feckin british again, the ruination of us 800 years and there still at it, we have blamed everyone else.:D
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feckin british again, the ruination of us 800 years and there still at it, we have blamed everyone else.:D
When have we ever discussed cocaine?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I don't know many people who have admitted to me that they've tried or been offered anything harder than cannabis, but it's not a topic I bring up very often.
I tried google, and got a 2005 report which began with the line:Quote:
That's what happens in Switzerland; anyone got comparison drug rates between the two?
"[SIZE=-1]Switzerland, together with England and Spain, has the highest rate of alcohol and drug use among people under twenty in Europe."
Which kind of suggests that their method isn't any better than the alternative.
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Just now for one. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
I'm just trying to get some perspective on the issue is all, as opposed to un-backed-up comments that 90% of pubs have cocaine in them or cocaine use is as common as Sunday lunch.
And the joys too of course. Just like people who eat too much, drink too much, smoke, and, relatedly, people who genuflect at the altar of consumerism; reaching out for more, more, more, untroubled by potential ramifications in the future, and generally unappreciative of a skewed paradigm focused more on earnestly grasping for 'needs' and wants, rather than building on what we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulrock
I've said it before, and, because I was pretty proud of my philosophical perceptiveness (:p), I'll say it again;
So I suppose my point is that, for one thing, drugs are just another predictable and unavoidable limb in the type of consumerist society we inhabit, with mis-aligned mindsets that serve to exacerbate drug usage. Secondly, Ireland has a ridiculously alcohol-centric social setting. This is a problem as it creates the perception that alcohol is a safe drug and that there's nothing really wrong with losing control of oneself. It is also a problem as the pub is seen as an adequate substitute for youth clubs, skateboard parks, other indoor sports facilities etc. All in all, a way of living that will inevitably induce too much drug taking.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdom hoop
That is how I'd characterise the issue. Unfortunately, however, it's a way of explaining the problem that doesn't lead to an easy solution. But I think looking at the causes is the only way to progress the issue. Singling out individuals, as Noely does above, as the only way to stop drug taking misses the boat completely in my view. As long as we (Ireland) have the type of values we do then I think it must be accepted that drugs will be inherent and widespread.
Before going any further, it's important to know what people want to see happen, what is the ideal, and what the problems of drug-taking are, as otherwise talking about potential measures seems a bit vague to my mind. Is the gangland problem so big that legalisation is a must? Are drugs plain evil and must be stamped out? The potential health problems are huge so something must be done, etc etc. In my view, drugs should be allowed to some degree (apparently they can be fun, not that we'll get many stories here it would seem:D) but that 'safe' and moderate consumption is critical. I've had enough typing for one post now though. Could do with a line to perk me up a little maybe. :p
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-1242154.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
there you are Stu, hope that makes you hate a little less :rolleyes: I will not bother defining mainstream think most know what I was referring to.
I don't know about leafy suburbs and all that. Coke's not as high class as it used to be. I hate "classing" people but all the people I know that have done cocaine have been working class. That's not to say my middle or upper class friends don't do it but the people I know who do are all working class.
In Jim Doyle's and The Tube in Bray, I've seen people doing cocaine, I've seen the stuff on the toilet seats and on people's noses. I don't think these people have ever been thrown out or anything so maybe that's a cause of the problem. No action being taken at the entry.
Thank you; very interesting. My counter point on that still stands though - doesn't indicate whether it was one person or lots of people doing the drug.Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulrock
"I will not bother..." translates as "I can't back it up" in internet-speak, unfortunately.
nope it translates as cant be bothered. You know what I mean as well lets proceed onwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It was all over the news today that 92% of club and bar bathrooms tested positive for having traces of cocaine on them, so I doubt it's the work of a small minority working there way through 92% of our establishments. Whether or not there is a majority, i.e. 50.000001%, of the population using illegal substances I don't know, but frankly that line of thought is pedantic and is the type of nonsense that sets this debate back constantly
How does the number of people taking coke set the debate back?! Would have said it's a critical factor in working out what you're dealing with.
He's saying that pedantism regarding whether a total of five people used Coke in 92% o pubs surveyed or whether 100,000 used coke in 92% is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
A common sense approach would tell you that "enough" people were using Coke to have traces of it on 92% of pub/clubs loos.
That "enough" is open for debate but as its an illegal activity you won't get too many admitting to it in surveys. I know dozens of people who've tried coke, some of whom are regular users.
Arguing about about what a majority is to prove some generalisation point in the media is setting it back. Yes the media generalise everything, and are prone to throwing out huge figures to scare monger people, we know. Now I suggest you take a trip into town and go to various clubs and bars, go to their bathrooms and see for yourself that there is left over coke in cubicles. 92% may be off, but it's only a bit off so lets move onQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I'll second that. It's nigh-on impossible to lead a half-decent social life in a large Europan city these days without teh spectre of cocaine being around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I have 2 friends who I would describe as 'socially dependent' upon cocaine - i.e. they won't have a night out of any magnitude without coke. I would descrb both as having confidence/insecurity issues though, which goes a large way to explaining it.
