I was expecting to see a 6ft leggy blond when I clicked that link.
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I was expecting to see a 6ft leggy blond when I clicked that link.
Great article Stutts. This piece in particular sums it all up for me. If the FAI truly has a vision, then they need to empower Dokter to execute it. Good luck with that!
Quote:
Dutch levels of co-operation between clubs seems fairly unthinkable here in Ireland where the FAI puts its investment in the last four years in “grassroots programmes, high performance, and emerging talent programmes” at €60 million but resistance from schoolboy outfits to a national under-17 league is one of the problems Dokter, like Wim Koevermans before him, will have to contend with.
I thought this interview with Jurgen Klinsmann was interesting
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...oach-world-cup
I think this article that was linked to me after I read that Klinsmann one is more apt for Ireland...
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...world-cup-2014
I'll see that guardian article and raise it
http://www.theguardian.com/football/...ion-world-cup-
Great article. Smaller pitches, 2v2, 5v5 and 8v8 looks to have worked for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Exactly what thecoachdiary.com recommends.
Very informative article alright and not a knock on you nagger or anyone who has posted on this topic, but are we that far behind the times in Ireland that we are really only waking up now to the concept of smaller pitches and 2 v 2, 5 v 5's etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagger
The reason I ask is that I have lived in America for 20 plus years and small pitches and small sided games has been the order of the day for as long as I can remember. I played at LOI level back home and I can honestly tell you that I learned more in the first six months after coming to America than I did in my entire life at home. It's all down to coaching at the end of the day and from what I can gather, but I hope someone proves me wrong, the coaching in Ireland for young kids is s****.
I read somewhere a few months ago that the next year should produce a lot talent in Ireland because of some new coaching scheme the FAI have implemented?
That seems to be the 'official' word but the word from the man on the street (on this forum) would seem to suggest otherwise?
How are we fixed in Ireland for a revolution in coaching like the Belgians have done? Does anyone have an opinion?
I'd like to see some wealthy types like Desmond and O'Brien offer financial support for a proper coach education programme. That'd be a great start. But the rest of the problems remain: a dysfunctional pyramid with vested interests looking after their own needs and no orderly pathway up the pyramid into what would ideally be a more professional top tier. I think some people are doing the right things, but we need everyone to be doing the right thing.
An enlightened vision Stutts, but the word dysfunctional remains attached to Irish youth coaching it seems. Pity. Are we ever going to stop being our own worst enemies?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
To be honest, I don't know that much about Irish coaching. I'm living in Holland myself, and overhere its all smaller pitches, and in training its 2v2 , 3v3, sometimes 3v2, 3 attackers v 2 defenders. and when the kids play tournaments, its 5v5. The kids learn some much. Some kids couldnt control a ball when they started, and if you see them now, 6 months to a year later. The difference is unbelieveable. Thats my experience so far in HollandQuote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
I was checking reading an article, http://www.thecoachdiary.com/coachtalk-anthony-oneill/ and was sorry to see only 2 clubs in Ireland are using the Ajax online academy and TIPS model.
Not sure if the coaching revolution is headed for Ireland anytime soon. I hope so offcourse :)
Cheers Nagger for that insight from on the ground in Holland. Their coaching system needs no introductions and the evidence of their work comes from their repeated appearances in the latter stages of major tournaments, and that form a country with a population about double of ours. Illustrates my point exactly - it's all down to coaching. And at the end of the day, the biggest obstacle to the progress of Irish football, at this moment in time, is the ill educated coaches who are in charge of our youth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagger
It's down to coaching yes, but then also structure feeding to league of ireland as pinnacle. The very best go to England young but the rest stay for a few years and learn to play the game in a semi-professional league before moving on.
I have to say, watching a small but dedicated crowd in Cork cheering on St Mochta's, it's a pity there's only so high a club can go in this league. You'd imagine they'd love to have the chance of seeing their team playing league clubs more often.
Who are they playing?
Mochta's? They drew Cork City in the cup on Friday night. They were beaten 6-0 but that wasn't really the point - they brought down what looked like a crowd of 30+, which is pretty good for a LSL Division 1B side. They're also from the large part of Dublin with no LOI side.
Good coaching is definately needed. But the best players should be playing football at least 1.5 to 2 hours, 5 days a week. If they can get in Ireland. Great! If they have to go to England, also great.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I used to go to school with kids who played for AZ Alkmaar. They had a daily training session out of school, sometimes even twice a day. And on saturday was match day.
Are there any clubs in Ireland who do this?
I would seriously doubt it. I remember training for a LOI team back in the day and wondering to meself - "we train twice a week, how good would we be if we trained four times a week?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagger
There's lots of very good points being made here. For me, youth development or lack of it is a far more cutting and important problem for Irish soccer than our lack of quality in the senior side right now.
