With Drogheda in there next year as well, the First Division can rebrand as the Champions' League.
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With Drogheda in there next year as well, the First Division can rebrand as the Champions' League.
where not there yet smart guy .And bohs going boom might help us make a playoff . You enjoying our demise then ?
Well I know which club I'd rather support.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Your local club?Quote:
Originally Posted by CMcC
Glad to see your giving up so easily there BonnieShels in the First Division promotion race :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
whereas if bohs are in the first div could it be rebranded as the chumpions leagueQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Oh no not at all. Sure aren't Pat's, UCD, The Fungus and Shams in Dublin?Quote:
Originally Posted by pateen
Roll on tomorrow night! Nyiaow!
It's sad to see any club in trouble and there's no glorying in anyone's demise. I know we can all slam them for overspending, overreaching etc, though we've all had our clubs in such a position at some point or another.
I don't think any club has ever been in this bad a position in this country.
Depends how you define "this bad". In terms of overall debt, probably not. But Bohs do have dalymount as a far greater asset than previous cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
If Bohs survive (and I hope and think they will), then they're obviously not in as bad a position as all the clubs who have folded. Remember tha before licensing loads of clubs simply folded and re-started.
I suppose I should have qualified that by saying "any current club". Which takes out a lot of worse clubs kind of by definition.
Obviously, I hope Bohs survive. But lack of cash kills businesses, not lack of assets. I can see them folding sometime next year because they don't have the cash to repay Zurich - that's why I think the statement that they don't expect to sell the ground for seven years is so concerning, and that's why I reckon they're in a worse state than any LoI club previously.
They can't go into examinership and wipe their debts. They can't have a massive Drogheda-like fundraiser to clear debts (cos they're too big). Even Shels had actually sold their ground and, it seems, didn't have interest payments or repayments to worry about.
And obviously, if they folded, I'm sure they'd reform and maybe even play out of Dalyer while its future got sorted out. But I can genuinely see them going under.
I dont think that is obvious at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
In a buoyant property market, Bohs would not be in trouble.
In the current market, their main asset cannot yield them cash to fund their debts.
Their difficulties are quite different to other clubs who have experienced trouble in the last couple of years. However, when one looks at the business environment today, companies are going to the wall with the same type of liquidity problems as Bohs.
How does this €1,000 loan work?
The club member goes in to the bank, signs a paper and €1000 is transferred to Bohs' account. Bohs take care of the loan - offpayments/interest. If Bohs collapse, the lender can go back (with full legal right) to the club member to recover any difference?
Why do you think there a bank involved? Bohs don't care how their lenders get the money
They hope some one with money to spare, gives it to them. IN return they'll pay that person 5% per annum (inflation adjustable) and repay the capital sum when bohs sell dalymount
When rovers asked for its members to pay its membership fees for 5 and 10 years in advance, at least they had already arranged finance with a bank (and of course, those who paid in advance were likely to pay anyway)
I got the idea from the Indo article but I was very open to being mistaken:)
From the Indo,
"the club has a major asset in Dalymount Park and loans to Bohemian FC will be secured by charge on that property under a trust deed."
I see now that Bohs don't care where the club member gets the money from. And that "loans to Bohs" is not referring to a members' bank loan, but referring only to the loan from the member to the club and being "secured" by the club's asset.
Depending on paperwork and formality, this -
- should still be correct though. If Bohs collapse, and when Dalymount sells, the lender would be entitled to be repaid from the proceeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I think Dodge may have misinterpreted where you see the bank fitting into things. There's no bank on Bohs' side arranging the deal, but yeah, the person giving the loan may be taking a loan out to cover it. Similar to what Drogheda did last year.
I read the Indo article again and checked the Bohs forum, this is alot more disconcerting than I thought. I understand all the terms being uttered and how it all works, though what is worrying is that they have arrived here to soon. I would have thought, with a little foresight and planning, that a proper investment fund could be set up to keep things going. I know it would be set against future income, though it does raise the question - will they have enough to last through the off season if they don't win the league? And will they be able to offload players for next season?
But its not mandatory. Thats the point I was making.
(And I had it confirmed frm a Bohs mate after asking earlier in the thread, Bohs did actually ask members to get loans (from banks) on their behalf before)
I sorta thought (more a delusion) that Bohs had made some arrangement with a lender, so that the members could queue up (in their hundreds) and sign a bit of paper as a second guarantor for a €1,000 loan, but to be secured first on Bohs' assets.
They're main problem is far too immediate to wait until a proper investment strategy can be formed, because they now seem to be out of cashflow. The newly launched scheme has no upper or lower limit as in they'll take the coins you'd find down the back of your sofa right now and include you as a creditor. They're contractual obligations for next year for players and staff are huge. The top earners who took a pay cut last year did so with the previso of a six month extention to their contracts, which actually makes them more money than if they hadn't taken the cut. So they're still under contract until next July, I'm not sure if the 9 or 10 players they signed this year got a two year deal, obviously if they did then thats more owed, the first instalment of the Zurich loan is due in January, although I have heard that Albion may take that on in return for the ownership of the car park, no quotes, just what I heard from a gypo mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Even if they win the league and the cup and have CL monies to look forward to, I don't believe that will see them through to the start of next season, unless all contracted players and staff agree to just walk away with nothing and I'd doubt that would happen. Maybe if they promise them money when Dalyer is sold in 2017, could be a runner.
