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Fair enough. Though it's also an excuse to keep out 'undesirables', as if they'd even last 5 minutes on there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Don't have currently, though I did try to gain such access, but they're so hard to contact or unresponsive I didn't persist.
As for evidence;have seen it on there. It's more the tone, or their hypocritical, po-faced attitude re.dissenting views or people engaging in 'banter'.
Still, no surprise there.
The irony of anyone who cannot even bring themselves to utter the words "Northern Ireland" trying to woe supporters of the Northern Ireland team into a "happy clappy" fantasy island team is quite interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Futhermore, the continued insults directed at the perceived mental health of those who have the temerity to hold a different view than you, isn't exactly the stuff of those who champion "Unity" - particularly, as those insults are directed at the very people you wish to be "United" with.
However, carry on...
No - let's try again.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
If you have evidence, based on your "experiences", that the term "taigs" is used regularly on "that MB", in a vitriolic fashion, put up or shut up.
There are several posters with contrary views, who contribute in all sections, as "Patrons", (including very articulate ROI supporting posters, who are regulars here) who post on "that MB".
To be fair, have encountered a number of local residents who are not so enthusaistic about the term.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
And would also question the psyche of certain other local residents. Mainly the ones with a liking for a rather bright colour scheme or whose football team's fans flags generally have an aversion to the colours they play in!
£5 per year seems good value to me and in practice it is very popular (ie most of the previous members became subscribers when it was introduced). There's a similar scheme here, although I think the fee is rather higher?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Translation: 'It's not fair, I keep getting banned'. Stop posting random cartoon Provo nonsense and you won't be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardee Bhoy
To your last point;wouldn't expect any difference!Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
As for evidence, you get me the access and I'll willingly prove it. Guessing you're uncomfortable with that term, though instead of spending so much time trying to re-educate us, you dedicate it to some of your fellow fans. But I'll forgive their ignorance.
Translation;"We're so paranoid & po-faced, in the main, how dare anyone question our existence. And dissenters will not be tolerated!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
What, like Italians and the Dutch, for example?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Get yourself access.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Yes, I would be very uncomfortable with the term - as would the Moderators on "that MB" if it was used in a vitriolic way.
I'm not trying to "re-educate" anyone. I have a respect for difference - something you appear to be, sadly, lacking.
Furthermore, I dedicate a lot of my time away from messageboards doing my (small) bit to fight sectarianism. If you want to call that "re-educating" my "fellow fans", that's fine.
I've had manys a "private" chat with some regular ROI supporters who post here, who hold different views entirely to me. Guess what, I respect them, but they show me similar respect, and don't set out to insult.
They'll know who they are.:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddickcule
Rugby is played to a high level by about 9 countries. One of the World's best teams in soccer would be a far greater status to shout about
in addition, Ireland's Call is an embarrassment
Ah, get out the violins will you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
My issue with that MB is the level of casual intolerance on there, contrary to your views on here. That's why any decent person would not respect such 'difference'.
But acknowledge your attempts to 'change' the outlook of some.
What, exactly, do you mean by "casual intolerance"?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Do you honestly believe that YOUR intolerance for difference, will help you ever acheive your (legitimate) aspirations?:eek:
Do you see the irony of you making up stories about the term "taigs" being regularly used in a derogatory fashion on a message board you state you cannot access, and labellling a whole group of people "paranoid"?:eek:
As it's written. And yes, am intolerant of their intolerance. As anyone should be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
And it's not made up;but it's more about the hypocrisy and what it represents. Though calling 'everyone' paranoid is a little strong, maybe they're just odd. Which I'm not intolerant of, except when it inevitably impacts on others.
You do not see any difference to the "stand up for the Ulstermen" chant?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gather round
Taken in context with all the trappings, the indications are that it is a team followed primarily by the Protestant/Unionist people.
The SUFTU and Ulster til I die, Union jacks, God Save the Queen does not intimidate but will not inspire a Catholic/nationalist to feel that it is their team.
I haven't met a Nationalist from the North who feels bitter rivalry towards the Republic's team, unlike some of ye :)
The fans at Windsor Pk express themselves in a robust positive manner and may that continue.
Do you not think it's a little hypocritical of you to wax lyrical about intolerance, when throughout this thread you have displayed traits of intolerance towards Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland fans, Unionists generally, and the IFA?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Can you conceive that others, with a different viewpoint to you, might consider you "odd"?
Perhaps "Catholic/nationists" are more inspired by SUFTBIG, SUIYHTB, Ireland til I die, Tricolours, Amhrán na bhFiann, A Nation once again, The Fields etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Maybe because certain parts of those august bodies are inherantly intolerant in their make-up and historical background.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Though appreciate not all parts, or that they're not amenable to some degree of 'change'. But the parts of it that aren't, don't leave the rest of us with the most, er, positive impression.
If that makes anyone 'odd', so be it.
Can you appreciate that others may see traits of intolerance in some of the things you hold dear?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
By any stretch of the imagination, broad brushing and demonising swathes of people who hold a different opinion to you is bigotry in it's basest form.