The key for me is increasing the amount of UEFA accredited coaches in the country. I've seen youth teams in the smaller schoolboy clubs thrive more in 2 days of a session with a UEFA qualified coach than 3-4 years with their own coach, who often can be very good and well intentioned, but lacks the know-how to take their kids to the next level. I will try and find out where we stand with regard to the rest of Europe, but I think to go through all your badges right through to UEFA A can cost up to 10,000 euro in Ireland. Clubs like St Kevin's, Crumlin United etc can afford to send coaches to get their badges, but not the smaller clubs. For us, to really kick on, every schoolboy club should have one coach with at least a UEFA B licence (ideally more). The FAI need to roll out the coaching badges and make it far more feasible to do. In the past, it wasn't the same issue - the kids in Dublin and Cork were street footballers and had the technical ability of the foreigners, even if they lacked the coaching. Now, street football is almost a forgotten thing in this part of the world.
Another thing that needs to happen is that LOI clubs should be centres of excellence in their locality for the best young talent. All the coaches at Rovers/Bohs/Cork etc right through from the youngest age-group should have UEFA A licences. Our LOI clubs will still lose a Noe Baba or Jack Byrne to English clubs, just like FC Copenhagen or Partizan Belgrade do, but the lads left will be of a much higher standard, and there will be a massive knock on effect for the LOI. The FAI should support this by having a properly run LOI academy league. At the current time, the top schoolboy clubs run the show for youth football. It's hard to be critical when if it wasn't for them, we would produce next to nothing, but wouldn't it be great if it was Rovers or Bohs or Sligo having the cream of the talent.
It would also be great if FAI coaches went into local schools and spent time with kids teaching them skills and getting kids involved in sport that otherwise might not. A friend of mine is a headmaster and he has an FAI coach coming in playing football with the kids once a week for an hour. That's down to him being friends with this man, who is doing it off his own bat for free. Wouldn't it be great if it happened in every school. The GAA and the IRFU seem to be proactive with schools. The FAI need to do likewise.
Is there anything that can be done by us to try and get things changed? Would it be good if all of the fans groups on the various sites like here and YBIG lobbied the FAI and really threw it into the public domain to try and get things changed? I'm not sure if it would make a difference, but I'd love if I could make some small difference and be in the stands watching us lose a quarter final to Argentina in 2030, rather than finish 5th in a qualification group!!
What about a trying to drum up support to get this Oireachtas Committee to ask questions of the FAI?
http://www.oireachtas.ie/parliament/...tions/members/
I'm not great on social media but I'm sure somehow all 25 people in Ireland who actually care anymore can be united!
It needn't be threatening to the FAI. Quite simply the terms could be "If you could start afresh how would you do things? Is this different to the status quo? What obstacles prevent change?".
In the UK the Department of Culture Media and Sport organised a thorough inquiry into football's governance and as a result a Football Governance Bill is being put through parliament right now.
The Oireactas Committee linked above were pretty eager to invite the GAA in to answer for their decision to sell TV rights to SKY. There is a Dail group of football supporting TDs and of course Mick Wallace has in interest in these matters. Personally I expect government can't give a hoot even though the ISC channels funding to the FAI on their behalf.
I think the Denis O'Briens of the country could be able to help financially. The problem is that nobody knows what the problem is but plenty offer trite solutions like a 32 county team or entering Leinster into the Champions League :(
that would be brilliant. We need to get the problems of underage football in this country out in a more public domain. how would we need to do it before approaching the Oireachtas Stuttgart? Would we need to get information for them to put to the FAI such as comparisons with other countries? Would several fans groups add weight to the fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I like the idea. With the right support who's to say it couldn't produce something useful?
It seems to me that the three key people on that committee are John O'Mahoney, Mick Wallace and Eamon Coughlan - all three have the strong sports background to appreciate the benefits of good sporting infrastructure and practice. Wallace, though, has a conflict of interest given the Youths and might have to step back on it.
For anything to get brought up at a JHOC, it needs to be current or related to legislation, or (cynic!) capable of shining a positive light on the members. Anything else is harder to put on the agenda. Knowing at the outset what you want to achieve is crucial: do you want to mark the FAI's cards, create a debate (again, why?), facilitate state-private sector involvement etc. The better briefed the JHOC is, the stronger the case, so a comprehensive briefing document and meetings or other communication with the members would be essential. At the very least, you would need to know at the outset which members of the committee would support a national debate on football, and for instance,which would care little about it, or prefer to be seen active on GAA issues. That's where having an organisation behind you makes sense.
Just riffing with ideas, but questions on underage coaching (tied into tackling social disadvantage or crossing the gender divide), preventing the forced migration of youngsters to UK clubs, potential employment opportunities from professionalisation of clubs (players and administration) and exchequer benefits from infrastructure projects, increased commercial activity etc that that would bring. As I said, just riffing -there are probably much better things to consider.
