Creditors deal

If the creditors accept then fair enough leave them in the First Division. They will have gained a sporting edge on everyone else if the debt was cleared through 7.5%. That's not fair, certainly not worth just 10 points from a mid table team ?

Why should they have a clean slate at the start of next season ?

Clubs like shels and Longford have overspent and will go through the next few seasons paying for it! ... Working off the debts fairly.

I just think in terms of sporting competitions the FAI have the right to punish Cork for making it an unfair playing field.

We'll see what happens. Probably nothing if I know the FAI!!

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Originally Posted by higgins

If the creditors accept then fair enough leave them in the First Division. They will have gained a sporting edge on everyone else if the debt was cleared through 7.5%. That's not fair, certainly not worth just 10 points from a mid table team ?

Why should they have a clean slate at the start of next season ?

Clubs like shels and Longford have overspent and will go through the next few seasons paying for it! ... Working off the debts fairly.

I just think in terms of sporting competitions the FAI have the right to punish Cork for making it an unfair playing field.

We'll see what happens. Probably nothing if I know the FAI!!

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Settle down Higgins, take deep breaths and think happy thoughts, it'll all be over soon :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by higgins

If the creditors accept then fair enough leave them in the First Division. They will have gained a sporting edge on everyone else if the debt was cleared through 7.5%. That's not fair, certainly not worth just 10 points from a mid table team ?

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If they clear the wages, and revenue are happy, nothing should happen (other than any licensing issues)

If Cork's creditors are happy, then thats the matter finished with.

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Why should they have a clean slate at the start of next season ?

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Business doesn't work like that. Their name is now mud with businesses all over Ireland. They will not get credit

And you can shove your righteous "sporting" angle too.

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Originally Posted by A face

Settle down Higgins, take deep breaths and think happy thoughts, it'll all be over soon :rolleyes:

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Don't worry, I'm not worked up about it.
Only worry about one club these days....

Just find some of the reaction to this strange. I also find some of the actions of Cork to be strange considering what they are facing.

One minute you are talking about just wanting a club, the next you're discussing plans for next season and what players should be brought in!! One read of your message board confirms that you're not really too interested at the end of the day. Most posts now are about teams matters, the trouble you are in has taken a back seat which is a shame.

Bit like Shels too, we're still in serious trouble yet our board is full of talk about promotion and team selection. I suppose life moves on...

I do wonder how somebody was able to get control of your club for what seems to be little or nothing ?
I mean just what is the investment valus from Tom ? Seen as he now owns a football club and is offering just 7.5% of the existing debts it would appear that he has bought in at a great time ?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

If Cork's creditors are happy, then thats the matter finished with.

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and Shels creditors ?
If they were happy what should have happened us ?

It's a league with 22 member clubs, you can't simply just say it's a matter for Cork. Sure why dock them the 10 points for examinership if that is the case ??

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Originally Posted by higgins

One minute you are talking about just wanting a club, the next you're discussing plans for next season and what players should be brought in!! One read of your message board confirms that you're not really too interested at the end of the day. Most posts now are about teams matters, the trouble you are in has taken a back seat which is a shame.

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Some posters on our forum are not living in the real world, that thread about players for next season is either a WUM or an idiot.
The realists amongst us are seriously worried and preparing for the First Division.

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Originally Posted by higgins

I do wonder how somebody was able to get control of your club for what seems to be little or nothing ?
I mean just what is the investment valus from Tom ? Seen as he now owns a football club and is offering just 7.5% of the existing debts it would appear that he has bought in at a great time ?

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From Coughlans perspective its probably a case of why pay 100% when you can get away with payng 7.5?
As he hasn't been ratified as the new owner yet and the fact that everyone involved in the Examinership process is bound to confidentiality means that not a whole lot is known about his plans for next season. (if there is to be one)

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Originally Posted by higgins

If the creditors accept then fair enough leave them in the First Division. They will have gained a sporting edge on everyone else if the debt was cleared through 7.5%. That's not fair, certainly not worth just 10 points from a mid table team ?

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I oculdnt care less if were in the premier or first division to be honest. But an agreement between us and the creditors is just that, between us and the creditors. If they accept there is no reason to be kicked out of the league.

Otherwise the entire examinership process was pointless.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

If they clear the wages, and revenue are happy, nothing should happen (other than any licensing issues)

If Cork's creditors are happy, then thats the matter finished with.


Business doesn't work like that. Their name is now mud with businesses all over Ireland. They will not get credit

And you can shove your righteous "sporting" angle too.

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:):ball:


And Higgins: If you think everyone on your forum realised what was going on while you were in trouble you are delusional.

