Trap Out and/or Delaney Out

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

Remember when I told you Armenia would beat Slovakia AB. They actually went on to hammer them. Sweden are not a good enough team to get 3 points in Kazakhstan.

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Which is all fine and dandy assuming if we are 'good' enough to beat Sweden & Austria. Plus then even make the play-off's and get a fortunate draw.
That's rather too many 'ifs'...

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Originally Posted by mypost

He will get a new contract.

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By which time he'd be 76-77, which without being ageist doesn't seem like an ideal given the demands of the job?

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On the "evidence" so far, we were apparantly going to struggle to beat the puffins and get destroyed 0-5 in Sweden, whereas the evidence that counts is on the table.

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As long as we beat the Faroes, our result is irrelevant and whilst not losing to Sweden is creditable, I see precious little evidence of beating anyone higher-ranked at home with this manager's approach/tactics.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

I've really enjoyed our last two games. We created some excellent scoring chances in both games and I still expect us to just about get second place (Sweden will struggle to beat Kaz away). If we do qualify (as I expect) then what happens to Trapatonni? There are a few scenarios whereby Trapatonni could still be in charge come Euro 2016 Qualifying. Qualifying for the WC and then getting out of the group would change everything. Might look like a long, long shot viewing this from today but the WC usually has 'easier' groups then the Euros. Delaney will go with the flow of course.

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Slovakia are not as good as Sweden and they didn't have a Ibrahimovic who can turn the game on its head, Armenia play a lot better football than the Kazakhs, and Sweden play them when they are towards the end of the qualifying campaign with nothing to play for. Armenia were always in the hunt up to their game against us. Too many factors that don't compare favourably with that game between Armenia and Slovakia. Sweden will win in Kazakhstan - just. Just like they did in the faroes.

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Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

I've been thinking about this in the last few days, and was thinking about Trap saying we have no right to expect to compete against Germany and his latest post Austria comment about "not being Germany, not being England". Those two comments are, for me, probably the most irritating and negative thing that he's done thus far. I thought they were disgraceful and stupid things to say. It got me thinking of how we used to play the bigger teams with no fear, even if we've Tommy Coyne up-front against Italy, or a Blackburn Rovers sub on the wing against Holland.

I'm not saying Ireland need some madman in charge who just talks up the players, but I do think our next manager needs to have a little bit of that in him. Certainly more than Trap does anyway.

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I know what you're saying and I even typed something kind of similar after hearing an interview with Keith Andrews some time back. He had basically said that if they played Germany again in the morning the chances would be pretty high that we'd get hammered again. True as it may be it was fairly depressing to hear an established player admitting it. The same guy had given us a chance of winning the Euros eight or nine months earlier!

I don't think that kind of stuff counts for too much though. We have got results in Italy, Bulgaria, France, Russia, Slovakia and Sweden under his management, so clearly the players aren't suffering too much from the 'inferiority complex' some of his comments imply. Who knows, maybe he even does it as a kind of reverse psychology motivating tool!

Let's look at the context of his "we're not Germany" remarks. He was saying that we have no right to be expecting to beat Austria. I personally think we have every right to be disappointed not beating an Austria team that was there for the taking and largely because of selections, tactical approach and use of the bench. I don't care if Kevin Doyle hadn't been playing well for Wolves. He's a different class to Sammon, as is Walters (and even Leon Best), and Trap's judgment in that regard was dreadful in my opinion.


Comparing us (or not) to Germany was daft and irrelevant, because we all know they're a cut above what we can even dream of being like. His comments were a bogus tactic of deflection.

I empathise with Owls Fan saying be careful of wishing Trap out as what comes in may be worse. On balance I disagree and quite frankly I'll be happy with hoofball if it seems to be the best approach. I think this has been proven not to be the case. (This last bit was prompted by the Pulis / purist debate just above). If we have a knack of grinding out ugly narrow wins over our group rivals at home I'll take ugly all day long.

I don't agree with Noely about the Austria game. I thought we approached the Austria game all wrong and we went to pieces after a good spell early in the second half.

Thank Goodness we are not German. Who would want to be German, punctuality aside?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Let's look at the context of his "we're not Germany" remarks. He was saying that we have no right to be expecting to beat Austria. I personally think we have every right to be disappointed not beating an Austria team that was there for the taking and largely because of selections, tactical approach and use of the bench. I don't care if Kevin Doyle hadn't been playing well for Wolves. He's a different class to Sammon, as is Walters (and even Leon Best), and Trap's judgment in that regard was dreadful in my opinion.


Comparing us (or not) to Germany was daft and irrelevant, because we all know they're a cut above what we can even dream of being like. His comments were a bogus tactic of deflection.

I empathise with Owls Fan saying be careful of wishing Trap out as what comes in may be worse. On balance I disagree and quite frankly I'll be happy with hoofball if it seems to be the best approach. I think this has been proven not to be the case. (This last bit was prompted by the Pulis / purist debate just above). If we have a knack of grinding out ugly narrow wins over our group rivals at home I'll take ugly all day long.

I don't agree with Noely about the Austria game. I thought we approached the Austria game all wrong and we went to pieces after a good spell early in the second half.

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When the Trap was spouting that nonsense about not being Germany I wish a journalist shouted out 'what about Montenegro?'. Tiny country and top a group containing England, Ukraine and Poland.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

Thank Goodness we are not German. Who would want to be German, punctuality aside?

