You need to drop the e from Tracey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
You need to drop the e from Tracey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
I dunno. If we can field something like the team that started against Italy then we should be ok for most games. Then bear in mind that McCarthy, Gibson and Brady ought to be back, and Andy Reid (who has another year of good quality football left in him, at least) so we can have a stronger team even still and a decent pool of 16/17 first team candidates.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I'm glad to hear Doyle played well as I still think he has something to offer. If he displaces Long in a 4231 I'd be pleased enough.
Forde is what he is, a lower division keeper who usually looks comfortable for Ireland. I wouldn't be too worried.
I really hope O'Neill sees that Meyler and Hendrick should stay ahead of Whelan.
I think Keane will be sprung from the bench more often than not, the obvious loser if we move to 4231 permanently, which is what I expect. Again, that's fine by me.
Papers said Keogh and Duffy coped well. Irish Times report mentioned Keogh a lot. Any comment?
Missed the game last night lads - reading the posts - it doesn't seem we were that impressive
So how where we?
Did we take it on from the Italy performance or were we poor?
Positives and negatives?
He was ok but he and McLean got caught out for Campbells pass. Duffy looked like he wanted to play football, defensively he was ok bar one lapse.
have a look at the game and re-evaluate your assessment on forde, save their very poor finishing it could have been 3 or 4 to them
It was back to trap tactics botnet. very negative sitting back not pressing it was a case of 2 steps backwards 1 step forward from the italy game. I put that down to the players rather than oneill.
I'll leave the positive to towk.
Wilson was good.doyle was very good but he tired and I think a small bit effected by the head injury.
We looked good when long hoolahan and mcgeady came on.well we looked better and created a few chances.hendrick was a lot more assured than the other two midfielders.
I didn't see the game but disappointed to hear O'Neill didn't play Wes and Keane together. If there is one striker I would want on the pitch with Wes it is Robbie. He is miles ahead in terms of finishing, football intelligence, awareness etc. Throughout his career Keane has excelled with players like Wes. I don't accept for a second that they cannot be in the same team and O'Neill appeared to agree with that. Hopefully they will play against Portugal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
So they wore black?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27747167
For that goalscoring opportunity just before they won the penalty? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Keogh and Duffy did OK. I wouldn't read too much into it. There are much harder tests to come.
Some nice praise for Duffy in The Guardian
"Brian Ruiz, the former Fulham striker who spent last season at PSV, was kept extremely quiet by the robust defending of Everton’s Shane Duffy, making his international debut, and struggled to link up with Campbell to any real effect."
I know some of the alternatives have had a long season, but what can be learnt from partnering Green and Whelan at the base of midfield that the management team don't already know? I'd have far preferred to see the bustling energy of Meyler or Hendrick in there starting beside Whelan to give him a bit of impetus to show some dynamism.
Doyle is looking nicely primed to contribute effectively to the Euro 16 campaign. I don't think many would have envisaged that when Trap gave him the bullet. Strong possibility he'll be in the Premiership next season.
I think certain people tend to be a bit harsh on the players/squad we have at our disposal here. If I were to name players who could form the core of the team with provisions made for lack of form and injury, this wouldn't be all the worst:
Forde/Randolph/Westwood
Coleman/Joey O'Brien, Dunne/O'Shea/Delaney/Duffy/Pearce, Wilson/Clark
McGeady/Walters/Quinn, Meyler/McCarthy/Gibson/Hendrick/Whelan, Brady/McClean/Reid/Pilkington
Hoolahan/Keane/Long/Doyle/Stokes
I mean, I saw someone state the other day that there was a dearth of options at the top level. I'm looking that list up and down now and by 31 August, the keepers aside, the majority of those players will be at Premiership clubs (one in the MLS and one in the SPL also).
That's a very subjective list, by the by, I'm not disregarding Richard Keogh or anyone else. I was just trying to whittle down the numbers slightly to show there are options there. It's amazing that some people see Roberts Lewandowski and Snodgrass and suddenly we're weak in comparison to Poland and Scotland. I don't for a minute believe that. Christ, I remember being a primary school kid in 2002 sniggering at the very notion of Gary Breen being linked with Inter Milan. Hardly able to form my sentences, not to mind my own opinions, as I was.
International football seems to me as being a very simple game. Pick a pool of decent players, ensure they're well organised with a coherent plan and an inherent team spirit borne from patriotism and Greece can win the Euros.
What do you chaps think about the triple crown today? Do hope chrome gets busted and bet on a longshot or try to hit a trifecta? Because you cant make any money any other way really. The irish know horse racing.
Ole Ole,
I think the key is for the management to learn which players have something and which ones don't from these 4 games. It'd be no harm at all if Whelan and Green get demoted as a result of that showing, with Hendrick, Meyler and Quinn improving their status.
I'm not convinced by Joey O'Brien and one or two others, especially the back up keepers if Westwood doesn't regain match fitness, bit overall I agree. We don't have adequate cover at GK, RB and barely have an adequate LB but elsewhere we're not reliant on any one player in any position. There's a pool of decent options.