Ah, the irony. People who complain about intolerance, are now :rolleyes: 'intolerant' and accused of 'bigotry'.
As SLF once said, "Take a look at where you're living...."
It's people who practice intolerance, as you have done repeatedly on this thread, who stand accussed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Those who respect difference face no such accussation.
If you say so. If it's 'intolerant' to counter intolerance, wherever it exists, so be it.
How ? Tbh, Amhran na bhFiann is an embarrasment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
I'm a Northern Ireland supporter because I was born in Northern Ireland - not because I'm intolerant.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
PS. Wasn't Jake Burns of SLF a big Northern Ireland fan - appearing on TOTP once upon a time in his Northern Ireland shirt? Maybe I'm mistaken.
Sure is, Peadar!Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
Why not pull up a stool and join us? ;)
Since for obvious reasons (anthem, flags and other emblems etc!), players from a Protestant/Unionist background are much less likely to make the first approach to the FAI, then the FAI must know that if they are to recruit such players to their team, it must be down to them (FAI) to initiate contact.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Which is not to say that the FAI would decline if so approached (I'm sure they wouldn't), but it must surely be salient that (to my knowledge), every* single NI-born player who has represented ROI, or trained with them, or disclosed that he has been approached by the FAI but declined, has been from a Catholic/Nationalist background.
"If it walks like a duck..."
* - The sole exception was Kernaghan, who only approached the FAI after being rejected by the IFA for spurious (imo) reasons. It is safe to say that 20 years on, such an occurrence could/would not happen today.
So the FAI seeks, and is given, a Gentlemens Agreement that the two Associations should not pick each others players.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Then the FAI unilaterally breaks it.
Then we complain about this through the proper channels (FIFA).
But when FIFA determines, under an idiosyncracy in the ROI's citizenship laws not available to any of the other 207 Member Associations, that the FAI should be allowed to get away with it, it is somehow our fault? :eek:
Fair enough, we accept that we "lost" and we will deal with it (in fact, are dealing with it).
But don't expect us to like it, especially when accused of all sorts by those who broke their word to us in the first place.
Fcuk Me! An ROI fan dispensing this advice on an ROI fans' website, in the wake of the Henry handball?Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Oh the irony...:rolleyes:
I hope there is a Setanta Cup next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
There's nothing "derby" about Linfield and Rovers.:rolleyes:
What songs and emblems were "banned"?:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
I couldn't be arsed responding to the rest of your post, since although self-evidently irrelevant, meretricious garbage, it is also opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
However, the above comment about the OurWeeCountry MB is an allegation of fact, which cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.
Re the Beggars tag, some fan use it (inc. myself occasionally), others don't. If anyone wants to know why I do not think that inappropriate per se, then they can pm me, or open a separate thread. (The number "33" might help explain, mind ;))
However, it is quite simply a lie to claim that the term "taig" is even occasionally used, never mind "commonplace".
Another lie. I happen to know that the Mods clamp down very quickly and firmly on any poster you uses any sectarian epithets, whether against one side or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
In fact, I think it is correct to say that they have cause to ban more Loyalist stirrers than Republicans.
Then again, there is an "Uber-Prod" strand of opinion within the football fanbase in NI which considers the OWC website and its members to be "fenian-loving handwringers etc". :rolleyes:
Ironically, I find such dinosaurs have more in common with their counterparts on the Republican* side than they do with anyone else.
P.S. If they are "silent", how do you know they are a "minority"? Or even condemning it?
* - You don't happen to wear a cap, by any chance? And if so, does it fit?
Every single player? Is there some sort of tagging system in place in NI that allows the FAI to quickly catalogue between who's Nationalist, who's Unionist etc etc?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
The FAI picks anybody that's good enough and wants to play for us regardless. You know this.
The game has evolved since this supposed Gentleman's Agreement came into existance. You probably were alive when it happened and remember it like yesterday so can you tell us if this supposed Gentleman's Agreement was binding for eternity? And who exactly shoke hands on this agreement?Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Maybe it was Henry's hand that shoke on the afore mentioned Gentleman's agreement? If so, we obviously couldn't accept the validity of said agreement as we were clearly cheated out of something that's rightfully ours (so to speak). ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Nonsense! It would only be wrong for such people to get involved in the IFA if they allowed their personal opinions to inform the conduct of their official functions.Quote:
Originally Posted by co. down green
Otherwise, in the light of eg the present Catholic abuse scandal, it might be considered "wrong" for any senior member of the Catholic church to be involved in running the FAI or GAA etc.
Therefore, if you have any evidence that Kennedy (or others within the IFA) have discriminated against Cathilics/Nationalists etc, you had better either produce it, or retract.
P.S. I am (genuinely) curious to know exactly how "senior" an Orangeman Kennedy is. Can you enlighten me?
Gather Round has already explained the practical reasons why Unionists should make up a majority of the office bearers of the IFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by co. down green
However, that should surely only be a problem if, like Kennedy and his Orangeism (above), they use that to discriminate against non-Unionists.
Now notwithstanding that historically, at least one Catholic/Nationalist was elected to the position of President of the IFA, or that the team has had several Catholic managers (including the very first) etc, I accept that in the past the IFA has had a Unionist "slant" to it, and I condemn that.
But if you have any evidence that non-Unionists are presently being discriminated against by the IFA, I would be very pleased to hear it.
Otherwise, I might be tempted to assume that you are an ill-informed stirrer, who may be making things up, perhaps to justify your own disinclination to support fellow Down men like David Healy, when they attempt to represent their/your country on the international stage?
Firstly, I'm doubtful that the Setanta Cup will run next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
The "colour scheme" will be absolutely no different to a Linfield v Donegal Celtic fixture (which, frankly, didn't cause much of a stir in recent times).
I wouldn't see the game having anything like the "spark" of a big Linfield v Glentoran league fixture.
I doubt it would be any different to Linfield v Shelbourne or St Pats.
Setanta Cup is dying a death, sadly.
Tbh, ever since the days of Jack Charlton (and before), that has been so obvious as not to need pointing out!Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
However, since no team can pick someone who simply does not want to play for them, how far do you think the FAI should go in order to make themselves "acceptable" (attractive) to every Irish man or woman?
You see, I ask this question because my team regularly gets castigated for being "unacceptable" to Northern Nationalists because of its (partisan) anthem and flags etc.
Therefore, as a fan of the ROI team, do you not agree that in order to be consistent, the FAI should replace their own (partisan) anthem and flag etc, so as to be equally acceptable to Northern Unionists?
Or is it only one of the two Irish international football teams which should be required to "jump through hoops" in order to justify their existence?
If nothing else, if there ever were to be a single Irish team, one might expect the new Association to replace all partisan emblems etc, and replace them with something which is entirely acceptable to all.
Or are concepts like equality and fairness only something which apply when you can't get things entirely your own way? I suppose we might ask Thierry Henry? :rolleyes:
P.S. I am not for one moment suggesting that the FAI should replace the SS or Tricolour, merely pointing out the double standards of some of the critics of the IFA etc.
If you say so.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
See my answer to NB above.
For all my criticisms, he seems to have a greater grasp of the situation.
Perhaps the 're-education' programme should pick up another potential taker out in W.London??
;)
Anyway, thought you were 'staying out of this thread' ??
Not sure that "The Billy Boys" was "banned" - it has certainly been "out of favour" amongst the supporters at our games, and would be frowned upon by the vast majority. A lot of these issues are dealt with by way of fans "self policing" themselves. Our stewards would certainly do little or nothing about it - but that's another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
I would like to think that bans would result for those who would engage in such a ditty at a Northern Ireland game nowadays.
I don't re-call seeing a plethora of either UDA flags or UVF flags at any Northern Ireland game I've attended over 40 years - had there of been, I suspect the rival groupings would have been kicking lumps out of eachother.
Actually, FIFA leaves the four British Associations pretty much to themselves to sort out such "boundary disputes", which they (the four Associations) manage to do quite amicably, by way of freely negotiated and observed agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by janeymac
Of course, such an arrangement can only obtain on the basis that the participants are willing to behave in a respectful and, ahem, "gentlemanly" fashion - something which would probably preclude the FAI ever deciding to renounce their breakaway, and rejoin the IFA...
P.S. If you knew your history, you would be aware that the four British Associations do not "keep a whole FIFA department going"; rather, it was we who kept the entire organisation (FIFA) going, when it faced bankruptcy following WWII (or "The Emergency", as you might better know it)
EG,Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Do you vaguely remember some group of well intended do gooders go on about something like "Building An Ireland Of Equals"?
If I could remember who it was, I'd pop them an email seeking their thoughts on some of the questions you pose.
Well, if you say differently, produce the evidence to support your spurious allegation.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I've been going to Windsor since 1988. You would need to go out of your way to be offended now by anything these days and I see the main complaints now centre over GSTQ and Stand Up for the Ulstermen. Although some people will always find a reason to be offended.Quote:
Originally Posted by BYCTWD
Northern Ireland have a team that anyone of any race or religion could go and support. It is simply a group of noisy passionate football fans.
There were certainly problems in the past although they were often blown out of proportion particularly in 1993 hoqwever there were certainly comments and songs that wouldn't be heard and would be totally unacceptable today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Dude. Seriously??? What has the FAI got to do with Nationalists from Northern Ireland not feeling adequately represented within the IFA (assuming that is the case)? I haven't read every word of every post so I could be quoting you out of context.
And about the same number of countries (9) dominate world football. Brazil, Italy, Germany = New Zealand, S. Africa & Australia. USA is ranked 14 at the moment! Quality not quantity. Football, like rugby has no Asian presence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Den Perry
I do agree though that Ireland's Call is an embarrassment. The sentiment is right, but the execution is s**te.