Some people dont have a clue whats going on, some are kids.

To say we dont care is simply stupid. At this minute there is absolutely nothing we can do. The matter is in the hands of the judge

I freely admit that I don't know all the details of either case but would the difference between the Shels and Cork situations be that Shels had a (valuable) asset in Tolka Park which they could sell and use the proceeds to pay off their creditors? Cork (and Rovers previously) effectively have no assets so if their creditors insisted on being repaid all the money owed, the club would be forced to go out of business. Given the choise of x% or 0%, the creditors agreed.

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Originally Posted by Schumi

I freely admit that I don't know all the details of either case but would the difference between the Shels and Cork situations be that Shels had a (valuable) asset in Tolka Park which they could sell and use the proceeds to pay off their creditors? Cork (and Rovers previously) effectively have no assets so if their creditors insisted on being repaid all the money owed, the club would be forced to go out of business. Given the choise of x% or 0%, the creditors agreed.

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Pretty much as far as I can see. Higgins doesnt seem to think the examinership process should have any affect at all.

If shels had gone into examinership ye might have paid less(dunno with Tolka) but it would ahve cost ye teh title.

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Originally Posted by higgins

and Shels creditors ?
If they were happy what should have happened us ?

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You know damn well that there were/are huge differences between Cork adn Shels situation. You were not demoted because you owed money to creditors

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It's a league with 22 member clubs, you can't simply just say it's a matter for Cork. Sure why dock them the 10 points for examinership if that is the case ??

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Please try and make sense. They were docked 10 points for entering examinership. If they successfully come out of examinership, you think they should face further sanctions? Seems pretty stupid to me.

If they face further sanctions for licensing issues, fair enough.

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Originally Posted by micls

If shels had gone into examinership ye might have paid less(dunno with Tolka).

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I really doubt it. The asset was there. The problem was liquidity. Creditors would wait.

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Originally Posted by John83

I really doubt it. The asset was there. The problem was liquidity. Creditors would wait.

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possibly, I dont know how much they Tolka was worth to them at the time. We had no choice but to enter examinership, which as a process is usually going to end up with creditors accepting a portion of the amount or the club going to the wall.

In Higgins scenario we either go to the wall in the court or the FAI kick us out. What would the point of entering examinership ahve been.

We entered because we CANT pay the debts.

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Originally Posted by micls

In Higgins scenario we either go to the wall in the court or the FAI kick us out. What would the point of entering examinership ahve been.

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Higgins is just bitter imo, clearly ignoring basics of the process so he can spew his bile. I dont think he cares what actually happens just as long as its bad.

That's not true A Face...
I want Cork to survive. I'm just interested to see what makes the two cases different?

Seems to me when you get down to it that things are more or less the same.
Tolka is our asset and as such we can't very well go into examinership but from a sporting point of view things are pretty similar.

Shels built up massive debts which they couldn't really afford under Ollie.
Cork built up massive debts which they couldn't really afford under Arkaga.
Shels were left to pick up the pieces after Ollie.
Cork were left to pick up the pieces after Arkaga.
The FAI knew at the time Ollie was going to be no longer involved with Shels.
The FAI know at this time Arkaga is no longer involved with Cork.
Shels owed a few hunderd thousand to revenue and the players.
Cork owe a few hunderd thousand to revenue and the players.

Here's where things are a little different.

Shels will pay all creditors 100% of what they are owed.
Cork will pay all creditors less than 100% of what they are owed.
Shels didn't go into examinership.
Cork did go into examinership.

Our accounts with the FAI would have been all wrong, I'll grant you that. The projections made and figures would have been plucked out of the air by Ollie. I'd imagine given what has happened that Corks figures are also pretty worthless!!

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Originally Posted by higgins

Here's where things are a little different.

Shels will pay all creditors 100% of what they are owed.
Cork will pay all creditors less than 100% of what they are owed.
Shels didn't go into examinership.
Cork did go into examinership.

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And yet this is the part you are ignoring.

Quite simply even after being 'screwed over' you were in a position to pay off your debts, we arent, hence examinership.

Punish us as much as is deemed necessary, relegation starting the first division on - points etc.

But to kick us out all together is just ridiculous.

If we make it through this decision, and theres a srong chance we wont, what good would kicking us out of the league do. Surely relegatione tc would be a strong enough deterent to other clubs.

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Originally Posted by micls

To say we dont care is simply stupid. At this minute there is absolutely nothing we can do. The matter is in the hands of the judge

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I'm trying to work out how much Tom has paid to get his hands on your club ?
Having an owner where you had no control is what got you into this mess... Now you have an owner and no control.

