Have you noticed how it always seems to be the team which lost the
shooot-out whose mananger believes practising penalties is pointless?
I have.
Printable View
Have you noticed how it always seems to be the team which lost the
shooot-out whose mananger believes practising penalties is pointless?
I have.
What are you talking about? i said there was no harm in practising. A penalty kick is a lot more pressurised than taking a corner, free etc. Thought you'd have the cop on to understand my point. Obviously over estimated ya :oQuote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
I dont remeber fergie sayin that.or england bosses now that i think of itQuote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/...story53269.aspQuote:
Originally Posted by jimbob117
Maybe this will refresh your memory!!
"The Arsenal goalkeeper revealed that the players were even imitating the walk from the centre circle to the penalty spot to put them in the best frame of mind possible for such a scenario arising.
It is in sharp contrast to the attitude displayed towards spot-kicks by then England coach Glenn Hoddle during the 1998 World Cup when his side lost on penalties to Argentina in the second round.
Hoddle has since claimed that ‘‘practising (penalties) until kingdom come isn’t necessarily the answer. In fact, it might just make matters worse‘‘.
Penalties will decide deadlocked matches after extra-time from the second round onwards and England have a sorry record in shoot-outs.
They lost the semi-finals of the 1990 World Cup and the 1996 European Championships on penalties plus that meeting with the Argentinians in St Etienne during France 98."
Didnt realise Hoddle didnt practise them, but Keegan and as far as i remember, Robson did, as does sven.
http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/pr...=48885&lang=en
"However, although the game could be close, Voeller claims the Germans have not been practising penalties.
In the past Germany's diligence in practising from the spot has paid off handsomely, such as during Italia `90 and Euro `96, but Voeller claims he is focused on winning during playing time."
Practising penalties a load of old 'garbage' - McCarthy
Monday June 17th 2002
http://www.unison.ie/features/worldc...=236&si=775319
"THE discipline of practising penalties is "garbage" according to Irish manager Mick McCarthy, who watched his side crash out of the World Cup finals after missing FOUR spot-kicks.
"Practising penalties is garbage," he said in the aftermath of a dramatic 3-2 spot-kick defeat after the fighting Irish held Spain 1-1 in a pulsating second round tie in Suwon.
"We practised taking penalties two nights before, but it's about standing up and taking one if you fancy it on the night.""
OK he said they did some practise, but with his attitude to it it probably
was a waste of time, maybe if the kit had turned up on time they might have been able to do some thorough practise!!
http://www.footballconference.co.uk/news/481.html
"We've been practising penalties for two weeks," he added. "That was our reward
http://www.soccernet.com/euro2000/co...eatnorman.html
"This notion that there is no way of preparing to take a penalty was the most doolally (no minor achievement) ever expressed by Keegan's predecessor, whose players did not practise from 12 yards because 'you can't replicate the pressure'. But nothing increases fear and therefore pressure like unfamiliarity, and with a couple of hours acclimatising himself to the experience behind him, who is to say that David Batty wouldn't have tucked his France 98 kick into the corner?
"
http://forums.soccerfansnetwork.com/...hybrid&t=10602
Ireland go out on penalties. Was Roy Keane right all along? (Allsport)
No, these are lessons of arrogance, ignorance, sheer bloody mindedness and, above all, how to handle yourself with dignity in defeat.
Let's start with the Irish.
When deposed skipper Roy Keane told Mick McCarthy the side should practice penalties ahead of a possible shoot-out later in the competition, the Ireland boss said there was 'no need' at that stage as he had every confidence his players 'would hit the target'.
Granted, McCarthy's men finally got around to practising penalties a few days before their second round clash with Spain.
However, by missing four of the seven spot-kicks in the defeat, it was quite clear they should have started practising earlier.
Even under such intense pressure, there is no excuse for some of the most feeble spot-kicks I've ever seen!
So, for all his critics, Keane's own verdict has ultimately proved spot-on as his words have come back to haunt the Irish"
http://www.liverpool-mad.co.uk/news/...TMNW&id=222739
Liverpool's players will not be practising penalties as part of their preperations for Wednesday's European Cup final.
"If the game with AC Milan is all square after extra-time it will be decided on penalties but Rafa Benitez believes that practising for a penalty shoot-out is a pointless exercise.
"I don't believe in practising penalties," he said. "In my opinion, the most important factor is how you feel on the day, not if you look good taking a penalty in training.
"You can look the best in practise, but then when you're in front of all the people inside the stadium, you may get afraid.
