The myth of we're just "happy to be there"

Quote:

---

Charlton had been a success as a league manager in the UK........
Mick McCarthy seems to know how to manage as well - Sunderland 2nd in the Championship.........John Giles was also our manager once - he had also done well as a manager in the UK. Jollyroger says the players had no idea of formations - Jack's team was one of the most regimented teams there ever has been. Every player knew the formation and knew their job in it.

---

Charlton hadnt a clue about any of the players ability, everyone knew where to play and what to do because it was brutally simply.

Kick ball long into peno area, Head ball into net. Always kick ball forward !! He got results with his long ball but it was never proper football.

Mc Carthy and his team are grafters. He belongs somewhere between the priemer divison fighting relegation and top of the championship fighting for it. He does very well but he is not a winner.

Johnny Giles will be the first to tell you that he isnt cut out for management.

A good player doesnt make a good manager ! Kerr did a magnificant job at underage at European level. HE HAS WON THINGS. Also, he doesnt try to put Duff up front alongside Keane, when its clearly wrong. He brings players like Kavanagh in (who Mc Carthy or Charlton would never) to do a job for us. He moves Kilbane into the center and balances the whole of midfield out for us.

Mc Carthy could never get it right :rolleyes:

Did Barca not win the last match 2-1 and are they not top of the league in Spain. Did Ronaldinhio not win a World Cup in 2002. I do not think he is a clown but his a very effective footballer who also entertains in the same mould as Zidane and Maradona but has not reached the levels that the two of them reached.


I agree with a lot of your post otherwise. I would rather Barcelona any day of the week. I think the ideal is to win with flair which is what they do. Hope they do it tonight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

FFS. All our results to date have been through an FA that is probably one of the most corrupt and badly managed in the world.

---

You're having a laugh if you think our association is one of the most corrupt and badly managed in the world. Maybe one of the worst in western europe admittedly....

On the training, the nation as a whole has to take responsibility - only follow foreign teams, send our youngsters abroad from a young age, don't support domestic football to allow the system to develop here with academy's etc....

Personally don't think we've done any better than alright in the major tournaments. Certainly nothing to celebrate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wws

groundless. we didnt qualify cause one of those **** teams beat us home and away - we had no right to be there - and as such we're no better than any of them that it - in fact it makes us worse

Ireland - along with Norway - one of the WORST teams in Italia 90 football wise. Fact!
USA - one decent game v Italy and that was the height of it
Korea/Japan - knocked out by the world cups perrenial **** "big" country = spain


awe inspiring record

---

Norway didnt qualify in 1990.

I think he probably mean Norway in USA '94.

"Charlton hadn't a clue about the players' abilities "- 6th in the World ratings from around 90th in eight years. I suspect he must have known something.

As to our style of play - I couldn't care less how we play so long as we're successful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Like I said, soccer has never taken off until 1990. We just had a few lads making up the numbers and flying the flag. They werent professionals, they were just there for the beer and craic.

---

just out of interest how old are you??

i grew up in the eighties made into football, pretty much like all kids around us, following the hype of division one in england. irish international crowds were down because the team was doing poorly at the time 86 qualifiers, but get a dvd of irish great matches etc., see the crowds there when we beat france in lansdowne, russia in dalymount etc. - football wasn't just introduced to ireland in 1990, its always been here, and its always been big. 1988 & 1990 just added more hype to it. the likes of brady stapleton, moran, giles, daly, givens etc., they were not just 'there for the beer and craic'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ColinR

just out of interest how old are you??

i grew up in the eighties made into football, pretty much like all kids around us, following the hype of division one in england. irish international crowds were down because the team was doing poorly at the time 86 qualifiers, but get a dvd of irish great matches etc., see the crowds there when we beat france in lansdowne, russia in dalymount etc. - football wasn't just introduced to ireland in 1990, its always been here, and its always been big. 1988 & 1990 just added more hype to it. the likes of brady stapleton, moran, giles, daly, givens etc., they were not just 'there for the beer and craic'

---

Seconded.