I know it's the Daily Mail and the whole "Belgian system" thing has been done to death, but decent article here. Not that at no point did anybody talk about how they could get players going to France and the Netherlands at a younger age.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...eam-today.html
Good article overall. Haven't we got a few underage players at Anderlecht, one being a goalkeeper? Maybe we benefit from their blueprint!
The Belgium blueprint
- Winning at all costs is over-rated
- Five against five games at youth levels
- Seven against seven for older kids
- Delayed introduction to full-size pitches
Seems simple enough :)
slightly related - Dundee United have sold 18 year old midfielder Ryan Gauld to Sporting Lisbon, his new contract includes a 60m buy out clause - http://www.theguardian.com/football/...use?CMP=twt_gu
I work with a Belgian, who is very much into football, and he told me that there is quite a lot of scepticism in Belgium from people outside the Belgian FA about the extent of the credit/praise that the Belgian FA are claiming for the new wave of Belgian players.
Also slightly related. Young Scottish left back Stephen Kingsley has signed for Swansea, a good passing team. Robert Snodgrass is back in the PL with Hull. Ross McCormack linked with a big money move to PL clubs. Chris Kettings has moved to Crystal Palace as back up for Julian Speroni. West Brom had a bid rejected for Andrew Robertson. Burnley had a bid rejected for Craig Bryson. Matt Gilks heavily linked with PL clubs. Ross Wallace, Paul Gallagher, Scott Arfield and Matt Phillips have all been promoted to the PL with their clubs.
Meanwhile no Irish players have made moves to top tier teams in any country. No Irish players look like doing so. Pilkington would probably be the best bet but his well documented injury problems seem to have turned teams off. Richard Dunne is the only Irish player that got promoted and he is 35, and QPR have signed Rio and are looking to sign at least one more CB.
The numbers of Irish players in the PL are ever decreasing, there are scarcely any Irish players that look like making the move, the Irish players that get promoted aren't judged good enough to make the step up (Garvan, Treacy), our most talented young player outside the top flight signed a new contract at Derby (and there are far younger players than him making the step up) and whatever lads could make an ambitious move to a bigger team or decent standard foreign team don't seem to have the bottle or determination to do so.
It's pure depressing.
Like the biggest move from an Irish standpoint this summer is going to be Roy Keane, and he is our assistant manager!
Do we have a few? I know of one - Liam Bossin - who qualifies through his mother. He's the goalkeeper and has been included in a few of our under-age squads.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
Robin Walsh is the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
TOWK's post prompted me to dig up this old article from 2009 which I posted in 2010 after England's World Cup exit.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/...track-1.992388
It was an article by management consultant Alistair Gray (of Genesis Report fame) calling on the SFA to urgently overhaul the workings of Scottish football. I wonder if any part of their upturn in fortunes can be attributed to his suggestions?
It took me a while to locate the article but some of my unsuccessful searches resulted in articles he wrote bigging up the work he did for the FAI, trumpeting the work of JD, the FAI governance reforms, and the appointment of Koevermans and bemoaning the lack of similar characters or imaginative appointments in Scotland. I wonder what he thinks now!
Edit: I just read the Mail article on Belgium above, not realising that the SFA is mimicking the Belgian model.
I can't even detect whether any of this strategic soul searching is even on the FAI's agenda. I'm happy to give Ruud Dokter the benefit of the doubt. His CV is impressive and I reckon he knows his stuff. My gut feeling (another one) is that many of the right ingredients are in place in Ireland. Our coaches aren't stupid and I'm led to believe there is a growing body of enlightened young coaches trying to do things differently. The NDSL is apparently very impressive, for example.
Facilities? I've no idea, but it expect in the lesser population areas they're terrible.
Coach education? We have some good coaches but nowhere near enough.
The shape of the game? Factions, divisions and chaos is what it looks like to me.
Funding? Nobody is prepared to invest but everybody is happy to try and get in on the action when the bandwagon starts rolling
In a curious sense, the lack of money in the Scottish game is probably working to their advantage. In 2009 less than half of SPL players were Scottish eligible. I'd say there are a lot more now and a proper pathway has opened up for Scottish talent to progress.
I see Sporting Lisbon snapped up promising Dundee United youngster Ryan Gauld on a six-year contract for £3 million with a release clause of €60 million. He's been dubbed "Baby Messi", but he hasn't represented Scotland at senior level yet.
Do they pronounce it 'Valsh' in Belgium?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Where did you see that? Tets posted it yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Are you having a conversation with yourself there?Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
in Flanders yes, Wallonia no :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I've just seen Ryan Gauld on Sky. And people say Chris Forrester needs to bulk up?
Some of the better players at the World Cup are seriously skinny. Neymar would be one.
It was directed at Mr Invincible who missed Tets' post from yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I fear eligibility discussions wafting from that flippant post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
People confuse skinny with weak, I think. Forrester would get outmuscled if he went to England, I think. In fact, I think he might have a hard time of it against the Poles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
They're pretty static. He should have no problem walking around them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin