Next Senior Men's Team Manager - Runners and Riders

If the FAI want an Ireland based manager, I think that means the job description brief extends beyond managing the senior team – maybe they are seeking somebody that also has a wider vision/ input for the development, direction, structures feeding into the senior team? If so, this would stipulate the role is a full-time, hands-on position and being based in Ireland is a practical necessity to fulfill job expectations. That sounds good to me but finding a candidate to meet those expectations will be troublesome especially when the CEO is not leading by example ....

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Originally Posted by ifk101

If the FAI want an Ireland based manager, I think that means the job description brief extends beyond managing the senior team – maybe they are seeking somebody that also has a wider vision/ input for the development, direction, structures feeding into the senior team? If so, this would stipulate the role is a full-time, hands-on position and being based in Ireland is a practical necessity to fulfill job expectations...

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Which means…they want Stephen Kenny!

The FAI are playing 4D chess here.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Yes, an England based CEO wants an Ireland based senior manager. That rules out all names mentioned so far, no?

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I hope this isn't as straight forward as you make it and Dan reports it but I'm concerned that it is.

Between the pay debacle and the fact that this guy can't secure a sponsor whilst coming from a commercial background and this, the guy is an absolute cod...

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

I hope this isn't as straight forward as you make it and Dan reports it but I'm concerned that it is.

Between the pay debacle and the fact that this guy can't secure a sponsor whilst coming from a commercial background and this, the guy is an absolute cod...

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He has also been caught taking an unauthorised 20k?! what are we waiting for here

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

I hope this isn't as straight forward as you make it and Dan reports it but I'm concerned that it is.

Between the pay debacle and the fact that this guy can't secure a sponsor whilst coming from a commercial background and this, the guy is an absolute cod...

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he's a cod Bill!

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

I hope this isn't as straight forward as you make it and Dan reports it but I'm concerned that it is.

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Dan is saying it's more nuanced than that on Twitter, in among the replies to his main article.

Dan McD: "I think it’s more about finding a halfway house between complete disconnect that existed with previous absentee managers … and obviously it’s not going to be another Kenny in terms of visibility but they did create culture of regular meetings/presence in FAI HQ".

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Originally Posted by The Fly

Which means…they want Stephen Kenny!

The FAI are playing 4D chess here.

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lol !

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Originally Posted by ifk101

If the FAI want an Ireland based manager, I think that means the job description brief extends beyond managing the senior team – maybe they are seeking somebody that also has a wider vision/ input for the development, direction, structures feeding into the senior team? If so, this would stipulate the role is a full-time, hands-on position and being based in Ireland is a practical necessity to fulfill job expectations. That sounds good to me but finding a candidate to meet those expectations will be troublesome especially when the CEO is not leading by example ....

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https://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/...502/363456.jpg

And so it is written.

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Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

Look at it from a personal perspective etc etc etc

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Everyone seems to be overlooking one glaring personal aspect, namely the guy is English! You know, born in England, brought up in England, has worked all his life in England (including for the English FA), while I assume his wife and family are all English, as is 75% of his own ancestry etc. Plus many/most of his schoolmates, friends, workmates etc.

Which is not to say he isn't proud of his Irish heritage and wasn't very proud to play for ROI etc. But it's not like eg half a century or more ago where some fella might go over to England to work on a building site; drink in Irish pubs of a Saturday and go to church of a Sunday; marry an Irish nurse and settle in Kilburn or Luton; go back to Ireland for the odd family funeral etc and dream of retiring back "home" when the time came. Much of which was then passed on to the next generation.

Which is in no way to disparage anyone a generation further removed, who inherited it from a grandparent and feels as Irish as Guinness etc, as Carsley may do. But other than his 40 ROI caps, is there any great evidence that he is eg another Kevin Kilbane?

And as for the caps let's face it, Carsley was never going to get even a single England cap, so that was hardly a matter of "choice", as managing either country may turn out to be.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Yes, an England based CEO wants an Ireland based senior manager. That rules out all names mentioned so far, no?

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Rules in Neil Lennon surely?

I mean the man has made huge investments in the country, land and property etc, showing where his heart lies.

No, wait...

https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Prope.....-a0222337636

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Everyone seems to be overlooking one glaring personal aspect, namely the guy is English! You know, born in England, brought up in England, has worked all his life in England (including for the English FA), while I assume his wife and family are all English, as is 75% of his own ancestry etc. Plus many/most of his schoolmates, friends, workmates etc.

Which is not to say he isn't proud of his Irish heritage and wasn't very proud to play for ROI etc. But it's not like eg half a century or more ago where some fella might go over to England to work on a building site; drink in Irish pubs of a Saturday and go to church of a Sunday; marry an Irish nurse and settle in Kilburn or Luton; go back to Ireland for the odd family funeral etc and dream of retiring back "home" when the time came. Much of which was then passed on to the next generation.

Which is in no way to disparage anyone a generation further removed, who inherited it from a grandparent and feels as Irish as Guinness etc, as Carsley may do. But other than his 40 ROI caps, is there any great evidence that he is eg another Kevin Kilbane?

And as for the caps let's face it, Carsley was never going to get even a single England cap, so that was hardly a matter of "choice", as managing either country may turn out to be.

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Worse players than Lee Carsley have got England Caps ~ A lot worse.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Worse players than Lee Carsley have got England Caps ~ A lot worse.

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yes, sure 21 cap dennis wise was part of the england squad when carsley was playing for us

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Everyone seems to be overlooking one glaring personal aspect, namely the guy is English! You know, born in England, brought up in England, has worked all his life in England (including for the English FA), while I assume his wife and family are all English, as is 75% of his own ancestry etc. Plus many/most of his schoolmates, friends, workmates etc.

Which is not to say he isn't proud of his Irish heritage and wasn't very proud to play for ROI etc. But it's not like eg half a century or more ago where some fella might go over to England to work on a building site; drink in Irish pubs of a Saturday and go to church of a Sunday; marry an Irish nurse and settle in Kilburn or Luton; go back to Ireland for the odd family funeral etc and dream of retiring back "home" when the time came. Much of which was then passed on to the next generation.

Which is in no way to disparage anyone a generation further removed, who inherited it from a grandparent and feels as Irish as Guinness etc, as Carsley may do. But other than his 40 ROI caps, is there any great evidence that he is eg another Kevin Kilbane?

And as for the caps let's face it, Carsley was never going to get even a single England cap, so that was hardly a matter of "choice", as managing either country may turn out to be.

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But lets be fair, were you not born in the island of Ireland, brought up in Ireland, schooled in Ireland etc etc. but you are sill British right?
Lee might feel English and Irish. I might be mistaken, but didn't he turn down under age caps for England instead picking Ireland ( I might be wrong on that but i did hear it somewhere)

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

But lets be fair, were you not born in the island of Ireland, brought up in Ireland, schooled in Ireland etc etc. but you are sill British right?
Lee might feel English and Irish. I might be mistaken, but didn't he turn down under age caps for England instead picking Ireland ( I might be wrong on that but i did hear it somewhere)

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Yes, I am British - it says so on my passport, the British state built the hospital I was born in and educated me etc (as well as taking taxes off me in return!)

But I am also Irish - it's obvious the moment I open my mouth! And as someone who is proud of both, there is no contradiction, any more than someone who feels eg Scottish and British.

Above all, I am Northern Irish, which for me quite happily accommodates both.

Meanwhile I don't resent others in my situation who feel differently, unless of course they deny me my own preference and try to dictate to me what I am/should be.

And getting back to Carsley, I'm guessing that he does feel both English and Irish and who knows, maybe even British as well?

My point being that there are some people on here who in suggesting that his "default position" should be the ROI job, seem to be in denial about the Englishness in him, even though that may reflect his self-identification more than his Irishness.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Yes, I am British - it says so on my passport, the British state built the hospital I was born in and educated me etc (as well as taking taxes off me in return!)

But I am also Irish - it's obvious the moment I open my mouth! And as someone who is proud of both, there is no contradiction, any more than someone who feels eg Scottish and British.

Above all, I am Northern Irish, which for me quite happily accommodates both.

Meanwhile I don't resent others in my situation who feel differently, unless of course they deny me my own preference and try to dictate to me what I am/should be.

And getting back to Carsley, I'm guessing that he does feel both English and Irish and who knows, maybe even British as well?

My point being that there are some people on here who in suggesting that his "default position" should be the ROI job, seem to be in denial about the Englishness in him, even though that may reflect his self-identification more than his Irishness.

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Carsley doesn't feel British enough to sing GSTQ at matches though

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Carsley doesn't feel British enough to sing GSTQ at matches though

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I don't sing it either. (Or GSTK)

He grew up in a one parent home where his Irishness was front and centre. He also says at the time, it wasn’t really even a choice.

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"I got called up by England and Ireland’s U21 squad on the same day but never really considered it (England). I was playing well at the time after getting into the Derby team at 19 and was playing in the same team as Paul McGrath.

My football idol was Paul and I was lucky enough to play with him at Derby for seven months towards the end of his career. Just to see him in action first-hand was fantastic.

"I’d been a big fan; watching all the games he played for Ireland, including the World Cup.

"He inspired me to want to go on and replicate some of the experiences he had. I obviously never reached the heights he had with Ireland, but at the time, that was my goal.

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It was back when myself and Kevin Kilbane were both doing our coaching badges,'' he said. "We spoke to the FAI and asked if they'd consider us in the future, that we'd love to help out with future internationals.

"They took our details. Took our phone numbers, and that was it. That's as far as it went. It's a shame, really. The fact that a lot of the ex-internationals are now getting involved with the FAI is a positive.

"Don't get me wrong, just because you played for Ireland doesn't automatically mean you should coach there. You should earn your stripes, you should be at a certain level and you should want to develop the game.

Myself and Kevin were both in that bracket at the time. We were looking to improve the standard of players and teams that were coming through in Ireland.

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Just a few interesting quotes I came across this morning. Fair to say, he’s had a complicated relationship with Ireland (though not his Irishness) and, how I’d put it, some issues with how he’s seen in Ireland. He seems to feel a bit under-appreciated but also admits he never was able to show his best - and it seems to eat at him a bit. He hated his WC02 experience and being away from his family and his newborn son who has Downs Syndrome.

So about a month ago I put a bet on Carsley at 10/3. Max allowed was €150 on PP. Yesterday Carsley was at 10/1 on SkyBet so I tried to put €100 on and the max allowed was €50. That €50 bet brought the odds into 6/1.

Maybe I'm wrong here but to me the fact that they are limiting to such small amounts and small bets are changing the odds so much shows that the bookies have little, if any more info than we have.

This morning I read a story in The Mirror (yes I know). There was an interesting part though that reminded that both Trap and O'Neill initially said no while the played hardball to get the job on their terms with staff etc. I might be extremely naive, but I'm still convinced it's going to end up being Carsley

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Everyone seems to be overlooking one glaring personal aspect, namely the guy is English! You know, born in England, brought up in England, has worked all his life in England (including for the English FA), while I assume his wife and family are all English, as is 75% of his own ancestry etc. Plus many/most of his schoolmates, friends, workmates etc.

Which is not to say he isn't proud of his Irish heritage and wasn't very proud to play for ROI etc. But it's not like eg half a century or more ago where some fella might go over to England to work on a building site; drink in Irish pubs of a Saturday and go to church of a Sunday; marry an Irish nurse and settle in Kilburn or Luton; go back to Ireland for the odd family funeral etc and dream of retiring back "home" when the time came. Much of which was then passed on to the next generation.

Which is in no way to disparage anyone a generation further removed, who inherited it from a grandparent and feels as Irish as Guinness etc, as Carsley may do. But other than his 40 ROI caps, is there any great evidence that he is eg another Kevin Kilbane?

And as for the caps let's face it, Carsley was never going to get even a single England cap, so that was hardly a matter of "choice", as managing either country may turn out to be.

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You are making an awful lot of assumptions about Carsley without knowing any facts - so just to scratch the surface to enlighten you (and Stu has already given you some quotes) -

Carsley was raised in a single parent household - the Irish side of the family. When he broke into the DErby team he was called into the England and Ireland U21 squads at the same time - and he said himself about England that he 'never considered it'. He nearly ended up playing gaelic football rather than soccer because he spent a lot of time growing up with his cousins in Dunmanway.

One of the first things he did when he started coaching was himself and Kevin Kilbane approached and met with the FAI about working with Irish underage players in Ireland and in England - the FAI stupidly chose not to follow up on the offer from Carsley.

In terms of his view of his career (and this is from a recent interview) - 'I’ve got a long-term vision of where I see myself as a coach. Management is in that vision but not within the next week or so. It’s a long-term plan and I’ve still got a lot of things to develop before I’m ready. I want it to be a long-term profession, I want to be a top manager and I’m still in what I would call an apprenticeship phase.'