Quote:

---

Did Barca not win the last match 2-1 and are they not top of the league in Spain. .........I would rather Barcelona any day of the week. I think the ideal is to win with flair which is what they do. Hope they do it tonight.

---

Chelsea will win , if not, Ill eat my hat and you can rub it in tomorrow.

Im 100% certain that Chelsea will win.

Soccer was sold EN MASS to the Irish public at Italy '90, but we have always done very well. We were not very consistent and poor away from home but of course Im not writing off the achievements of the 80's and know about all the great games and '88.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stojkovic

Norway didnt qualify in 1990.

---

Good God ure right! I miss Dolan related banter! His audios on the ccfc.ie are pure David Brent! This 'why cant ireland beat the swiss' vibe is lame in comparison.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

But after you get knocked out, what's the point in brooding eternally about being knocked out? You said that the players and management celebrated losing to Spain, yet they were clearly all in tears and were gutted. Are you just going to let this blatant contradiction go?

---

No, not after the match directly but later like in the cringeworthy Joe Duffy episode they were acting like heroes for loseing ffs. McAteers comments in his recent interview summed the mentality up.

Quote:

---

You also say the Germans' mentality is better than ours, again on the basis that we can appreciate what we've done after the event. Nothing matters after the event - it's our mentality during the event that counts, and I think we've shown time and time again that ours is up there with the best.

---

If our mentality was up there with the best we'd have more than three (one on penaltys) in the world cup, it's not just to do with working hard and battling it's to do with belief and we've lacked it in the past.

Quote:

---

Premiership managers don't seem to agree with our assessments so I'm not sure they'll get on the benches of the top foreign international teams.

---

You're making thigns up here, Finnan 'in and out' of the Liverpool side, eh? And what has Carr recently coming back from an injury got to do with his standing as an international footballer? :confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slash/ED

No, not after the match directly but later like in the cringeworthy Joe Duffy episode they were acting like heroes for losing.

---

But this is my point exactly. Who cares what they're saying afterwards? Are they supposed to brood over this for years and years? I don't see any harm in looking back happily at the World Cup after the event - it's part of the Irish way of life that we always have a positive outlook - as I said earlier, far better than the Brits always beating themselves up and gettin down in the dumps because they didn't win 5-0 in the final.

Immediately after the match, the players were in tears - this speaks more for their attitude than any silly radio call-in show can.

Quote:

---

jolly
Chelsea will win , if not, Ill eat my hat and you can rub it in tomorrow.

Im 100% certain that Chelsea will win.

---

I knew it:). Barca play great football but Chelski are a team that grinds out wins.

Quote:

---

a huge insult to the likes of Carey, Giles, Whelan, Brady, Lawrenson etc. etc

---

All legends, but what about the likes of Phil Baab ? Mc Ateer (apart from holland), and the rest of those muppets doin the starset and hutch rountine in Dublin. hardly pro's

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

I knew it:). Barca play great football but Chelski are a team that grinds out wins.

---

In fairness Chelsea were very, very lucky. Barca were the better team.

I agree that Barca are the better team,they play better football but winning at sport and the spectacle are different. Very close in the end. no hat for me tomorrow: D

Barca really showed up how rigid inflexible (and stupid: P) 4-4-2 is. I hope things moves on with Ireland and kerr tries to change it permantly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davros

We won't win the World Cup next year(& probably never will)

---

You can tell so much about someone by the fact that they don't like Roy Keane, they usually haven't a clue about much else either.

We can win the World Cup next year. We have the players, we have the team spirit, we have a tactically adept manager. If England, Germany, France or Italy had what we have, they would EXPECT to win the World Cup. We should be thinking along the same lines.

It doen't mean that we will win it, it just increases our chances greatly.

