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He did very well for Charlton in the premiership and his first half season with Sunderland. In a central position though.Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
The commentator of the match on Tuesday said he has followed Reid's career from the start and actually thought he was doing well for Spurs and was surprised they let him go.
I wasn't, I was reasonably regular at Spurs when he was there (I witnessed his one and only goal against Villa) and he wasn't up to the grade, that said Spurs were a decent side when he was there especially the second season when they should have finished 4th, he struggled to get into the team and when he did he couldn't nail down a placeQuote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Reidy was outstanding for Charlton. MOM nearly every week. He can cut it at that level no bother.
Maybe he reads foot.ie. After all, the site seems to be proliferated by "lose weight fast" advertisements lately.
lampard is an example of a player who upped his game after losing weight. I took over a minute off my 10k times last year just by losing 1kg. It all counts!
even while not at peak condition he was still a fit player, capable of putting in a hard shift over the 90 minutes. We don't doubt that. However, now he's lost weight, how much better can he get?
It's a simple fact that more weight requires more oxygen & energy to carry. Look at Bradley Wiggins in this year's TdF, and he was already in superb condition. He probably went too far and can't sustain his TdF weight without compromising his health, but it's still illustrative.
Interesting article here:
http://thesportfactory.com/site/trai...r_Engine.shtml
A simple analogy would be that your car would be less fuel efficient if the boot was full of suitcases.
That Level being bottom 3 in the EPL or the Chump?Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Don't get me wrong, I like him and would love him to prove me wrong but he has failed to deliver consistently anywhere above the bottom half of the EPL (and I think I'm being generous with that statement) so while i think he merits his place in the squad I wouldn't have him starting except home games against minnows where he might be able to create something different.
Does that not just equate to him failing to deliver consistently at Spurs considering they're the only top half premiership team he played for?Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
He's hardly set the world alight at Sunderland either which is why I said I was being generous with my "above bottom half" & I wasn't sure where Sunderand finished in when Reid went there first and so was giving him the benefit of the doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
I've lost a little under 4kg since the start of the year. Been scoring for fun in a weekly afterwork seven a side in recent weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
He lost that weight, doesn't mean he needed to!Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Regradless ot the correctness of your statement, even a Fat Andy provides WAY more quality than a fit Miller and many more. He was obviously left out of the squad for more reasons than perceived fitness issues.
At the very least, a slimmer Reid playing for Sunderland regularily will effect a positive change in perception about the professional ambitions of the player, upon the Irish management.
I'd say there's a huge chance that Sunderland would have been relegated if they didn't sign Reid.Quote:
Originally Posted by endabob1
Aston Villa 0-1 Sunderland
"The team showed the measured calm and assurance of their manager: with Andy Reid dictating play in midfield, Sunderland created a succession of half-chances, only to be let down by a lack of confidence in front of goal."
Man of the match: Reid.
Sunderland 2-1 West Ham
"While it may be pushing it to suggest that he is Sunderland's answer to Ferenc Puskas, few would deny that the Dubliner appears the antithesis of the "modern" Premier League midfielder. Or that Reid has transformed Keane's side since arriving from Charlton in January. Curvier, slower and generally less athletic than his more conventionally constructed counterparts he may be but Reid boasts the sharpest football brain and the best left foot in Sunderland's dressing room.
Like his manager he can see the bigger picture and routinely spots openings before anyone else. Able to deliver laser- like long-range passes with minimal backlift, he compensates lack of pace by the sort of adhesive touch that enables him to control and release the ball more quickly than most team-mates."
Man of the match Andy Reid The man whose vision and passing range has given Sunderland a hitherto missing creative edge which has inspired their recent renaissance. Typically Reid helped create the equaliser before wrapping up the points on the whistle
Fulham 1-3 Sunderland
Reid 8/10
I don't know how you get your information Eirebhoy, but you sure know how to back up your argument. The fact is Andy Reid could be just what we need in midfield to bring on, even if not to start (though IMO he should start) No one else can pick a pass in our squad like him. We all know its not over weight that Andy is not in the squad and I'll be damned if we don't manage to qualify because a stubborn old Italian man won't forgive and forget when the interests of our nations football team are at stake.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
I am just amazed at the number of posters in here who cannot recognise the abilities of Andy (plus or minus 5kg) mentioned above, and the absolute travesty of him not even being in our very limited squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by LFCSixty/Eighty
Told you!Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
That Villa game mentioned a few posts up in the start of Sunderland's good run to keep them up was actually Reid's first game in the centre for Sunderland. Here's graphs of his passing from some of the games in his first season with Sunderland:
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/3076/reid2008.jpg
So that shows the positions he was in and how dominant he was. It looks like he was pretty much playing central midfield.
Then here's a run of games from the previous season with Charlton:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/1528/reid2007.jpg
He a slightly different role there, probably with a starting position on the wing and the freedom to drift inside.