Last night was about as weak a team as we have put out in a friendly so it's no biggy. If MON gets a clear picture in his mind of the players and the system that works best for us - surely he must be getting close to it now- then great, the games will have been useful.
Wilson isn't a natural left-back but he does play quiet well there, I feel. Certainly adequate, I'd have thought. Cover there is slack though, indeed. GK is worrying though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I agree with your point about the midfield entirely, with the qualification that maybe pitting one of Green and Whelan would have been more effective and they may have learned more. Whelan isn't a very bad option, necessarily. Although, I have a preference for Hendrick, Meyler and McCarthy and Gibson in the long run, clearly managers rate Whelan- Pulis, Hughes, O'Neill (ish) and Trapattoni all are quite reputable. He does look languid and I can't quite put my finger on certain aspects of his play i.e. his qualities in comparison to his counterparts, but there's enough experience among that quintet to render my opinion completely futile.
I'd be inclined to demote Whelan and Green, keeping Whelan as a squad player and Green only in the squad if others are injured but I'd accept that 442 has done Whelan no favours, nor has his choice of partners at times. He could be a deeper lying midfielder in a 4231 but even still there are others that fill those roles better. Meyler and Hendrick seemed better suited last week and with McCarthy and Gibson to return I just can't see Whelan deserving a starting place anymore. 4th or 5th choice for a central berth for me.
Whelan is a classy player in his own right but to be honest I've never seen him display the energy and urgency necessary for a team of our level. I suspect part of that is down to the fact he often doesn't have to chase the ball because his instinctive positioning is a step above anyone else, which I think is why Trap loved him, but it's a skill that is a lot more effective for a containing team than a team who want to play a bit of football.
But we never wanted to play football under trap and he was crap then too
He looked crap because he wasn't doing the things you wanted him to do. Apart from a couple of notable games, he did a very diligent job containing the opposition and scored a few cracking goals, got a few assists, etc.
What was that? going missing for 80 mins and passing the ball backwards for the other 10.come on chaz Michael Michael he has been woeful
Whelan gave a stray pass and turned away from O'Shea in the first few mins against Serbia, both errors that could cost us a competitive match. I can see what Chuck likes in him though, a neat and tidy passer of the ball who plays with his head up, or tries to. He's got good technique.
But, he completely lacks the ability to influence a game. He doesn't tackle particularly well, he can't carry the ball - an essential skill even in a "holding" midfielder - and has no ability to dictate the tempo. This is what midfield is all about. Just shadowing that deep space in front of the back 4 is something lots of players can do.
He has had a great run and should still be in the squad but others do the nuts and bolts better, and some add something too.
He has been doing things like that a lot lately. He did something similar at the beginning of the Turkey game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
He did a perfunctory job during the '10 campaign but he hasn't pushed on at all. He has completely regressed.
What are these goals and assists that are spoken of? One cracker against Italy and one deflected strike against Georgia and that's it. I do remember him being directly responsible for several goals in Qualifying and indirectly responsible for several others; constantly losing the ball, getting outpaced, getting shrugged off the ball, bad positioning....
It amazes me that someone so weak and so lacking in phsyique, someone so immobile, can be entrusted with one of two CM positions. It's not like he has the lugheads packing Stoke's midfield to support him.
He doesn't offer anything. Squad player and only for his experience.
What's the story regarding Westwood's fitness, will be fit for the pre-season? (providing he gets a club)
But he didn't go missing. He wasn't doing anything much with the ball, but you could see him for the other 80 minutes, moving back and forth along that midfield line about 30 yards from our goal making it difficult for the opposition to get through. That's what he was asked to do and he did it adequately. He's shown for Stoke he has more attributes to his game but they were never required under Trap because he had specific jobs for each player to do and no requirement for anything extra.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Yeah you've pretty much articulated exactly how I've felt about Whelan from day one. He must have some of what CD suggests, I just can't see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with this but I guess I'll have to observe it next game he plays, preferably live. Though, at the same time, there have been games when we have been over-run in there but perhaps that was down to Trap playing a two-man midfield when our opponents were playing 4-3-3? His job could be made easier with a 4-2-3-1 given that our ball retention has improved somewhat with this formation (and Hoolahan's implementation).Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I had to turn off the England game last night cos I couldn't listen to Andy townsend anymore and I like to have commentary on. I've never done that before but seriously he was unbelievably annoying.he will probably only get worse come England's games in the world cup.
anyway up until that point, the 75th minute, England looked just liked ireland against Costa Rica and Honduras were also down to ten men.england really were pretty awful.
