Another Nordie thread

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

What line in the anthem do you think is militaristic?

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'Soldiers' song' is something of a giveaway, like.

As D9 69 suggests, anthems tend to be thus. Close to home Britain/ England's and Scotland's explicitly mention battles against each other. I'm no fan of any of them, but you can't have it both ways. As I've said before on related threads, we could do worse than choose a more contemporary punk rant like Alternative Ulster or Gloria (Them not U2).

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

The threads featuring the OWC lads always start out as entertaining until we all plummet down the sink hole of the finer details of FIFA's current eligibility rules or the sub-clauses of the Good Friday Agreement

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Sorry if it doesn't entertain you as far as page three. And to be so po-faced, but you should realise it ****es us off from post one. Just like every other thread/ play/ other medium that effectively says 'you're all bigots/ useless at football, why not give up your team and support ours instead'?

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Once they crop up it only serves to remind me that what we need is an actual match between Ireland V N.Ireland. No messin. Winner takes all - including bragging rights. Roll on Spring 2011

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That's better. Just don't forget the notional possibility of a(nother) night in November (2009), or in South Africa itself?

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

The threads featuring the OWC lads always start out as entertaining until we all plummet down the sink hole of the finer details of FIFA's current eligibility rules or the sub-clauses of the Good Friday Agreement.

Once they crop up it only serves to remind me that what we need is an actual match between Ireland V N.Ireland. No messin. Winner takes all - including bragging rights. Roll on Spring 2011.

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Wolfie did you mean this when you said takes all?

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Originally Posted by Gather round

'Soldiers' song' is something of a giveaway, like.
Sorry if it doesn't entertain you as far as page three. And to be so po-faced, but you should realise it ****es us off from post one. Just like every other thread/ play/ other medium that effectively says 'you're all bigots/ useless at football, why not give up your team and support ours instead'?

That's better. Just don't forget the notional possibility of a(nother) night in November (2009), or in South Africa itself?

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Apology accepted.

We've no fixture planned against NI in 2009. Do you mean the notional possibility of meeting in November 2010 in the Euro Qualifiers?

That's a nice gesture for NI fans to travel to South Africa to cheer us on. Fair play.

Paul - that was just a turn of phrase. No deeper meaning or anything.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Apology accepted.

We've no fixture planned against NI in 2009. Do you mean the notional possibility of meeting in November 2010 in the Euro Qualifiers?

That's a nice gesture for NI fans to travel to South Africa to cheer us on. Fair play.

Paul - that was just a turn of phrase. No deeper meaning or anything.

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Possible World Cup play off obviously.

Back of the class facing the wall Wolfie! (Unless of course you were deliberately discounting any chance of them making it to garner a response!)

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Possible World Cup play off obviously.

Back of the class facing the wall Wolfie! (Unless of course you were deliberately discounting any chance of them making it to garner a response!)

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Have to be honest - never considered the possibility of a World Cup Play Off!!

Jaysus - it would be some craic on here if that transpired.

I'd say we have a 25% chance of finishing in the top two, then say 35% of winning a play off. So roughly 9% overall or 10/1 as the bookies say. You can only dream...

Group 3 top two :

Czechia 70% likely
Poland 55%
Slovakia 30%
NI 25%
Slovenia 20%
San Marino tending to 0%

I would put that at more like 11.4% to be honest, however I am no actuary! :D

Paul- 25% x 35% is 8.75%. Trust me (I'm not an actuary either, although I did apply for a job as one when at TCD).

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Originally Posted by Gather round

I'd say we have a 25% chance of finishing in the top two, then say 35% of winning a play off. So roughly 9% overall or 10/1 as the bookies say. You can only dream...

Group 3 top two :

Czechia 70% likely
Poland 55%
Slovakia 30%
NI 25%
Slovenia 20%
San Marino tending to 0%

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Now, of course if both Irelands were to hypothetically joins forces if you will..................

Easy Tiger!! - Just messin about :D

On that bombshell, this tiger is slinking back into the undergrowth. Leaving you as king of the jungle, Wolfie :D

GR, we went to different schools, but I am pretty sure thats not how probability works:

25/100* 35/100 = e11.4%

as the chance goes down you multiply.

sorry indeed that answer that you gave is about right GR, i was being a thick with the calulator and multiplying 1/35 being a thick.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If you are referring to Billy Bingham, then you couldn't be more wrong.

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http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Billy-Bingham

Bingham caused controversy by allegedly conducting the crowd in renditions of Loyalist songs 'Billy Boys' and 'The Sash' when the Republic of Ireland travelled to Windsor Park for a World Cup qualifier in 1993. Bingham claimed at the time that his only intention was to get the crowd behind the team, not to provoke sectarian hatred. The Republic's manager Jack Charlton (who, ironically, later detailed singing IRA songs with the team in his autobiography), refused to shake hands with Bingham after the match.
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To be honest, I just remember him egging on the crowd to sing "There's only one team in Ireland" (that's the part the tv showed as I was watching it in the comfort of my front room) and I didn't see the other alleged incitements mentioned above. I do remember being really p++++ed with him, possibly because we were losing, but he was enjoying it just too much. He is in no doubt a hero to most NI fans just as Charlton is to most of our fans but that alas is my lasting memory of William Laurence "Billy" Bingham.

my last memory is "billy bingham budapest" :D

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Wasn't it Jock Stein who said that?

Dinnae play friendlies, I mean.

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I thought it was Roy Keane.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

my last memory is "billy bingham budapest" :D

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...man of magic Georgie Best ;)

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Billy-Bingham

Bingham caused controversy by allegedly conducting the crowd in renditions of Loyalist songs 'Billy Boys' and 'The Sash' when the Republic of Ireland travelled to Windsor Park for a World Cup qualifier in 1993. Bingham claimed at the time that his only intention was to get the crowd behind the team, not to provoke sectarian hatred. The Republic's manager Jack Charlton (who, ironically, later detailed singing IRA songs with the team in his autobiography), refused to shake hands with Bingham after the match.
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To be honest, I just remember him egging on the crowd to sing "There's only one team in Ireland" (that's the part the tv showed as I was watching it in the comfort of my front room) and I didn't see the other alleged incitements mentioned above. I do remember being really p++++ed with him, possibly because we were losing, but he was enjoying it just too much. He is in no doubt a hero to most NI fans just as Charlton is to most of our fans but that alas is my lasting memory of William Laurence "Billy" Bingham.

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If you only remember him egging the crowd on to sing OTII, why did you call him "Billy Bigot"?

What evidence do you actually have for such a scandalous (and undoubtedly actionable) claim, other than a sub-Wikipedia statistical website from Australia, which even itself has the grace to to use the term "allegedly".
You obviously must have Googled this; was this really the best you came up with? :rolleyes:

And have you forgotten what I posted about Bingham's actual record of playing with and managing Catholic players, all of whom seemed to 'go the extra yard' for this so-called bigot? Or his choice of Best Man? I might have mentioned that his first international manager, whom he has frequently lauded, was a certain Peter "The Great" Doherty - a Catholic from Magherafelt.

I ask again, how do you reconcile all that with allegations of bigotry?

The simple fact is, you can't, and if you have any honour, you will accept that you have been misled by Chinese Whispers and withdraw your original claim.

I don't think it is fair or accurate to protray Billy Bingham as a bigot.

I think his record as NI manager speaks for itself and his relationship with former players regardless of their religion. I also have spoken with people who dealt with him when he brought teams to Waterford and donegal and they could have spoken. I also spoke with somebody who clearly hated him a few months before that night in November and recounted some negative stuff about Billy (nothing illegal or even immoral) which I haven't heard from anybody else before or since. Significantly he never claimed that he was in anyway bigoted.

The one team in Ireland chant hurt like hell at the time and was cruel and horrible, However we also deserved it given it was sang a few months earlier at Lansdowne when we were 3 up.

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Originally Posted by gspain

The one team in Ireland chant hurt like hell

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Then you won't have liked the variation sung a couple of times last campaign, when Lawrie's Boys were laying waste to all round them and Stan's Boys were just, well, wasted:

"There's only Two Teams in Ireland,
Only Two Teams in Ireland,
The other one's sh1te,
But we're doing all right,
Walking in a Windsor Wonderland"

;)

P.S. I know it's childish, but I can't resist. Besides, who knows how long it'll be before we get another chance to sing it? :cool:

When the loyalists team have three players who could make the Ireland team, then they can call us "sh1te" all they want in Ibro........I mean Windsor.

I was in the Railway stand for the game and personally didn't hear the Greysteel chants, but some work colleagues who were seated in the lower deck of the North stand that night said the 'trick or treat' & 'Greysteel' chants were pretty loud from their position, but from small groups of NI fans rather than the majority. I'm fairly sure it was highlighted in the Belfast papers the following day.

There was off course all the usual sectarian chanting and songs that accompanied NI games at Windsor Park during the 70's,80,s & 90's, but that was the 'norm'.

For me, and what sticks in my mind , was the racist chanting and monkey chants directed at Paul McGrath and Terry Phelan that evening, disgraceful stuff, especially when its coming from kids sitting with their Fathers. And not forgetting Alan Kernaghan who was singled out even before the start of the game with all manner of insults, as he recounted in an interview years later :

“It was probably the worst I felt personally in terms of a real cutting edge to the slagging. You could feel the venom in it but it didn’t bother me too much.” What kind of stuff? “‘Your mother’s the Pope’s whore’, 'Kernaghan, you’re a f****** Fenian turncoat.” and that sort of stuff. As low as low can get.

But sure it all worked out in the end, Alan McLaughlin on as sub for Houghton, on the chest, bottom left hand corner of the net 1-1, Spain 1 Denmark 0 and 'half' of Belfast celebrated.

A very memorable and late night, as i recall :)

I saw the play back around circa 1995, when the lesser eejit from 'Foreign Bodies' was doing it. I found it a slight bit cringing in its stereotyping of people from both sides, especially (forgive me if I'm wrong) the father - in - law. Also thought this bloke upping sticks and following 'the south' to the 1994 World Cup sort of stretching artitistic licence to its absolute limit. Could be forgiven it was Lynda La Plante that wrote it, but not a so - called native.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Sorry mate. I was only a kid 20 years ago...

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LOL! :D You've had a hard life!

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Originally Posted by Gather round

...we could do worse than choose a more contemporary punk rant like Alternative Ulster or Gloria (Them not U2).

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I thought Laura Brannigan sang that. :confused:

does anyone know if this game can be gotten on DVD anywhere??

I have had a look on the internet, but can't find it anywhere. I was only 10 or so, but I remember the match fairly vividly, and for all that happened I remember the drama of the night above anything else. If i'm right our game finished, but the Denmark Spain game was still going, and if Denmark had equalised we were sunk.

I also went to see the play in the Grand Opera House in the Kielty run, and thought it was very good. Following this play there seems to be an element of revisionism being attempted by Northern Ireland fans about this game. As far as i remember it McGrath and Phelan tooks dogs abuse, with monkey chants and the like from beginning to end, and when they weren't on the ball it went back to "billy boys" and "up to our necks in fenian blood".

But I could be wrong. I would really like to see this game again.

did the players get drawn into all this

or did the right result just happen(I could only listen on a radio on that night)

I saw the play in dublin earlier in the year. While it was interesting to see i felt it was very one sided.

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Originally Posted by backtowalsall

does anyone know if this game can be gotten on DVD anywhere??

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I have it on tape someplace.

Not
http://www.totalrewind.org/betamax/photos/bmx_gv00.jpg

Betamax? :eek:

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Originally Posted by SuperDub

I saw the play in dublin earlier in the year. While it was interesting to see i felt it was very one sided.

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Which side did you feel it was it on?

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Originally Posted by geysir

Not
http://www.totalrewind.org/betamax/photos/bmx_gv00.jpg

Betamax? :

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:D:D I think I had just about switched away from Betamax then. Shame as I have a whole load of games on Beta (not to mention the porno tapes) but I suspect the quality is fading by the year (not that it matters as I can't play them).

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

:D:D I think I had just about switched away from Betamax then. Shame as I have a whole load of games on Beta (not to mention the porno tapes) but I suspect the quality is fading by the year (not that it matters as I can't play them).

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Owl, you need to get in contact with this guy.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VIDEO-TRANSFER...d=p3286.c0.m14

I never met Billy Bingham, but I remember supporting NI as a kid in the world cup and in particulat the night they beat Spain, always appears to be a perfect gentleman.

Also he was probably a better manager than Charlton given his record and the fact that IMO he never had as good a group of players as Chrarlton had.