"I don't go into a game like this thinking it's going to go to penalties. I only think about winning the match. Maybe if we get to extra time, then I'll consider who takes penalties." "
Wow!! What information is he going to base his decision on? Names out of a hat?
Might be a bit of kidology.
I guess it's a bit lilke practising getting yourself sacked, it's never the same as the real thing :D
Oh and if you want to recreate the pressure a £10,000 fine for every one
missed works wonders. :D :D
I suppose you'd know more than benitez. I mean it looks like you spent the last 3 hours scouring the web for teams who lost penalty shoot outs who had said prevoiusly they werent worth practicing. Im sure u could do the same and empahisise teams that did practice who lost against teams that didnt but quite frankly, i amnt arsed. My opinion remains the same, worth a practise but those who can handle the pressure will decide who scores, end of storyQuote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
I just put up the first few links which came from "practising penalties" thats
all, it didnt seem to show many/any where a team didn't practise penalties
and won although I am sure that does happen.
And how do you know who can handle the pressure if you don't find out in practise? Footballers abilites don't necessarilly match their confidence.
You are entitled to you opinion of course, but I like back mine up with some evidence.
my evidence is my own experience!!!
Evidently!
The only Irish player I can remember missing a peno, apart from Harte in Korea, was, yes you've guessed it, Roy Keane against Romania.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Penalties are clearly worth practising. There's no harm whatsoever in practising how to place it from the spot, how to keep it down, place it high, what to see in the goalkeeper, basics like that.
I don't see how there's any science to it, though. A player can practice for a month on how to place it perfectly in the bottom right corner. He's confident, he's played a great game, and he's not going to bottle it now. He walks up in the right frame of mind, looks at the goalkeeper, places the ball on the spot and does everything right. Then the keeper saves it because he guesses right.
Remember Mendieta's penalty against us? That was a shocking penalty, which was mis-hit. Given was inches from saving it. If he he dived a split second later, would he have saved it? Pure luck got Mendieta's penalty, not practice.
Remember Cascarino's penalty against Romania? If he'd been practising penalties, it didn't show as he scuffed the turf when he hit it and it went in under Lung's body. A bit of luck and nerve got him through.
Practice away, no harm in it, a lot of benefits to it, but it's not an absolute science, surely.
I think I remember that as I was there :( As you well know I was talking about other than in peno shoot outs.
I agree that it is nonsense not to practice penos. Then why bother practicising free kicks or anything either since they are all different in the hot house pressure of a game ?
I don't think anyone suggested not practising penalties. Jimbob suggested that nerve had as much to do with it as practice and that practising free-kicks is very, very different from practising penalties in terms of the end result.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
If you don't practice free-kicks at all, you've got no structure at all during a deadball situation. It's not guaranteed that you're going to score or miss but it's guaranteed that your players will be where they were on the training ground. Penalties are obviously different in this regard. You can practice your kick all night but a million things can go wrong with a direct consequence - you miss. Ian Harte - acknowledge by all here, even those who think he's brutal (such as myself), to be top class at a deadball - missed his penalty miserably against Spain. His confidence was shot, he was playing terribly, he was up against Casillas. I'm sure he practices all the time on dead ball situations. What happened him there, you know?
Thats just it isnt it, why go golfers and snooker players spend hour afterQuote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
hour practicing.
As for a 'top-player' scuffing his shot, well I guess he was too good to practice.
Yes everyone makes mistakes but practice helps minimise them.
david seaman has a system for penalty shoot outs he used to go the same way three times. Schmeichel had a similar system. my own system is different. i watch the kickers eyes as he places the ball, then i wait and wait on the line and once he foot is within a millimetre of the ball i go. if the ball is a good height i have it.its all down to good reaction times and remembering the presure is on the kicker. i myself have a pretty good record from the spot kicks didnt concede for five years then it was broken and had a bad patch. very hard maybe if given just waited or developed a system he'd stop a penalty. i notice he leans to much on one leg when he stands for a penalty and hence he goes the wrong way. best penalty stopper in premiership at moment is jens lehman.
Who's your money on if Liverpool - AC Milan goes to penalties?
Unpractised Liverpool have alreasy almost had one saved!!
Great comeback by LIverpool, I stopped watching at half-time as I though
game over (had radio on though).
Hope Liverpol go on to win, Finnan off bye the way and Liverpool grab 3!! :eek:
dudek is better than the milan keeper at penaltiesQuote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Of course there is probably one undisputable fact about practising
penalties and that is you might find out you are absolutely useless at
them and hence realise that playing for a draw is pointless.
