Next Ireland manager?

[ifk101]

Yeah he makes a very strong case for himself, and great to hear belief and positivity. Sick of the defeatist attitude.
Shame the article cuts shorts when he goes into detail.
But feel a Kenny appointment needs to be combined with a FAI structural revamp and Delaney leaving. That's why I'd lean to a short term appointment that knows the ropes, with structural reform in the meantime and then a Kenny appointment.

[shakermaker1982]

McCarthy - the past

Kenny - the future

Let’s be bold and try something new. McCarthy will have a short term boost for a couple of games but within 12 months we’ll all be bickering on here about hoofball, not having the players, McCarthy falling out with somebody, Saipan blah blah blah.

We need a coach. We need somebody who is prepared to get us playing football and has a system.

[OwlsFan]

Kenny - the future Let’s be bold and try something new.
We need a coach. We need somebody who is prepared to get us playing football and has a system.

It's not new though. We've had Liam Tuohy and Brian Kerr. Personally, rather than rushing in to either McCarthy or Kenny, they should wait until all the applications have arrived and consider them carefully. What is the rush ?

Only two I would definitely not want: Big Bung Sam and Roy Keane.

[DeLorean]

Killer is a positive chap, but isn't his preferred option Mick? and he used the respect line as prop for his choice, a deal breaker of sorts.
I hear dandy Keith Andrews has a more mature different take on the respect in the dressing room issue.

You see, that's the whole misunderstanding and the problem with not actually listening to what people say. Nathan Murphy is very wound up in the first conversation with Kilbane, just look at his body language while he's waiting to jump in with his own points. They end up discussing different things.

It's not a "respect in the dressing room" issue. Kilbane never mentions the word 'respect' when making his points', he only mentions it to correct Murphy's misinterpretation (and clearly yours too).


NM- "Who are the players who wouldn't respect him?"

KK- "I never said they wouldn't respect him. I said if you're looking for an immediate response from a manager when he walks in to the dressing room, or walks into the building, Mick McCarthy would immediately grab you more than Stephen Kenny".


He was speaking in the context of which manager is more likely to get an immediate bounce to help us qualify for Euro 2020. He believes the players would be more familiar with McCarthy, so he's more likely to inspire a quicker reaction. He also thinks McCarthy's experience and reputation would help him if the immediate results aren't great, compared to Kenny, who might be considered out of his depth having never managed at a very high level previously.

He actually indicates that Kenny might be the better longer term option, suggesting that he's better tactically and on the training ground than McCarthy. If he really is a McCarthy 'cheerleader', this is a very strange thing to say, especially seeing as he played under him.

Kilbane believes that it would be safer to go down the "tried and trusted" route considering the importance of qualifying for these Euros. That's open for discussion of course but it's hardly an unreasonable position.


Despite all of this, and Kilbane correcting Murphy's misinterpretation, the latter still opens his discussion with Andrews with this:


NM- "Do you agree with Kilbane that Mick McCarthy walks into that dressing room and instantly gets more respect than Kenny does?"

And the more mature Keith responds by saying-

KA - "Immediately, yes, a little bit".


So Kilbane believes that McCarthy would be better equipped to inspire the players immediately, but Andrews actually believes that he would also get more respect, initially at least.

Andrews' personal experience with Di Matteo, etc. was interesting but irrelevant in the context of what Kilbane was suggesting really. Kilbane himself conceded that it's something Kenny could overcome by impressing the players on the training pitch.

[jbyrne]

McCarthy - the past

Kenny - the future

Let’s be bold and try something new. McCarthy will have a short term boost for a couple of games but within 12 months we’ll all be bickering on here about hoofball, not having the players, McCarthy falling out with somebody, Saipan blah blah blah.