I'd be slightly surprised if we qualified tbh

Kerr's teams a la mccarthy cant beat the swiss ffs

also Duff and Morrisson are the only two truly effective players we can count on

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wws

I'd be slightly surprised if we qualified tbh

Kerr's teams a la mccarthy cant beat the swiss ffs

---

Kerr like, McCarthy and Charlton can't beat a half decent team away from home competitively. Didn't stop us qualifying on 3 previous occasions. :)

I think people should really get over this thing. Beating a top team away from hone in international football is a rare experience. As has been said here lots of times, We have only ever done it against the Scottish in living memory. I think Israle will count if we can beat them. Drawing away and beating them at home is the basis of a good qualifying campaign. I expect to win away but when we dont or if we draw you got to be realistic and say a point is a point.

Even Roy Keane who is put up there as the person who seems to be the spokesperson or represents those with high expectations of Irish football teams would say that sometimes a draw away from home you got to be content wit that. I think you should prepare to win but afterward if you have got a draw away from home you can take comfort that it is a decent result.

I'm only reacting to ridiculous comments like "we would have won the euros" blah blah blah - This Ireland squad as done nothing of consequence and are in for a hell of a fight to qualify - thats reality - and anyone using FIFA rankings to back up an argument hasnt a fckn clue. How can ppl argue we should have a winning mentality in major tournaments when in the next breath admit we cant win outside of dublin?????

Well I think u can have a winning mentality and also admit to the past that you haev not one much outside dubiln in qualifying against major teams. You will never win away from home unless u have the winning mentality. I would argue that you need the mentality first and then you go and get the 3 points second. However if you think that you should get the 3 points away from home first and then get the winning mentality that is your opinion. The best way of winning a match is preparing well, believing in yourself, Organise the team well on the pitch. Have a good team spirity. Have quality throughout the park and then do it on the pitch. As part of that you need believe that you will win it. If every team waited until they won, until they believed they could win, they woudl nto get very far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

I knew it:). Barca play great football but Chelski are a team that grinds out wins.



All legends, but what about the likes of Phil Baab ? Mc Ateer (apart from holland), and the rest of those muppets doin the starset and hutch rountine in Dublin. hardly pro's

---

rubbish and nitpicking. besides they were onscene in the 90's. You said that thats when football took off in ireland.

contradicting yourself there.

get a grip lad.

Some of this stuff is so stupid. Were crap because we cant win away matches. To qualify all you have to do is win all of your home games and draw all of your away games. That in itself is tough for any team. You dont get any special prize for winning all the games.

Against weaker opposition like Faroes, Cypruss and hopefully Israel we can pick up a win.

We have a very good squad at the moment, very good manager, team spirit, all of it. The only thing we dont have is the right attitude, we think were supposed to loose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Donal81

Good point but in USA 94, I have a feeling that plenty there thought that they could go home having beaten Italy in the first game. They might compete to the best of their ability but its the mentality which some might question.

---

I know what your saying here but i also think the weather had to do with our performance there. Sure we were not even allowed water unless you ran to the touchline and get a water bag or what ever it was. And if i remember correctly FIFA tried to stop this. :eek:

[
We have a very good squad at the moment, very good manager, team spirit, all of it. The only thing we dont have is the right attitude, we think we're supposed to loose (sic).[/QUOTE]

I think you're the only one that thinks we're going to lose. The only time I saw us go away from home half expecting to lose was, dare I say it, under Big Mc away to Croatia and we got our just desserts, albeit in the final minute. Under Charlton, except near the end, we were almost impossible to beat away from home. That's what got us through. The team feared no one and to have to listen to this bullshti talk about the needing the right attitude and then we'll succeed - we have had the right attitude as far as I'm concerned but of course Roy Keane has spoken otherwise, so shall it be. All kneel and obey.

Quote:

---

rubbish and nitpicking

---

?? We were the beer brigade in '94. It was all about beer after matches for some of the players. It wasnt about what happened on the pitch and winning.

Baab and McAteer were just jumping on a bandwagon, they couldnt play for England cos they werent good enough. Plus they were never really pro's or pushed themselves hard enough. Something McAteer admitted himself.

Soccer was sold to the general population back in the 90's but it wasnt due to any of those mugs IMO. Im saying that we had some legends in our time playing for ireland but there was a lot of hangers on & loosers in the side too.