I'm not interested in how much Tom will put in next season.

I was trying to work out why the fans of the club couldn't take over seen as the debts you have are slashed by 92.5% in most cases!!

All I can work out is that Tom has some promise to keep the club full time and that's great news according to your fans ??? I'm lost here trying to work it out. I will accept that reading a message board is pretty much pointless as not everything is explain in public forums. I do know that from the time of the Shels meltdown.

With the money you have made since the examinership process started you wouldn't have added much to those initial debt.

A figure of under 700K was reported in a paper yesterday ?
7.5% to 15% of that go gain control of a football club is nothing!!!

I suppose it will all come out in time so maybe I should just sit and wait for the answers..

This has nothing to do with football Higgins.

The Revenue has a responsibility of balancing the risk of businesses going to the wall versus the moral hazard in accepting such poor deals on outstanding taxes (from a Revenue perspective). Accepting 7.5% sets an expectation that businesses can get away without paying the vast majority of outstanding taxes.

For this reason I was staggered at the deal they accepted with Rovers. The UK revenue would laugh at you for this (and have laughed at Derry and others for proposing much higher amounts in the past).

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Originally Posted by higgins

I'm trying to work out how much Tom has paid to get his hands on your club ?
Having an owner where you had no control is what got you into this mess... Now you have an owner and no control.

I'm not interested in how much Tom will put in next season.

I was trying to work out why the fans of the club couldn't take over seen as the debts you have are slashed by 92.5% in most cases!!

All I can work out is that Tom has some promise to keep the club full time and that's great news according to your fans ??? I'm lost here trying to work it out. I will accept that reading a message board is pretty much pointless as not everything is explain in public forums. I do know that from the time of the Shels meltdown.

With the money you have made since the examinership process started you wouldn't have added much to those initial debt.

A figure of under 700K was reported in a paper yesterday ?
7.5% to 15% of that go gain control of a football club is nothing!!!

I suppose it will all come out in time so maybe I should just sit and wait for the answers..

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Coughlan isnt interested in pumping money into the club. Basically from what I can make out he's willing to come in to help steady the ship, get things in order and make the club a self sustaining entity beofre handing it over to FORAS. Or course this could all be bull but thats what he has proposed.

AFAIK we will have a share in the club(FORAS) We have been helping pay the wages and have money aside to buy shares also.

The high court said our debts were 1.3million afaik.

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Originally Posted by micls

And yet this is the part you are ignoring.

Quite simply even after being 'screwed over' you were in a position to pay off your debts, we arent, hence examinership.

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To be honest I think you could work at paying those debts off over the next X amount of years. I don't see why they should be wiped. Also I've already said if Players and Revenue get 100% that the First Division demotion for avoinding full payment to other creditors would be fair enough.

On the bit you think i'm ignoring,, I'm actually not ignoring that!!!
In fact that is the part where I think Shels come away with more credit that Cork. We ARE paying our debts off... Every week one item or another comes along and we've to pay. We're not operating on what we should be due to these old debts. It's going to be tough for years to come,, still a strong chance we'll go under too if things don't work out.

Again... I don't want Cork to go out of business. I want them to pay the debts in full if possible over time and remain in the Premier Division, that would be my preferred option.

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Originally Posted by higgins

To be honest I think you could work at paying those debts off over the next X amount of years. I don't see why they should be wiped.

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If that was an option we wouldnt have had to go into examinership.....I trust that the examiner knows what he's doing.

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Originally Posted by higgins

Also I've already said if Players and Revenue get 100% that the First Division demotion for avoinding full payment to other creditors would be fair enough.

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Why are players or Revenue more important than other creditors?

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Originally Posted by higgins

On the bit you think i'm ignoring,, I'm actually not ignoring that!!!
In fact that is the part where I think Shels come away with more credit that Cork. We ARE paying our debts off... Every week one item or another comes along and we've to pay. We're not operating on what we should be due to these old debts. It's going to be tough for years to come,, still a strong chance we'll go under too if things don't work out.

Again... I don't want Cork to go out of business. I want them to pay the debts in full if possible over time and remain in the Premier Division, that would be my preferred option.

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Again ignoring the fact that you HAD AN ASSET with which to pay teh debts. We dont. Creditors could make a deal with ye to pay it off over so money years because they knew theyd get the money eventually.

They ahve no such guarantees with us as we have no definite assets or income and therefore wouldnt ahve been happy with teh same. Hence examinership

Do you think Rovers should ahve been kicked out of he league? In what way woudl that ahve benifitted the league.