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Originally Posted by backtowalsall

does anyone know if this game can be gotten on DVD anywhere??

I have had a look on the internet, but can't find it anywhere. I was only 10 or so, but I remember the match fairly vividly, and for all that happened I remember the drama of the night above anything else. If i'm right our game finished, but the Denmark Spain game was still going, and if Denmark had equalised we were sunk.

I also went to see the play in the Grand Opera House in the Kielty run, and thought it was very good. Following this play there seems to be an element of revisionism being attempted by Northern Ireland fans about this game. As far as i remember it McGrath and Phelan tooks dogs abuse, with monkey chants and the like from beginning to end, and when they weren't on the ball it went back to "billy boys" and "up to our necks in fenian blood".

But I could be wrong. I would really like to see this game again.

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The Road to the USA documentary also has some great footage of the players on the pitch following the final whistle in Windsor Park and the nervy wait for the Spain/Denmark game.

It features an over-joyed Roy Keane hugging Sponge Operations Officer, Mick Byrne at one point. :D

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

"There's only Two Teams in Ireland,
Only Two Teams in Ireland,
The other one's sh1te,
But we're doing all right,
Walking in a Windsor Wonderland"

;)

P.S. I know it's childish, but I can't resist. Besides, who knows how long it'll be before we get another chance to sing it? :cool:

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If that nursery ryhme helps combat the pathological inferiority complex - knock yourself out. :rolleyes:

Beyond obsession.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

"There's only Two Teams in Ireland .....

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Interesting use of preposition EG ;)

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

If that nursery ryhme helps combat the pathological inferiority complex - knock yourself out. :rolleyes:

Beyond obsession.

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Wow! Fans of one football team sing a (mildly p1ss-taking) song about a neighbouring team? Who'd ever have thought? :eek:

If that qualifies for the epithets "pathological" and "obsessive", where does that leave your seeming inability to forebear from responding?

It was just a little joke, that's all. :cool:

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Interesting use of preposition EG ;)

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How so? :confused:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Wow! Fans of one football team sing a (mildly p1ss-taking) song about a neighbouring team? Who'd ever have thought? :eek:

If that qualifies for the epithets "pathological" and "obsessive", where does that leave your seeming inability to forebear from responding?

It was just a little joke, that's all. :cool:

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As much an observation as a response.

To clarify, we'd have to take that "witty" chant on the chin considering the way we were playing at the time - my issue is that it's just symptomatic of what I'd consider to be an obsession with the Irish team and its supporters that you'd go to the trouble!!

There's more at play than just healthy rivalry here - which we all understand is part of football culture.

Not saying its right or wrong - again, just an observation.

Agree that there is an awful lot more than "healthy rivalry" in the discourse between RoI and NI fans, and to be fair to EG its far from one-sided. None of this bodes too well for future Celtic Cup encounters. Here's a radical thought. Totally understand that the idea of an All Ireland international team is not a runner (unacceptable to many unionists, and other committed supporters of both sides), but The Celtic Cup is not a FIFA sanctioned competition, and maybe it would be an opportunity to field an all-ireland team without prejudice to what happens in other competitions. The only way that I can ever imagine fans of both sides burying current antagonisms is giving them an oportunity to get behind a combined (albeit unofficial) team every now and again. There are precedents for kosher countries (scotland and wales) playing "internationals" against ad-hoc or unofficial selections. Wales played a friendly against a Basque selection a year or two ago.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

The Celtic Cup is not a FIFA sanctioned competition, and maybe it would be an opportunity to field an all-ireland team without prejudice to what happens in other competitions. The only way that I can ever imagine fans of both sides burying current antagonisms is giving them an oportunity to get behind a combined (albeit unofficial) team every now and again. There are precedents for kosher countries (scotland and wales) playing "internationals" against ad-hoc or unofficial selections. Wales played a friendly against a Basque selection a year or two ago

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Nice try, Third. Let's defuse the row about an all-Ireland team by, er having one? I don't think so.

You could equally have suggested a joint side with England- against whose fans I see plenty of antagonism on this board. Imagine, having Mikey Owen to come on when Keane and Doyle get tired :)

Not to mention the fact that an all ireland team for the celtic cup would be pointless to either team for preparing for the upcoming qualifiers. From a competitive point of view, Im not sure i see the celtic cup working to be honest.