Unfortunately for the genuine fans of the club who've been workin hard to avoid this tragedy, it looks quite possible that they'll be following a bohs 2011 or afc boez team or something playing in the first division next year. It's a horrible situation for the fans but reality had to bite down there sometime.
Christ, that's worse than I thought! Though I'm sure that somehow it'll be worked out, at least I hope so.
On a related point, and this is something a Bohs fan or someone close to one knows the answer to: did the staff and players refuse to play TNS without reciving their bonuses or payments?
I half remember a story about the Dundalk players (Flanagan at the head?) having a serious enough stand-off with the chairman at the Airport prior to departure to some place.... Yugoslavia?
I think the chairman caved in and paid up the salaries owed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
how long ago did this happen geysir?
That was going over to play Varteks in Croatia, at least it sounds like the story I was told over there. I was in the country by chance and drove up to the game - glorious sunshine and the fans enjoying the weather, and local brew!
It was 2002.
One thing bohs are better at than Rovers it seems is their boycott from this s.ite.:shut:
CmcC is a bohs fan. So is dalymountrower. Both have commented on this thread. Now i have.
What do you want Bohs fans to say exactly?
Maybe acknowledging that as a members club you all presided over and voted for ridiculous plans that are ultimately going to bankrupt your own club, all in the name of chasing the European dream and getting "4 in a row". And to think of all the guffawing you all did when shels/ollie byrne did the same thing. It's your club and as a members club you all take the blame, not just cuffe, conway and the rest of the buffoons you all elected.
thought so.
This was in 1977, Dundalk beat Hajuk Spilt 1-0 at home, I think infront of 5,000, so the players knew the club took in decent money, a mexican standoff of some sort did indeed take place in Dublin airport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
Jackie McManus was one of the players, I think he was the captain, other mentioned was Terry Flanagan, unsure of exact details and how it was resolved, but both players left shortly afterwards if I remember correctly.
You got the gist of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Dundalk's woe began even before they left to travel to the airport. In previous European games Dundalk reimbursed players loss of wages. As this would have resulted in varying amounts of money being paid out this time Dundalk offered lump sums. On the previous Friday night Tommy McConville and Tony Cavanagh approached the board to have their dole money reimbursed. This was refused on the grounds that the players were already been "well done by" with the good "spending money" that they were offered. The matter was raised again in Dublin airport as the team assembled to depart for Split. There were many different versions of what actually happened but a number of players including club captain Jackie McManus and Player's Union representative Mick Lawlor also got involved. After a lot of discussion McConville and Cavanagh agreed to travel without getting their wish. But the Club chairman Oliver Quinn informed both players that they were not welcome on the plane. The club released an official statement "Due to a serious breach of club discipline, prior to departure at Dublin airport, two players, Tommy McConville and Tony Cavanagh, did not travel". A young Martin Lawlor got his break into the first team squad as a result. Unfortunately the ramifications were serious for a number of players. Tony Cavanagh was never to play for Dundalk again, Tommy McConville appeared to be have been "sacked" but made an apology to the club and was back playing again by November, and Jackie McManus who got caught up in the discussion in the airport played his last game for the club in Split and was transferred to Drogheda United.
http://www.dundalkfc.com/dundalkfcwe...pe_77Split.htm
Thanks White Horse, I thought it was the later version. That Dundalk team did a great job home and away, almost putting out one of the best sides to play for Hajduk. It was 0-0 at half time in Split too.
In fairness, unless you know how the Bohs fans on here voted you can't really tar them all with the same brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by sundance kid
Although Derry City isn't and wasn't a members club, in similar circumstances some of the shareholders did dissent, repeatedly and got short shrift.
By all means castigate the majority of chumps who accepted what they were being told, but I wouldn't use that to damn 100% of fans.
Nothing worse than a smug soapbox pontificatorQuote:
Originally Posted by sundance kid
Oh the irony.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Réiteoir
The Indo does mention bank loans, even though the Bohs statement did not: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...t-2359055.html
Maybe its more to do with years of "The Big Club", and "We are Invincible" all being paid for with money you didn't have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Réiteoir
The bottom line is that the turkeys voted for christmas, and now they're crying because Santa showed up with a smile on his face, a packet of paxo, and a meat cleaver.
Jeez you have it bad ! Did you have this fixation with all clubs that were in trouble (Shels, Shams, Drogs, Cork etc) or is it just a Bohs thing ? years of "the big club" and "we are invincible" ? if you took/take footie chants that seriously you have bigger problems than Bohs do :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by sundance kid
maybe you should treat internet posts as you'd like him to treat football chants thenQuote:
Originally Posted by marinobohs