Not much point finding out you can't take penalties when your in front of
a 50.000 crowd :D
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:Q...&hl=en&start=1
Milan beat Juventus by penalties in the Champions League final two years ago after a very even game.
"I think the game against Liverpool will be more or less in the same line as that against Juve," admitted Ancelotti.
"It wouldn't surprise me if we had to go to the penalty shoot-out.
"And for this there is little you can do in terms of preparation even though we do practise penalties during training.
"But in a game, and especially in a final, it all has to be down to psychology and the conditions you face, so it's by no means easy."
--------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder what will happen if it goes to a shoot out?
Can you imagine Benitez saying after extra time
"Right lads how many of you have ever taken a penalty before?" :rolleyes:
Of course Liverpool will probably win on penalties anyway and me look stupid :D in which case I would be delighted!
LOL Liverpool 2 milan 0 :o
Liverpool win European cup on unpractised penalties :o
Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
So, will ya shut up about practising them now, good man :)
I think Given could take a lot from Dudek's efforts tonight, it was legendary stuff and it definitely had an effect on the Milan players facing him
Those Milan players had lost their bottle anyway. There was no conviction in the penalties they missed, it was as if they'd given up and accepted that Liverpool were the jammiest team in the universe. Fair play to the Pool.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I think you are right Given should learn to cheat just like Dudek did and hope that the ref is not doing his job.
But was Dudek cheating? Time for someone to dig up the rulebook here.
On another note, both penalty shootout winners in the last week (Arsenal and Liverpool) won their shootouts because they were the more positive side. United were ****ed at the weekend to be in that situation, as they had missed a few sitters. Same goes for Milan yesterday. Arsenal and Liverpool were delighted for the opportunity to tuck 5 away, and they duly obliged.
Since any professional worth his 10,000+ a week should be physically capable of sticking the ball in whatever corner he wants from 12 yards, it all comes down to psychology.
So I'd agree with manager's like Benitez and McCarthy when they say "I'll give the penos to whoever sticks his hand up". But I disagree that practicing penos is wasting time. Every squad player should know exactly where he's going to put it before the match starts. Then, the 5 most confident can sign up for the penos.
The Keepr must stay on his line during the penalty shoot out before the ball is kicked by the attacking player. Dudek cleary encroached at leat 2 times.
Yes, Dudek came off his line to save the 1st one. Not sure about the second. This is illegal.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
The AC Milan players were beaten before they took them. They looked so down hearted. Maybe they should play practice matches, deliberately lose a 3 goal lead and then take penos :D
I'd say peno shoot outs are 40% technique, 40% psycological and 10% practice and 10% luck.
Happens all the time, always has done always will. If a keeper doesn't try to advance a few yards off his line more fool him. Are you absolutley sure that Dida stayed routed to his line until every Liverpool penalty taker had struck the ball. I thought the way Dudek made a point of walking up to each Milan player and handing him the ball was class. Not sure if it made any difference but who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
It was more blatant for Pirlo's one I woudl have thought, he was nearly at his six yard one for that by the time he saved it. What was the ref doing , he only has one simple job to do and he should have had re takes on at least 2 penalties for Milan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotsy
I noticed that, and it is frustrating for a player for the keeper to be in your face, again the ref should be giving the ball to the player rather than the keeper. I did not notice Dida coming off his line. I could not say for a fact that he didnt, but the one he saved from Riise he dove across his goal rather than encroaching. I think that Given should go the route of Dudek but it does not make it right that cheating can win you the European Cup.
To be honest Neil I don't really see it as cheating. I will admit it's against the rules of the game but so is any form of fouling an opposition player and how many times does that happen in a match and the perpetrators aren't labelled cheats. You take your punishment and get on with the game. It's up to the ref to make the call.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
What I would regard as cheating is players feigning injury and diving with the sole purpose of getting a free or worse conning the ref into sending off a player.
Anytime you purposely break the rules it is cheating. What you haev said are forms of cheating but you cant include some and disregard others to suit your views.
Gattuso fouled Gerrard to concede a penalty last night. I don't accept that most people would call him a cheat. He broke the rules and his team was punished. If Dudek broke the rules last night it was up to the ref to punish him and I wouldn't have had a problem if he had ordered a retake or booked him.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
I would maintain that in football labelling someone a cheat is reserved for someone who tries to con the ref. Dudek didn't try to con the ref IMO, he did what most keepers do when facing a penalty and didn't try to disguise the fact.