And then you have his most recent starts for Sunderland from last season, playing wide left:
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/6711/reid2009.jpg
Just to pick a few stats from his most dominant and least dominant games (starts).
Charlton 1-1 Everton
Reid successful passes: 51
Charlton successful passes: 331
Sunderland 2-1 West Ham
Reid successful passes: 37
Sunderland successful passes: 210
Sunderland 1-0 Hull
Reid successful passes: 15
Sunderland successful passes: 150
I haven't checked it completely but I think it's safe to say when Reid has played in the centre for his club they're far more likely to dominate. It's where he performs best, regularly winning motm, and I do think he's good enough to build a team around.
In our own version of weight watchers I have lost 13kgs and I was injured for most of it.
I don't disagree with any of that. I would suggest he'll be a better, more effective player after losing the weight now though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scram
Fact is Trap possibly values hard running and energy in the type of game he has us playing as opposed to someone spraying passes round from midfield and not running more then 10 yards.
I'd agree with that too. Doesn't mean he wasn't overweight though. And he did sod all the next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
Out of position... By all means play him out wide but with the freedom to drift about. Not stuck on the left wing, it's just not his game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
The Guardian gave Reid a 9 and its man of the match award when Sunderland played Chelsea last season. The usual snide remarks to Reid being 'curvy' and 'unathletic' were made but, yet again, the guy's vision, composure and technical excellence meant he was the most impressive guy on the field. As for Trap preferring the hard-running industrious type for his central midfield, that is certainly evidenced by Andrews and Whelan, but it also has to be considered that Trap included Reid in his first few match squads as manager, including the qualifiers in Mainz and Podgorica. So, attitude aside, Trap clearly sees Andy as being good enough and as having some role to play (rumour has it that he had decided to use Reid as a sub against Montenegro, but the post-match shenanigans in Mainz changed his mind).
For me that's the crux of the issue. Reid can't play in the way we play our wingers (stuck on the wing, chasing up and down it for 95 minutes), and he's not really a combative midfielder in the mould of Andrews, Whelan, Gibson. So he doesn't really fit in to the sytem we play.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
That makes the next question is Reid good enough to change the system to accomodate? I don't think so. We've tried to accomodate Reid in previous campaigns and ended up staying at home. That's not to completely criticise Reid's performances, but it is a different style of midfield as a whole to the one we currently play which looks like we're going to be boring and fight and scrap our way to South Africa. Besides, I can't remember on too many occasions that Reid used his undoubted talents to big effect on the national stage. I seem to remember recurring complaints about our midfield during the previous 5 or so years.
Reid does have the talent to be in the squad, for sure. But the guy's attitude has to be questioned. Every time people congratulate him for slimming down (it seems like that has happened about 3 times now) I have to question just how the feck did he end up so out of condition in the first place whereby a player is in a position to have to lose that much weight.
Of course Trap, Tardelli and Brady know Reid has the talent to be a squad player, but obviously his attitude in Mainz has done him out of that back-up role (we've all heard the rumours of what went on that infamous night). Trap knows that Reid is a good player, but for Ireland he'd be a bench player. Is it worth the ensuing circus of having all eyes focused on the subs bench, fans booing etc in the event of a game being 0-0 at half time? I think Stephen Ireland is a good enough player to justify that sort of circus, Andy Reid though isn't imo.
As has already been said he's found his rung on the ladder as being a good player in a poor enough team....if his vision and passing ability really were as decisive as some make out he simply wouldn't be in and out of a poor Sunderland side over the last couple of years.
Fair enough post but last season was his first since Spurs that he wasn't a sure starter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
I think Reid's first quarter century of caps have been better than most Irish players. From his excellent debut, to being singled out as MOTM by van Gaal against Holland to his brilliant goal on his competitive debut against Cyprus to an excellent pass for Keane's goal vs Israel to dominating the Germany game amongst others. He has had a couple of poor games but has looked comfortable at international level from day 1.
I agree he's done well enough for us (though can't remember anything of note during the Stan era, perhaps that whole time is best forgotten) but my point is that if you play Reid, while he may be doing his bit, it requires a different style of midfield to accompany him. As a whole that midfield and the different variants we tried on it over the last 5 or so years didn't work. Taking Reid out for a more technically limited player like an Andrews/Whelan/Gibson style may well be putting in a 'worse' player, but it may just benefit the team as a whole and as we all know there's more to picking the XI most talented players.
In the perfect world Reid would be able to combine his undoubted technical skills and vision with the physical attributes and engine of a more defensive/complete midfielder. Of course if he could do all that he would have more illustrious clubs than Notts Forest, Charlton and Sunderland on his CV!
Hardly likely, Trap chose Andy as a sub, told him to get warmed up in the 2nd half and get ready to come on, Tardelli with the virtual clipboard giving instructions. More likely some event on the pitch caused Trap to change his mind than a sudden memory recall of Andy swilling pints and crunching chords on his guitar.Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryPhelan
My point was that his initial decision to use Reid was made before the game, then Mainz happened and he opted against it. This is backed up by Trap's quote that:Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
"Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker."
