Republic of Ireland V Turkey, Italy, Costa Rica & Portugal - May/June 2014

**Closed Account** · 07/06/2014, 1:58 PM

Originally Posted by Crosby87

Forde needs to drop the e from his name. I dont like it.
PS possibly RIP comedian tracey morgan.

You need to drop the e from Tracey.

**Stuttgart88** · 07/06/2014, 2:01 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

ya I hope you're right svd that cements in oneills head what we should not be doing and who we shouldn't be paying. The only thing we can learn from this as you say is the trap era players are not up to it.

The squad is very threadbare after the first 11. I'm worried about not getting the luck required with regards injuries. I think we are ok if we can pick our strongest 11 otherwise we will struggle.
.

I dunno. If we can field something like the team that started against Italy then we should be ok for most games. Then bear in mind that McCarthy, Gibson and Brady ought to be back, and Andy Reid (who has another year of good quality football left in him, at least) so we can have a stronger team even still and a decent pool of 16/17 first team candidates.

I'm glad to hear Doyle played well as I still think he has something to offer. If he displaces Long in a 4231 I'd be pleased enough.

Forde is what he is, a lower division keeper who usually looks comfortable for Ireland. I wouldn't be too worried.

I really hope O'Neill sees that Meyler and Hendrick should stay ahead of Whelan.

I think Keane will be sprung from the bench more often than not, the obvious loser if we move to 4231 permanently, which is what I expect. Again, that's fine by me.

Papers said Keogh and Duffy coped well. Irish Times report mentioned Keogh a lot. Any comment?

**back of the net** · 07/06/2014, 2:08 PM

Missed the game last night lads - reading the posts - it doesn't seem we were that impressive

So how where we?

Did we take it on from the Italy performance or were we poor?
Positives and negatives?

**paul_oshea** · 07/06/2014, 2:11 PM

He was ok but he and McLean got caught out for Campbells pass. Duffy looked like he wanted to play football, defensively he was ok bar one lapse.

have a look at the game and re-evaluate your assessment on forde, save their very poor finishing it could have been 3 or 4 to them

**paul_oshea** · 07/06/2014, 2:13 PM

It was back to trap tactics botnet. very negative sitting back not pressing it was a case of 2 steps backwards 1 step forward from the italy game. I put that down to the players rather than oneill.

I'll leave the positive to towk.

Wilson was good.doyle was very good but he tired and I think a small bit effected by the head injury.

We looked good when long hoolahan and mcgeady came on.well we looked better and created a few chances.hendrick was a lot more assured than the other two midfielders.

**PatJR** · 07/06/2014, 2:16 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think Keane will be sprung from the bench more often than not, the obvious loser if we move to 4231 permanently, which is what I expect. Again, that's fine by me.

I didn't see the game but disappointed to hear O'Neill didn't play Wes and Keane together. If there is one striker I would want on the pitch with Wes it is Robbie. He is miles ahead in terms of finishing, football intelligence, awareness etc. Throughout his career Keane has excelled with players like Wes. I don't accept for a second that they cannot be in the same team and O'Neill appeared to agree with that. Hopefully they will play against Portugal.

**Crosby87** · 07/06/2014, 2:21 PM

So they wore black?
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27747167

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 07/06/2014, 2:25 PM

Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Was that everybody's favourite player Richard Kyeuck who got muscled off the ball there?

For that goalscoring opportunity just before they won the penalty? Yes.

Keogh and Duffy did OK. I wouldn't read too much into it. There are much harder tests to come.

Some nice praise for Duffy in The Guardian

"Brian Ruiz, the former Fulham striker who spent last season at PSV, was kept extremely quiet by the robust defending of Everton’s Shane Duffy, making his international debut, and struggled to link up with Campbell to any real effect."

**Ol� Ol�** · 07/06/2014, 3:01 PM

I know some of the alternatives have had a long season, but what can be learnt from partnering Green and Whelan at the base of midfield that the management team don't already know? I'd have far preferred to see the bustling energy of Meyler or Hendrick in there starting beside Whelan to give him a bit of impetus to show some dynamism.

Doyle is looking nicely primed to contribute effectively to the Euro 16 campaign. I don't think many would have envisaged that when Trap gave him the bullet. Strong possibility he'll be in the Premiership next season.

I think certain people tend to be a bit harsh on the players/squad we have at our disposal here. If I were to name players who could form the core of the team with provisions made for lack of form and injury, this wouldn't be all the worst:
Forde/Randolph/Westwood
Coleman/Joey O'Brien, Dunne/O'Shea/Delaney/Duffy/Pearce, Wilson/Clark
McGeady/Walters/Quinn, Meyler/McCarthy/Gibson/Hendrick/Whelan, Brady/McClean/Reid/Pilkington
Hoolahan/Keane/Long/Doyle/Stokes

I mean, I saw someone state the other day that there was a dearth of options at the top level. I'm looking that list up and down now and by 31 August, the keepers aside, the majority of those players will be at Premiership clubs (one in the MLS and one in the SPL also).

That's a very subjective list, by the by, I'm not disregarding Richard Keogh or anyone else. I was just trying to whittle down the numbers slightly to show there are options there. It's amazing that some people see Roberts Lewandowski and Snodgrass and suddenly we're weak in comparison to Poland and Scotland. I don't for a minute believe that. Christ, I remember being a primary school kid in 2002 sniggering at the very notion of Gary Breen being linked with Inter Milan. Hardly able to form my sentences, not to mind my own opinions, as I was.

International football seems to me as being a very simple game. Pick a pool of decent players, ensure they're well organised with a coherent plan and an inherent team spirit borne from patriotism and Greece can win the Euros.