Now, All the Ireland 11 are pro's and winners, I expect we'll do a lot better in this WCQ and WC :) I think we will top our group and should do very well in Germany.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Baab and McAteer were just jumping on a bandwagon, they couldnt play for England cos they werent good enough.

---

Babb always wanted to play for us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

Baab and McAteer were just jumping on a bandwagon, they couldnt play for England cos they werent good enough.

---

Simply not true in babbs case, he wanted to wear green from an early age

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Babb always wanted to play for us.

---

babb got a lot of stick at lansdowne expecially that game with the overhead kick.. then there was the other game when he threw his jersey into the east terrace at the end.

I never doubted babbs effort. A little less than pro off the fieild maybe but I wouldn't call him hanger on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

... The team of USA 94 was at the end of its days with no striker of international class.

---

What about ....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davros

:rolleyes:From the fount of all wisdom.....regardless of what anyone thinks of RMK.....He's past it(last night was ample proof v.AC).....if he cant do it for ManUre.....like he'll do it for Ireland. :confused:

---

Keane has had a great season, didn't you see his performances against Arsenal and Liverpool, where Vieira and Gerrard were destroyed. You really don't know what you are talking about if you think he's past it.

Man U's problem against AC was the set up, as well as the fact than Milan are a better team (top of Serie A).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

What about ....

---

Aldo was a great player in his day ...however his day was some considerable time previous to 1994. Ironic I know that he scored probably his most important goal in an Ireland shirt against Mexico -but he wasn't even our first choice striker -despite the slim pickings available to Jack at the time.
Aldo was putting in great performances regularly for a Tranmere Rovers side that were playing above themselves but he was very much in the autumn years of his career.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carnstien

You can tell so much about someone by the fact that they don't like Roy Keane, they usually haven't a clue about much else either.

We can win the World Cup next year. We have the players, we have the team spirit, we have a tactically adept manager. If England, Germany, France or Italy had what we have, they would EXPECT to win the World Cup. We should be thinking along the same lines.

It doen't mean that we will win it, it just increases our chances greatly.

---

I don't like Roy Keane because he let us down when we needed him in Korea/Japan and because he picks and chooses the games he plays for us and always has done and wouldn't even travel to Iran for the World Cup play off. He is truly a great man and despite his great will to win and positive thinking, the richest club in the world of which he is captain, has only won the CHampions League once. "We will win. We will win. Opps, there's a goal for AC Milan..We will win. We will win. Opps, there's another one. We will win. We will win. Opps, there's the final whistle. We're out".

I'm sure England, Germany, Italy would love to have O'Brien, Kilbane, Morrisson etc playing for them - get a grip. We have three world class players in Given, Keane (Saipan) and Duff. The rest are ordinary enough premiership players who play out of their skinn when they put on the green jersey whether under Kerr, McCarthy or Charlton. We have always kicked above out weight at international level. Please God it will continue. Repeat after me 50 times: "We will win, we will win..."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Roy Keane

despite his great will to win and positive thinking, the richest club in the world of which he is captain, has only won the CHampions League once.

---

The richest club in the world is Chelsea.

Technically, he only won the CL once. In reality Bayern battered them in the '99 final, but they lost their bottle in injury time. :mad:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by carnstien

We can win the World Cup next year. We have the players, we have the team spirit, we have a tactically adept manager. If England, Germany, France or Italy had what we have, they would EXPECT to win the World Cup. We should be thinking along the same lines.

It doesn't mean that we will win it, it just increases our chances greatly.

---

Well, that's a lot different to what we were hearing 12 months ago. People were saying that we would be very lucky to make the play-off. :( Amazing what a draw in France can do for expectations. :)

Of course, we can beat bigger countries. In the past, Holland came to Dublin and lost, Spain came to Dublin and lost, Italy thought they would beat us in USA '94 and lost, Germany thought they would beat us in 1994 and lost. In fact, they haven't beaten us for ages.

Portugal came to Dublin in '95 and lost. Croatia came to Dublin off the back of a World Cup and lost. England, and Brazil haven't beaten us for 20 years. We have qualified from our World Cup Finals groups every time. We have only lost 3 competitive games in Dublin in 20 years.

Our record is good. We can hold our own against the so-called bigger teams, even with all their greater resources. If we could win more games against weaker teams, then we would be doing a lot better than we currently are.

If we take advantage of our favourable fixture list for the rest of the WC qualifiers, we should win our group. Even if winning the tournament in Germany is unlikely, we should aim to go as far as possible. Everyone would be happy with that.

carnstein - Are you a Man Utd supporter? Every post I look at from you I just think of you as a Man U supporter.

There was two threads on boards.ie this week. One was Milan v Man Utd, the other was Leverkusen v Liverpool. It was shocking the difference in the posts in each thread. Man U had just been beaten by Milan on their home patch yet 90% of the fans were predicting them to qualify. Liverpool won 3-1 in their home match, Leverkusen were without their only 3 centre halfs yet the Liverpool fans were expecting the worst.

I am with the Liverpool fans on this. Why should we be going into the World cup with expectations on winning it? What do we gain out of it? If we fail to get there were just going to be disappointed. If we set our expectations that little but lower we won't be as disappointed if we fail to get to the final and we will be even happier if we do. Think about it. We don't gain anything from having such high expectations and we don't have any reason to have expectations that high. Who's happier to get to an FA cup final, a Scúnthorpe fan or a Man U fan? There is only one answer to that question. Who's more disappointed to go out in the quarters, a Man U fan or a Scúnthorpe fan? Again, there's only one answer to that question.

It honestly is this very reason that I can't see past you being a Man U fan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

carnstein - Are you a Man Utd supporter? Every post I look at from you I just think of you as a Man U supporter.

There was two threads on boards.ie this week. One was Milan v Man Utd, the other was Leverkusen v Liverpool. It was shocking the difference in the posts in each thread. Man U had just been beaten by Milan on their home patch yet 90% of the fans were predicting them to qualify. Liverpool won 3-1 in their home match, Leverkusen were without their only 3 centre halfs yet the Liverpool fans were expecting the worst.

I am with the Liverpool fans on this. Why should we be going into the World cup with expectations on winning it? What do we gain out of it? If we fail to get there were just going to be disappointed. If we set our expectations that little but lower we won't be as disappointed if we fail to get to the final and we will be even happier if we do. Think about it. We don't gain anything from having such high expectations and we don't have any reason to have expectations that high. Who's happier to get to an FA cup final, a Scúnthorpe fan or a Man U fan? There is only one answer to that question. Who's more disappointed to go out in the quarters, a Man U fan or a Scúnthorpe fan? Again, there's only one answer to that question.

It honestly is this very reason that I can't see past you being a Man U fan.

---

Yeah but there's a difference between players and fans in that regard, I see where your coming from from a fans POV but players should never 'aim low'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OwlsFan

We have three world class players in Given, Keane (Saipan) and Duff. The rest are ordinary enough premiership players who play out of their skinn when they put on the green jersey whether under Kerr, McCarthy or Charlton. We have always kicked above out weight at international level. Please God it will continue. Repeat after me 50 times: "We will win, we will win..."

---

I would doubt that we have three world class players, a term used for a player that could get on a hypotheical world eleven. Keane is fading he was definetly not world class last Wednesday. Given and Duff just maybe...

My definition of world class is a player who would get into most sides around the world and Given, Keane (Saipan) and Duffer fit the bill here. Otherwise we're a team of journeymen whom some believe will win the World Cup by saying "We're going to win the World CUp".

The World Cup is a tough nut to crack. Since 1954 Brazil have won it 5 times, West Germany and Argentina twice, England, Italy and France one a piece. No minnows here. Not even Holland or Spain have won it.

Our aim (as it has always been) is (a) qualify for the next round (which we've always done to our immense credit), and (b) (in the old cliche) - take each game as it comes in the next rounds and try and progress as far as we can.

We can expect no more but if we do get to a semi-final or even a final, fantastic. But going saying "we'll win it" will leave those with that theory with egg on their face and blaming lack of ambition of the others for our "failure" when the truth is we've always "done wor best" as Big Jack would say.