Good attitude and all that, but he does have his limitations. I've always said he doesn't strike me as a natural goalkeeper. I'm not quite sure how exactly I can articulate what I sense he's lacking and it sounds very superficial, or almost prejudicial, but Westwood or even Elliot from the little I've seen of him just seem to have that composed or assured goalkeeping demeanour about them. Forde has never truly inspired me with confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I didn't see the first half of the Costa Rica game, but the penalty Forde gave away would have been unforgivable in a competitive game. If you're going to go down for a ball in the box with an attacker fast approaching clearly intending to knock it by you and take advantage of any penalty-winning potential, you sure as hell better make sure you collect that ball. The attacker was going wide anyway, so it's questionable as to whether there was a need to commit. Would he have been able to score from such a tight angle? And by the time he'd have re-composed himself, the defence would have been back to cover. From what I've read and heard of the first half, unfortunately, it seems as though it was the jittery, flappy display of which I've long feared Forde is capable. #ToldUSoPOS :p
Delighted for Shane to have finally made his senior debut after all he's come through both on and off the field. Great to play the full 90 too. He certainly didn't look out of place and coped well. We've not had a great deal of height in our team of late, so his presence is very welcome in that sense. He's a player who could prove very handy for getting a head on set-pieces in the future.Quote:
Papers said Keogh and Duffy coped well. Irish Times report mentioned Keogh a lot. Any comment?
Overall, it's a pity we couldn't make the extra man count in the end. Would have been nice for O'Neill to get a win under his belt, but so long as we're learning.
Penalty and one incident when he came for a corner and only half punched it clear, I actually didn't think Forde did too much wrong. He made a smart save low down to his right from Campbell when he danced around mcclean in the second half that nobody has mentioned, and was well positioned to stop most other shots that came at him. I said at the time of the penalty that he was left horribly exposed by a static central defence for the penalty, and I stand by that. He should have stayed on his feet longer, but it was rush out or give the player the whole of the goal to aim at.
At this stage we're all aware of his limitations, mainly poor distribution, but until Elliot, Westwood or Lawlor get first team football he's our only realistic option between the posts.
There's a portion of Forde's good saves are recovery saves made after a poor kick out in play, like the one against Italy, but he's the best of the goalkeeping bunch.
He flapped at and completely missed another cross in the first half too; Costa Rican guy was behind him and headed wide.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
We know what Forde's like alright. This was one of his dodgier games, but that happens. Maybe Given could come back - did very well on loan at Boro by all accounts, so may still have it - but yeah, Forde is kind of typical of most of the rest of the team really.
funny when Di made that post I thought about his save down the right.it was good if a bit slow but it's exactly what I'd expect any keeper to make really.he didn't over extend it was more middle right than to the corner, what he did well was the powerful punch clear out to the right though a lot of keepers don't have that power, still it's hardly the difference between inclusion ahead of someone else.
He made about 5 very poor mistakes, 1 cost us a goal.he made one decent save.i said earlier against better opposition and even a bounce of the balll/better positioning and we would have conceded another couple at least.
He just looked all at sea and lost.his passing was better but then he would mess up the more passing he did in one passage of play.
I like geysirs suggestion he kicks a poor kick out and saves it.good way of building up the stats...
you think most of the rest of the team is lower end of the Championship standard?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Well I didn't mean it quite that literally. They're ok but not great.
Jaysus the Irish media made a conscious decision to virtually ignore Costa Rica game in print and broadcast media, didn't they?!
How highly is Lawlor rated? We don't have great options in goal right now so would there be a point in putting him in the way McCarthy did with Given years ago?
Wouldn't Shay have seen first-team action for Blackburn, Swindon and Sunderland by the time he made his Ireland debut? Has Lawlor even played first-team football yet? I don't think he has. Not that I'm necessarily saying he shouldn't be given an opportunity just to see how he copes; I've never seen him play so I've no idea what he's like, to be honest.
I'm trying to remember back, and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Shay had played a lot of first team football at the time.
Anyway, was just an idea, I've never even seen Lawlor play
Given had about ten first team games by the time of that Russia match. None were top flight; all were on loan at Sunderland and Swindon.
Have no idea about Lawlor. Doesn't even have a wiki page!
Is Aaron McCarey likely to make a step up sometime soon?
I'm relaxed enough about Forde. It's not exactly the stuff of Nostradamus to predict that our goalkeeper might make a costly mistake sometime. I'm surprised he went through with that tackle v Costa Rica as he had time to pull out even at the last moment.
Obviously it'd be nice to have a consistently good top flight keeper available but Forde has been at least perfectly adequate, probably even good since he came into the team.
If we didnt have the net, would there be any other way of getting that result? I havent seen the game mentioned anywhere eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by Grafter
Just bought a month's subscription for Premium Sport to catch Tuesday's game with Portugal. I have Ros v Mayo on now and the Dubs later. Not bad for 8 quid.
Ros about to go two up. If they hold on expect Paul to come on later a bit tipsy. He'll either be a little more optimistic or he'll be all GAA and anti-footy. Not sure how he'll be if they lose. 3 points up now, 9 mins left.
There are match reports on the online editions of the big 3 proper Irish papers.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Ros only 1 up now. Bottlers. I can't believe how feeble today's GAA players are.