**Crosby87** · 07/06/2014, 3:05 PM

What do you chaps think about the triple crown today? Do hope chrome gets busted and bet on a longshot or try to hit a trifecta? Because you cant make any money any other way really. The irish know horse racing.

**Stuttgart88** · 07/06/2014, 3:19 PM

Ole Ole,

I think the key is for the management to learn which players have something and which ones don't from these 4 games. It'd be no harm at all if Whelan and Green get demoted as a result of that showing, with Hendrick, Meyler and Quinn improving their status.

I'm not convinced by Joey O'Brien and one or two others, especially the back up keepers if Westwood doesn't regain match fitness, bit overall I agree. We don't have adequate cover at GK, RB and barely have an adequate LB but elsewhere we're not reliant on any one player in any position. There's a pool of decent options.

Last night was about as weak a team as we have put out in a friendly so it's no biggy. If MON gets a clear picture in his mind of the players and the system that works best for us - surely he must be getting close to it now- then great, the games will have been useful.

**Ol� Ol�** · 07/06/2014, 3:52 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Ole Ole,

I think the key is for the management to learn which players have something and which ones don't from these 4 games. It'd be no harm at all if Whelan and Green get demoted as a result of that showing, with Hendrick, Meyler and Quinn improving their status.

I'm not convinced by Joey O'Brien and one or two others, especially the back up keepers if Westwood doesn't regain match fitness, bit overall I agree. We don't have adequate cover at GK, RB and barely have an adequate LB but elsewhere we're not reliant on any one player in any position. There's a pool of decent options.

Last night was about as weak a team as we have put out in a friendly so it's no biggy. If MON gets a clear picture in his mind of the players and the system that works best for us - surely he must be getting close to it now- then great, the games will have been useful.

Wilson isn't a natural left-back but he does play quiet well there, I feel. Certainly adequate, I'd have thought. Cover there is slack though, indeed. GK is worrying though.

I agree with your point about the midfield entirely, with the qualification that maybe pitting one of Green and Whelan would have been more effective and they may have learned more. Whelan isn't a very bad option, necessarily. Although, I have a preference for Hendrick, Meyler and McCarthy and Gibson in the long run, clearly managers rate Whelan- Pulis, Hughes, O'Neill (ish) and Trapattoni all are quite reputable. He does look languid and I can't quite put my finger on certain aspects of his play i.e. his qualities in comparison to his counterparts, but there's enough experience among that quintet to render my opinion completely futile.

**Stuttgart88** · 07/06/2014, 4:42 PM

I'd be inclined to demote Whelan and Green, keeping Whelan as a squad player and Green only in the squad if others are injured but I'd accept that 442 has done Whelan no favours, nor has his choice of partners at times. He could be a deeper lying midfielder in a 4231 but even still there are others that fill those roles better. Meyler and Hendrick seemed better suited last week and with McCarthy and Gibson to return I just can't see Whelan deserving a starting place anymore. 4th or 5th choice for a central berth for me.

**Charlie Darwin** · 07/06/2014, 4:56 PM

Whelan is a classy player in his own right but to be honest I've never seen him display the energy and urgency necessary for a team of our level. I suspect part of that is down to the fact he often doesn't have to chase the ball because his instinctive positioning is a step above anyone else, which I think is why Trap loved him, but it's a skill that is a lot more effective for a containing team than a team who want to play a bit of football.

**paul_oshea** · 07/06/2014, 5:55 PM

But we never wanted to play football under trap and he was crap then too

**Charlie Darwin** · 07/06/2014, 6:31 PM

He looked crap because he wasn't doing the things you wanted him to do. Apart from a couple of notable games, he did a very diligent job containing the opposition and scored a few cracking goals, got a few assists, etc.

**paul_oshea** · 07/06/2014, 6:36 PM

What was that? going missing for 80 mins and passing the ball backwards for the other 10.come on chaz Michael Michael he has been woeful

**Stuttgart88** · 07/06/2014, 7:12 PM

Whelan gave a stray pass and turned away from O'Shea in the first few mins against Serbia, both errors that could cost us a competitive match. I can see what Chuck likes in him though, a neat and tidy passer of the ball who plays with his head up, or tries to. He's got good technique.

But, he completely lacks the ability to influence a game. He doesn't tackle particularly well, he can't carry the ball - an essential skill even in a "holding" midfielder - and has no ability to dictate the tempo. This is what midfield is all about. Just shadowing that deep space in front of the back 4 is something lots of players can do.

He has had a great run and should still be in the squad but others do the nuts and bolts better, and some add something too.

**TheOneWhoKnocks** · 07/06/2014, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Whelan gave a stray pass and turned away from O'Shea in the first few mins against Serbia, both errors that could cost us a competitive match. I can see what Chuck likes in him though, a neat and tidy passer of the ball who plays with his head up, or tries to. He's got good technique.

But, he completely lacks the ability to influence a game. He doesn't tackle particularly well, he can't carry the ball - an essential skill even in a "holding" midfielder - and has no ability to dictate the tempo. This is what midfield is all about. Just shadowing that deep space in front of the back 4 is something lots of players can do.

He has had a great run and should still be in the squad but others do the nuts and bolts better, and some add something too.

He has been doing things like that a lot lately. He did something similar at the beginning of the Turkey game.

He did a perfunctory job during the '10 campaign but he hasn't pushed on at all. He has completely regressed.

What are these goals and assists that are spoken of? One cracker against Italy and one deflected strike against Georgia and that's it. I do remember him being directly responsible for several goals in Qualifying and indirectly responsible for several others; constantly losing the ball, getting outpaced, getting shrugged off the ball, bad positioning....

It amazes me that someone so weak and so lacking in phsyique, someone so immobile, can be entrusted with one of two CM positions. It's not like he has the lugheads packing Stoke's midfield to support him.

He doesn't offer anything. Squad player and only for his experience.