We need a coach. We need somebody who is prepared to get us playing football and has a system.

in my 30+ years following ROI mccarthys teams played the best football. Always got the best out of players and very successfully reinvented stan as a ctre back in the team for example.
he fell out with Roy and nobody else.

it cant be over stated just how important it is that we hit the ground running with our next match being a qualifier in march with no friendlies before that. in that case mick is the best choice. kenny would need a few matches to find his feet and we dont have that luxury this time around

[seanfhear]

in my 30+ years following ROI mccarthys teams played the best football. Always got the best out of players and very successfully reinvented stan as a ctre back in the team for example.
he fell out with Roy and nobody else.

it cant be over stated just how important it is that we hit the ground running with our next match being a qualifier in march with no friendlies before that. in that case mick is the best choice. kenny would need a few matches to find his feet and we dont have that luxury this time around

Its not hard to fall out with Roy . Just ask the present Irish squad .

[passinginterest]

I'd like to see a wider search and a proper interview process than just saying McCarthy or Kenny. I've got reservations about both. McCarthy is certainly the more predictable short term option, everyone knows what he's about, he's not afraid to use young players, he's been through various rebuilding phases, including his first time with the Irish team, and he'll just get on with making the best of what's available to him. His Irish teams were certainly capable of playing some football, maybe the memory is tinged with some rose tinted glasses, but my memory of the 2002 team was that they largely outplayed Spain in the last 16 game.

My worry with Kenny is that people seem to think he's a real training ground manager and an attention to detail guy, and that's not really his thing. One of the problems when he took over from Mick O'Neill at Rovers was partly down to the fact that O'Neill was a real details and analysis and set pieces guy but Kenny isn't, and the squad didn't adapt. There was also respect issues there, some of the senior players under O'Neill who weren't familiar with Kenny, just didn't respect him, there was recordings doing the rounds at the time of players taking the pee out of him. Someone who'd be very familiar told me Kenny wouldn't know how to set up a training drill for an under 12 team, and that was someone with a lot of time for him and respect for him as a manager, but he just isn't a hands on coach. If there was any respect issues early, and the mix of coaches around him wasn't as successful as what he has around him now at Dundalk, then Kenny could be a disaster, that would potentially do long term damage to both the national team and the prospects of the league of Ireland being taken seriously.

[Kingdom]

Cheers. I remember hearing it on the radio going into a hurling match in cork it was a lovely sunny day. I remember thinking we lacked that sort of playmaker type in our squad at the time.

Whooosh, if I'm reading the absolute sarcasm of bttw

[brine3]

Yeah he makes a very strong case for himself, and great to hear belief and positivity. Sick of the defeatist attitude.
Shame the article cuts shorts when he goes into detail.
But feel a Kenny appointment needs to be combined with a FAI structural revamp and Delaney leaving. That's why I'd lean to a short term appointment that knows the ropes, with structural reform in the meantime and then a Kenny appointment.

OK, but a window to structural reform is possible at the moment because things are going so poorly and all our structural weaknesses are exposed.

If we paper over the cracks with an interim manager and limp to Euro 2020, we are looking at another 5-10 years of Delaney.

[tetsujin1979]

There's no way Delaney isn't going to be in charge for the Euro 2020 games in Aviva stadium

[The Fly]

Did balls just make that up? No quotes from Clemente, and there's more about him wanting the job five years ago than anything else

According to balls.ie...former Spain Manager Javier Clemente puts his name in the hat -

https://www.balls.ie/football/javier-clemente-401397

[IsMiseSean]

From the names be thrown around at the moment, I'd favour Mick - but there is no rush in hiring someone.

As said above - wait until all the CVs come in and call the best candidates back for interviews. We don't need someone in place for the draw.
I'd aim to have a manager in place by Christmas or early January at the latest.

[brine3]

in my 30+ years following ROI mccarthys teams played the best football. Always got the best out of players and very successfully reinvented stan as a ctre back in the team for example.
he fell out with Roy and nobody else.

Jack was was past it and his tactics were out of date. When we appointed Mick we did go forward a bit tactically. We took a punt on a 37 year old with very little management experience. Mick wasn't a 'safe pair of hands' at the time either. But the FAI were rewarded for thinking forwardly at the time.

Maybe they should also think forwardly this time around...

[jbyrne]

Jack was was past it and his tactics were out of date. When we appointed Mick we did go forward a bit tactically. We took a punt on a 37 year old with very little management experience. Mick wasn't a 'safe pair of hands' at the time either. But the FAI were rewarded for thinking forwardly at the time.

Maybe they should also think forwardly this time around...

jack wasnt past it and his tactics were different but not out of date. i read during the week that he studied the 86 WC closely to establish a way to play and compete with the bigger teams and came up with his tactics accordingly. you cant argue that a manager that qualified for 2 wcs and a euros within a 6 year period implemented out of date tactics. should we be tactically fashionable at the expense of success??

[geysir]

You see, that's the whole misunderstanding and the problem with not actually listening to what people say. Nathan Murphy is very wound up in the first conversation with Kilbane, just look at his body language while he's waiting to jump in with his own points. They end up discussing different things.

It's not a "respect in the dressing room" issue. Kilbane never mentions the word 'respect' when making his points', he only mentions it to correct Murphy's misinterpretation (and clearly yours too).


NM- "Who are the players who wouldn't respect him?"

KK- "I never said they wouldn't respect him. I said if you're looking for an immediate response from a manager when he walks in to the dressing room, or walks into the building, Mick McCarthy would immediately grab you more than Stephen Kenny".


He was speaking in the context of which manager is more likely to get an immediate bounce to help us qualify for Euro 2020. He believes the players would be more familiar with McCarthy, so he's more likely to inspire a quicker reaction. He also thinks McCarthy's experience and reputation would help him if the immediate results aren't great, compared to Kenny, who might be considered out of his depth having never managed at a very high level previously.

He actually indicates that Kenny might be the better longer term option, suggesting that he's better tactically and on the training ground than McCarthy. If he really is a McCarthy 'cheerleader', this is a very strange thing to say, especially seeing as he played under him.

Kilbane believes that it would be safer to go down the "tried and trusted" route considering the importance of qualifying for these Euros. That's open for discussion of course but it's hardly an unreasonable position.


Despite all of this, and Kilbane correcting Murphy's misinterpretation, the latter still opens his discussion with Andrews with this:


NM- "Do you agree with Kilbane that Mick McCarthy walks into that dressing room and instantly gets more respect than Kenny does?"

And the more mature Keith responds by saying-

KA - "Immediately, yes, a little bit".


So Kilbane believes that McCarthy would be better equipped to inspire the players immediately, but Andrews actually believes that he would also get more respect, initially at least.

Andrews' personal experience with Di Matteo, etc. was interesting but irrelevant in the context of what Kilbane was suggesting really. Kilbane himself conceded that it's something Kenny could overcome by impressing the players on the training pitch.

You have to give links to the Kilbane interview Del, because I listened to a hyper excited Killer on the radio and he named names of players who would not respect Kenny. I think he named 2 or 3. I clearly got the impression that he attached import to this.

You have chopped (not snipped) Keith's explanation, rendering the context meaningless.
Keith Andrews in answer to the respect question, immediately toned down the import of the respect affect to a matter of no importance at all. He attached no importance to that immediate little first impression, that McCarthy might have over Kenny. He said Kenny would come in at a lesser level initially but quickly he can go up those few rungs of the ladder, quickly making up any perceived gap.

That's the pertinent point, because it was assumed here by some that this was a negative on Kenny's credentials and that it was a factor in Mick's favour. Afaiac, it has about as much value as the color of a tie, 3 or 4 seconds.