The reality is that Lee Carsley is going to do what is right for Lee Carsley - and I for one would acknowledge that he has every right to do just that. If the FAI are demanding an Irish based manager then that could be the deal breaker for Carsley because he would not be willing to disrupt his family life in such a fashion.

Wouldn't an Irish manager have to spend a huge amount of time in England watching / evaluating Irish players in England ? !

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Wouldn't an Irish manager have to spend a huge amount of time in England watching / evaluating Irish players in England ? !

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Please take your logic elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Please take your logic elsewhere.

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Make sure the FAI don't see my post = = That kind of logic would be a bit beyond them , I fear !

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Exclusively so, forsaking all others as with eg Kevin Kilbane?

Or 50:50(?), as in Declan Rice. Or 25:75(?), as per Jolly Jack Greaish?

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Well I’m going off what he says here. But of course I could be wrong. I’m often wrong

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Well I’m going off what he says here. But of course I could be wrong. I’m often wrong

https://youtu.be/NRy3jEukp1E?si=i8TU464nJWezzkRS

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That’s a class video. Not one I’ve seen before. Cheers fixer

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Please take your logic elsewhere.

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And not like the manager could travel over to Ireland now and then to do some work with the other underage managers.

There's also a magical thing called remote working too so not like he can't log onto Zoom to have meetings with the other coaches. Heck company I work for we work with teams in the USA, Europe, Asia, and Australia on projects and we get by working together remotely.

If a billion dollar MNC can make it work then I'm sure a manager could make it work.

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Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant

You are making an awful lot of assumptions about Carsley without knowing any facts - so just to scratch the surface to enlighten you (and Stu has already given you some quotes) -

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That's the whole point - a lot of people are making assumptions about him and concluding for him what he "should" do, whereas I'm saying that it may not be so straightforward, certainly not so much as to state: "My hate [for LC] is reserved until a) it is official and b) there’s a sense as to why." - SKStu, post #911.

Certainly people have pointed to quotations and a video which affirm his sense of Irishness, but even with the latter LC said "there wasn't anything to think about" back when he was a youngster growing up with his background etc.

But that was 3 or 4 decades ago and age and experience such as eg being poorly treated by the FAI versus being well treated by The FA, can colour previously strongly-held thinking.

While I've seen myself how people like Conor Bradley, Niall McGinn or Martin O'Neill can opt eg to play for NI without that compromising whatever political beliefs or questions of identity they may or may not hold.

In other words, and as (ahem) SKStu said in post #937, it's complicated, meaning people shouldn't rush to judge him either way, whatever he decides.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

That's the whole point - a lot of people are making assumptions about him and concluding for him what he "should" do, whereas I'm saying that it may not be so straightforward, certainly not so much as to state: "My hate [for LC] is reserved until a) it is official and b) there’s a sense as to why." - SKStu, post #911.

Certainly people have pointed to quotations and a video which affirm his sense of Irishness, but even with the latter LC said "there wasn't anything to think about" back when he was a youngster growing up with his background etc.

But that was 3 or 4 decades ago and age and experience such as eg being poorly treated by the FAI versus being well treated by The FA, can colour previously strongly-held thinking.

While I've seen myself how people like Conor Bradley, Niall McGinn or Martin O'Neill can opt eg to play for NI without that compromising whatever political beliefs or questions of identity they may or may not hold.

In other words, and as (ahem) SKStu said in post #937, it's complicated, meaning people shouldn't rush to judge him either way, whatever he decides.

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Well I agree that there are a lot of factors in his taking the job and if he doesn't I would have no problem with it. Just as I had no problem with him taking time away from international football to be with his family. I was disappointed but I respect his decision.
There are things more important than football after all.

Ex TD Ruth Coppinger has come out against Lennon

Neil Lennon is favourite to manage Ireland men’s soccer team & has a history of harassment & threats against a woman with whom he was having an affair. Under no circumstances should the #FAI which gets state funds appoint someone like this to such a public role. No role model.

& more :

Sport & politics into the cocktail shaker there.

Important I think not to dismiss the possibility that Carsley would love to manage Ireland but wants to be paid what he thinks he's worth and might not necessarily want to work for the FAI as it exists.

It's not reasonable in this day-and-age to insist on an Ireland based manager. If that's the FAI's stance, our eventual manager will be of a much lower quality than might have been otherwise.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Important I think not to dismiss the possibility that Carsley would love to manage Ireland but wants to be paid what he thinks he's worth and might not necessarily want to work for the FAI as it exists.