If his decision not to use Reid was motivated by what happened in Mainz, I would not expect Trap to say so. I don't think that his decision not to use Andy was made on the touchline but in the wake of the falling out after the Georgia game.
it looks like you have the timeline in a twist.
before the Montenegro game?Quote:
My point was that his initial decision to use Reid was made before the game
Normal enough so
Mainz reveleries happened on Sat NightQuote:
then Mainz happened and he opted against it
Montenegro game the following Wed.
Terry your post simply does not make sense.
When not sure, follow the evidence.
Easy there. I meant that the decision to use Reid as a sub was made in advance of the Montenegro game and before the Mainz incident. I will try and dig out the quote from Trap that highlights this.
Terry, your quote does not support your theory.
For the Montenegro game, Andy was told by Trap to get ready to come on, he was out on the sideline ready to come on. Then after something happened on the pitch, Trap changed his mind and called Andy back to the bench
Are you saying that Trap changed his mind at that very instant because of a sudden memory recall of Mainz reveleries?
In fairness, he is getting up there in years.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Fair play, if that's what happened then I've clearly got it wrong. My understanding of the situation was that Trap had pencilled in Andy as a contingency plan for Montenegro to use off the bench and that this decision was made before the opening brace of World Cup qualifiers: Trap felt that Andy's style would work to good effect against Montenegro under certain circumstances, while not so well against Georgia. So the plan going into these games (in my understanding) was to use Andy against Montenegro but not against Georgia. Then when Mainz happened, Trap presumably felt it more important to prove a point than go ahead with the contingency plan of using Reid (in any event, the contingency event may not have even happened). I watched the Montenegro game and don't recall seeing Reid warming up or being summoned from the bench at any point, but obviously it's possible I missed it or it has slipped my memory. But I've never said that I thought Trap changed his mind on the touchline as a result of belatedly remembering the Mainz episode.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Wasn't Reid in the squad for the Cyprus at home game?
I think it was over the course of preparation for this game and Reids sulky behaviour in not being used that led Trapp to choose not to include him again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Brilliant man management
Well, international football doesn't always provide a lot of time for pandering to individuals bruised ego's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scram
I don't necessarily agree with Trapp's hardline course of action but maybe he felt he needed to set an example.
Reid has actually gone up in my estimation in relation to how he's obviously trained very hard and is actively trying to play his way back in. Let the football do the talking.
If he had adopted that attitude from the beginning, I'd harbour a guess that he wouldn't have been frozen out in the first place.
yeah, he was a sub in that game: http://www.soccerscene.ie/sssenior/m...ils.php?id=451Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
only Caleb Folan made it off the bench though
Thanks for confirmation of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
For the record, I'd far prefer to discuss Reid's playing his way back in as opposed to speculating any further as to how he got frozen out.
Its immaterial now as to how he's been missing - lets hope he continues to play well and leaves Trapp with no option but to draft him back in, in the near future.
It staggers me how much time is spent discussing Reid's weight loss / gain. If the bloke didn't have a complex about it - he does now!!.
The quote you were referring to, was Trap explaining his thinking before the Montenegro gameQuote:
Originally Posted by TerryPhelan
"Before Wednesday’s game I had on a piece of paper in my pocket three changes I might make during the match – for example Andy Reid for one striker. But I have 30 years’ experience and I knew that if we lost the support that Keane and Doyle were giving to our midfield it might be a problem. I thought also about bringing on Murphy because his style is different. But that’s normal – before every game I write who might come in for someone else but then, on the pitch itself, it’s not always possible to make those changes."
Andy was a sub for the Montenegro game. Trap singled him out for planned use. Andy remained in the squad for the Cyprus game.
The only things that have crept out after the Cyprus game was Trap motivated to say that he likes a smiling face whether you are in or out of the team. Also we had an image of Andy, glum as hell, on the subs bench.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
If that's the case though, given his effort preseason, and the dignity Reid has dealt with the whole thing over the last year and a bit (compared with say Joey O'Brien) wouldn't that warrant a recall, even for a Freindly???
Maybe we're reading too much into it. Maybe Trapp just doesn't value what he has to offer his system(s). I've heard two different versions from football people who I would consider "in the know". One says that Reid told him himself that Trapp simply doesn't rate him. Another guy fairly well involved in the school boy game said the Mainz thing was actually alot more heated than has been reported.. I dunno
For me though, he'd be in the squad every time..
I think many of us agree on this - He should be in the squad and lets hope he plays his way in.Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_peepee
Stephen Reid, Andy Reid and Stephen Ireland - all not at our disposal for very different reasons. :(
(Head in hands.................)
Just to back up Geysir: Reid was definitely stripped off and ready to come on in Montenegro.
hmmm, putting one out there then, perhaps a lesson on the part of Il Trap.....