[Kingdom]

in my 30+ years following ROI mccarthys teams played the best football. Always got the best out of players and very successfully reinvented stan as a ctre back in the team for example.
he fell out with Roy and nobody else.

it cant be over stated just how important it is that we hit the ground running with our next match being a qualifier in march with no friendlies before that. in that case mick is the best choice. kenny would need a few matches to find his feet and we dont have that luxury this time around

You've stated this Stan = great centre-back line a few times now. What examples of great performances from centre-back where Stan stemmed the tide time and again, in performances that equate to greatness. Seriously, when?

I'll give my response again: it wasn't great, it was a bad move. And the examples I will cite are as follows: Netherlands home where he was so poor it wasn't funny; Cameroon ; Germany; Spain. Each time Staunton wasn't average, he was poor. And it's not a grudge, it's not vengeance, because he was a magnificent left midfielder for us and a damn good left-back.
But the centre-back role did not suit him.

[osarusan]

Decent comments from Kenny in that article.

No need for a speedy and possibly kneejerk appointment though. I hope the FAI do their research and look at what they feel the squad needs, what they think the squad is realistically capable of in terms of styles of play and results, and look for a manager with a track record of achieving those things in recent years, in particular, a track record of developing tactics and styles of play that best utilise the resources at their disposal.

I honestly wonder if the FAI are putting together criteria like that in their search for a manager.


In a way, the imminent hosting of games in Euro 2020 might be a bit of a spanner in the works to anything longer term.

[Kingdom]

I'd like to see a wider search and a proper interview process than just saying McCarthy or Kenny. I've got reservations about both. McCarthy is certainly the more predictable short term option, everyone knows what he's about, he's not afraid to use young players, he's been through various rebuilding phases, including his first time with the Irish team, and he'll just get on with making the best of what's available to him. His Irish teams were certainly capable of playing some football, maybe the memory is tinged with some rose tinted glasses, but my memory of the 2002 team was that they largely outplayed Spain in the last 16 game.

My worry with Kenny is that people seem to think he's a real training ground manager and an attention to detail guy, and that's not really his thing. One of the problems when he took over from Mick O'Neill at Rovers was partly down to the fact that O'Neill was a real details and analysis and set pieces guy but Kenny isn't, and the squad didn't adapt. There was also respect issues there, some of the senior players under O'Neill who weren't familiar with Kenny, just didn't respect him, there was recordings doing the rounds at the time of players taking the pee out of him. Someone who'd be very familiar told me Kenny wouldn't know how to set up a training drill for an under 12 team, and that was someone with a lot of time for him and respect for him as a manager, but he just isn't a hands on coach. If there was any respect issues early, and the mix of coaches around him wasn't as successful as what he has around him now at Dundalk, then Kenny could be a disaster, that would potentially do long term damage to both the national team and the prospects of the league of Ireland being taken seriously.

There's no chance that they just didn't like Kenny, and didn't like/appreciate the different voice from an equally successful manager to the one they'd had themselves?
Who did Kenny have as his assistants at Rovers? Was it not Vinny Perth?

[DeLorean]

You have to give links to the Kilbane interview Del, because I listened to a hyper excited Killer on the radio and he named names of players who would not respect Kenny. I think he named 2 or 3. I clearly got the impression that he attached import to this.

It's linked a couple of pages back. Kilbane named players who he he felt would either know very little about Kenny or not know him at all. He never said they wouldn't respect him, he actually pointed out that he never said this. So yes, I suggest you go look.

[brine3]

jack wasnt past it and his tactics were different but not out of date. i read during the week that he studied the 86 WC closely to establish a way to play and compete with the bigger teams and came up with his tactics accordingly. you cant argue that a manager that qualified for 2 wcs and a euros within a 6 year period implemented out of date tactics. should we be tactically fashionable at the expense of success??

I should emphasise that what I meant to say was that his tactics were out of date in 1995 (and had already been exposed by the Dutch and Mexicans in 1994).

In 1990 he had the ideal tactics for that particular tournament. No doubt about it.

He knew when it was time to move on though.