It's not reasonable in this day-and-age to insist on an Ireland based manager. If that's the FAI's stance, our eventual manager will be of a much lower quality than might have been otherwise.

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Salary may not be the only blocker or may be a blocker alongside others i.e. backroom team, frequency of visits to Ireland, responsibility over other layers in the overall system. Items like these may also be having an impact on his decision.

Marc Canham has a "Director of Football" role and they have made it clear that the role is a "Head Coach" role with other responsibilities. What if he doesn't think Canham is any use and can't work as Head Coach, gain clarity on the other responsibilities and wrap his head around where his success begins and Canham's ends?

John Fallon in today's Examiner:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/...-41320303.html

Lee Carsley was identified as the most suitable person for the post but discussions with the England U21 manager haven't so far reached a satisfactory outcome.

It’s understood that time will be devoted to the reasons for this blockage, which is considered retrievable rather than a flat refusal.

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Well I agree that there are a lot of factors in his taking the job and if he doesn't I would have no problem with it. Just as I had no problem with him taking time away from international football to be with his family. I was disappointed but I respect his decision.
There are things more important than football after all.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

John Fallon in today's Examiner:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/...-41320303.html

Lee Carsley was identified as the most suitable person for the post but discussions with the England U21 manager haven't so far reached a satisfactory outcome.

It’s understood that time will be devoted to the reasons for this blockage, which is considered retrievable rather than a flat refusal.

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So is Carsely still in the game?

If Examiner is correct, yes. My instinctive view is that he's still a runner.

Ralph Hasenhüttl was suggested by Second Captains on Twitter earlier, just to stir debate.

Ralph H. Would be amazing

The events of the last week are a fascinating insight into the malaise of modern journalism, the piggy back nature of it and the need for content correct or not.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

If Examiner is correct, yes. My instinctive view is that he's still a runner.

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I love him again!!

If Carsley was out of the running and the FAI were going to their back up option I'd be fairly certain that they would do that today at the board meeting and it would be announced that they have their man. The fact that they havent shows the Carsley deal isnt dead.

Grafter is 100% right that all the stories of recent days seemed to piggyback the Daily Mail story. Even the bookies reacted to that story. Similarly they all jumped on board a day earlier when someone reported that it was a done deal.

Throughout the entire process there have been no leaks from the FAI, and thats a credit to them. The only time there were any leaks of any relevant nature were when Carsley was supposedly talking to clubs. That happened at a stage when the process seemed to be dragging out and I speculated at the time that it was Carsleys camp trying to force the issue a little. Isnt it funny how he hasnt been linked with a single club ever since that 2 week period when he was linked with about 5.

Its not unusual for any potential employee who is head hunted to bargain hard. If a company wants you, you make sure that you get then to offer you everything you want before you accept the job, once you are in its much harder to get those things from the employer. Carsley is an admistrator too. He was Professional Development Phase lead for the FA before becoming U21 manager. Similarly he was head of Youth Development at Man City, so he is used to doing things his own way. He would want full control of his staff and be very clear about his role and responsibilities before accepting the Ireland job and Im sure he doesnt want any interference from Packie Bonner and his ilk.

I've been confident all along, even doubled down in the bookies when the odds shot up, and I think by this time next week we'll have clarity.

Would have to think the public/supporter backlash against Lennon hasn't gone unnoticed as well. Especially when they see political figures getting involved in the debate in terms of women's rights issues etc., that's got to be giving them second thoughts about going down that road and how it might impact on their own positions if Lennon's personal life became a national issue.

FAI give update on Ireland manager search after Abbotstown meeting – via https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...804178514.html


"Despite strong reports from across the water that England U-21 boss Lee Carsley is out of the running, it’s understood that he remains a key figure in the FAI’s thinking. They met Neil Lennon last week and the Armagh native reiterated his interest in another punditry appearance while the board meeting was taking place but the extending of the process does not appear to be a positive for his prospects given his clear availability."

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

FAI give update on Ireland manager search after Abbotstown meeting – via https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...804178514.html


"Despite strong reports from across the water that England U-21 boss Lee Carsley is out of the running, it’s understood that he remains a key figure in the FAI’s thinking. They met Neil Lennon last week and the Armagh native reiterated his interest in another punditry appearance while the board meeting was taking place but the extending of the process does not appear to be a positive for his prospects given his clear availability."

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So, its Lennon then (wink wink)