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Great football league, prospoperous country, well-educated, provides jobs for its young, has great towns and cities, great beer, has its own ski resorts, they make great cars, great institutional structures, great appreciation of the long-term rather than a "get rich quick and let the devil take the hindmost" approach, Claudia Schaeffer.

I think being born German wouldn't be the worst random draw outcome.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

When the Trap was spouting that nonsense about not being Germany I wish a journalist shouted out 'what about Montenegro?'. Tiny country and top a group containing England, Ukraine and Poland.

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To which Trap could reply... "Montenegro?? I didn't notice them at the Euros"

By the way, I don't think Trap was saying we can't expect to beat Austria as we are not Germany, England, etc. He was responding (straight after a galling end to a match) to a stupid question by TO'D as to whether or not he would now resign because we didn't beat Austria. I think he was referring to the fact that we are still in contention for second and we're never going to be able to waltz through groups with no set backs like Germany can.

Fair response re-TOD alright even though I still think it contained a degree of defeatism, which would be consistent with his broad approach to managing us and how he sets us up.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Great football league, prospoperous country, well-educated, provides jobs for its young, has great towns and cities, great beer, has its own ski resorts, they make great cars, great institutional structures, great appreciation of the long-term rather than a "get rich quick and let the devil take the hindmost" approach, Claudia Schaeffer.

I think being born German wouldn't be the worst random draw outcome.

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You've shown your age right there stutts.

Ill now show mine. Diane Kruger.

To the totty thread!!!

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

By which time he'd be 76-77, which without being ageist doesn't seem like an ideal given the demands of the job?

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You would have to ask him how ideal it is. To me, he seems to be as committed to the job as he was when he started.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

I wanted Trap gone a long time ago. The worst game for me (before the Euro finals)was the Slovakia game away when we drew 1-1. We settled for a draw against mediocre team missing all of their top players. The lack of ambition and the continuing mistakes by players like Given and Whelan was really ****ing me off. The Euro shambles followed and then the hammering by Germany should have seen Trap out the door.

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The result by Germany came as a result of half a team unavailable and going 4-4-2 after half time. The Euro "shambles" was losing to both finalists that nobody else, Germany included could get past either. The result in Slovakia was a vital point against a "mediocre" side who had just beaten Russia and Italy weeks before. Without it, there would have been no Euros across the border for us to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

When Trap was spouting about not being Germany I wish a journalist shouted out 'what about Montenegro?'

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All very well, but when the time came for the crunch, they lost 3-0 to Czech Republic in the playoff for Euro 2012. We beat Estonia 5-1. There's the difference.

Ya that's the only difference, nothing to do with the fact that czech team were far better than the Estonian team we faced. You compare black with white as though they are the same thing.

Aren't they the same thing?
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...sm4ygNowlYZKSy

It's not comparing like for like to be fair.

That said, I wouldn't rate Ukraine or Poland any higher than Slovakia or Bulgaria who we had to finish ahead of in the last two campaigns and Germany are on another planet to England, who will probably still finish ahead of Montenegro if they can beat them at Wembley.

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Originally Posted by mypost

The result by Germany came as a result of half a team unavailable and going 4-4-2 after half time. The Euro "shambles" was losing to both finalists that nobody else, Germany included could get past either. The result in Slovakia was a vital point against a "mediocre" side who had just beaten Russia and Italy weeks before. Without it, there would have been no Euros across the border for us to look forward to.

All very well, but when the time came for the crunch, they lost 3-0 to Czech Republic in the playoff for Euro 2012. We beat Estonia 5-1. There's the difference.

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Heard of positive spin but this is ridiculous. You're not comparing like with like.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

When the Trap was spouting that nonsense about not being Germany I wish a journalist shouted out 'what about Montenegro?'. Tiny country and top a group containing England, Ukraine and Poland.

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we were the Montenegro of europe before punching well above our weight. there is always one or two but at the end of qualifying its the usual suspects that qualify with the one or two exceptions from time to time.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

Thank Goodness we are not German. Who would want to be German, punctuality aside?

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Decent beer, food and an opposite sex who don't typically look like the back end of a heifer...
:)

Oh and what Stutts said.

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Originally Posted by mypost

The Euro "shambles" was losing to both finalists that nobody else, Germany included could get past either.

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- We also lost to Croatia.
- We had an aggregate score of 9 goals against and 1 for in all games.
- We were massively outplayed by everyone we encountered.
- We were by far the poorest team in the compettition.
- We let Paul Green come onto the pitch in Irish colours in front of a television audience of several hundred million people.

Other than that we had a good tournament. Therefore the double quotes are entirely justified.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

- We also lost to Croatia.
- We had an aggregate score of 9 goals against and 1 for in all games.
- We were massively outplayed by everyone we encountered.
- We were by far the poorest team in the compettition.
- We let Paul Green come onto the pitch in Irish colours in front of a television audience of several hundred million people.

Other than that we had a good tournament. Therefore the double quotes are entirely justified.

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I don't know what game you were watching, but I didn't see us being "massively outplayed" by Croatia. With a decent run of the ball I think we could have achieved a draw out in that game for reasons I won't bore everyone again with. The two finalists and Croatia. Croatia who have not ended a calendar year outside the top 10 of Fifa's rankings since 2006 and who had not lost any of their four opening matches at a European Championship.

Yes, we were the poorest team results wise in the competition results wise but I wonder how the other lowest ranked side would have got on in our group.

Paul Green - the butt of jokes of many anti-Trap activists. How did you think he got on against Sweden recently? He is a workman like Championship player, like some of our other squad members, and does not deserve the opprobrium heaped upon him