin retires from Ireland
You dont need to be Hercule Poirot to fill in the blanks

I can't say I'm au fait with Mick's career since he left Wolverhampton. Brian Kerr said he was impressed with Mick in their recent encounters, "he knows the game", probably Brian's highest accolade :)
When the draw happens, the plot to qualify can begin.