I know of countless other peopel who have tried it, but most have the good sense to treat it as something to do extremelty infrequently, or try once and move on once their curiousity is satisfied.
I f there is any phrase in modern political parlance that is more absurd than 'the war on terror' it's the war on drugs. Complete and utter nonesense that achieves nothign other than the presence of armed organised criminal gangs in every town and city of note in the Western world.
How would this in any way provide a solution to drug usage ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus
Surely the only intelectually supportable solution is to accept that drugs will exist, to bring them under state control, tax them heavily, use the funds raised to provide support structuresd to wean addicts off of it, and aim top slowly reduce usage throughout society - largely by removing a lot of the 'glam' behind drugs.
Two key supporters for this. Firstly - one of the largest contributors to crime in Western societies (particularly opportunistic and violent theft) is ether drug addiction or drug supply. Why do you think there are so many guns and gangs in Dublin, Limerick etc ? Keeping drugs illegal merely puts armed gangs onto the streets, as the profits are so huge that they want to protect them, and keeps addits in a life of crime to feed their habit. The current policy creates violent crime. This is an undeniable fact.
Secondly, from a health point of view drugs like pure heroin are not medically damaging beyond addiction. The rubbish they sell on the streets however - cut with feck knows what - is what leads to masive health costs in dealing with the medical problems it causes amongst heroin addicts. The sensible answer would therefore be to provide state controlled heroin in a very regimented way to oproven addicts, reducing their supply over time and providing the support required to wean them off the drug. The other alternative is for society to continue suffering the crime sprees they conduct to feed their habit, and face the final ignomony of picking up the health-care tab for them afterwards.
I expect better from Government than some ancient baldy knob head with only one thing to say - "drugs are bad, mokay". How are people that take drugs ever going to take him seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by beautifulrock
As there remains no will to truely to deal with the issue through either legalisation or via some other method such as via prescriptions from doctors, the only way forward is through education on the dangers and if you are going to take drugs how to take them safely. Certainly with better understanding on how drugs work you'd have to think the Waterford deaths could've been avoided.
I'm frequently shocked by the ignorance of the effects of drugs, which are addictive which aren't, how risks can be reduced by people around my age in Ireland. Perhaps it was just late 80's, early 90's Manchester but we had quite good drug education in our youth.
In terms of how to deal with it going forward, I shockingly find myself in agreement with both dcfcsteve and Kevin Myers - a (pan european) legalisation and regulation programme is the only way that the "Drug Crisis" is going to be dealt with to reduce deaths.
A more relevant comparison would surely be the number of drug related deaths?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I'm a normal 30 something bloke in a normal office job, I don't know any rock stars etc.. I was trying to think of how many of my friends have at least tried coke and I can only think of one couple that I know that haven't.
Personally I won't touch the stuff (I'm scared sh!tless of chemical drugs) but almost everyone I know has had a line or 2, some are bit more heavy handed and a night out isn't a night out without a couple of lines others are the once every 6 months type and some have tried it once or twice but it's not really their thing. It's so cheap these days, it's no longer the preserve of the chattering classes.
I'm not condoning it but like everything in life there are risks involved, if people know the risks and still want to try it then that's their own look out, if people are not educated to the risks they are imho more at risk because they are going into the unknown. People will always be attracted drugs be it alcohol, cocaine or cannabis a little bit of sensible education would help.
I was impressed with the prime time thing last night but dissapointed with the Q&A afterwards same old lines , Gardi have to be harder with pushers & users.
The harder the cops get the more people will get hurt or die.
Random searches in clubs on on the way into clubs will just lead to the people that snort a gram over a night to snorting the full gram or 2 before they leave home greatly increasing there chances of Over dosing. Or even just making them mental leaving the house. then mixing in the booze as well.
Coming down harder on criminals will just force them to be more extreme. They would rather shoot a mule than have him rat them out , they would rather shoot someone that owes them money that have them rat them out.
Then there is the quality factor if at the momment some guy said he cuts the coke 5 times before sellling it if its twice as hard for him to get he will cut it ten times to make his money, Remember he doesnt care about the punter just his cash.
Primetime Investigates last nightQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
92% of pub's and clubs tested at random in all corners of the country had traces of cocaine in their bathrooms
Seen some of Primetime last night & wasn't too bad & at least better than the hopeless High Society "documentary" a few weeks back.
People make their decisions & the state can hardly be held accountable when they make bad decisions.
Not sure why the Taoiseach represented at recent funeral related to suspected drug related death.
Anything to divert attention from his government's mismanagement of the country I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
I'm only surprised they didn't push through their pay rises during all of this