Creditors deal

**micls** · 06/10/2008, 3:58 PM

Creditors meeting today and they accepted 7.5% plus 50% of sell on clauses e.g. Doyle.

High Court tomorrow

**razor** · 07/10/2008, 8:26 AM

Good piece by John Riordan in Todays Examiner

**pineapple stu** · 07/10/2008, 12:52 PM

Ouch.

What does that mean for the future? I assume the club'll have to operate at break even? Can't imagine the club getting much in the way of credit in the coming months.

**micls** · 07/10/2008, 3:22 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Ouch.

What does that mean for the future? I assume the club'll have to operate at break even? Can't imagine the club getting much in the way of credit in the coming months.

More ouch. Some problems encountered. Start lighting candles lads

**pineapple stu** · 07/10/2008, 3:38 PM

Who's causing the problems?

If the creditors are happy, it must be to do with the people taking over and their plans for the future?

**Mr A** · 07/10/2008, 3:39 PM

It would seem that the Revenue have rejected the deal according to the CCFC forum.

**micls** · 07/10/2008, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Who's causing the problems?

If the creditors are happy, it must be to do with the people taking over and their plans for the future?

Mr A has it in one.

Revenue turned down the deal they were offered(15% + the same sell on thing is the rumour). Up to the judge now

**Longfordian** · 07/10/2008, 3:57 PM

That doesn't sound too promising. The Revenue had their fingers burned with Rovers and have warned clubs not to expect any big favours so I think you're going to have to come up with a much better deal. Having said that CCFC itself doesn't really have any assets that would enable the Revenue to recover their money in receivership so it remains to be seen whether they are determined enough to forego what they're being offered and just punish Cork or are just forcing them into the best deal they can get out of them. Either way you've another battle to get through.

**corkboy360** · 07/10/2008, 4:12 PM

Anyone know what happened with the court case today?????

**pineapple stu** · 07/10/2008, 4:15 PM

Have a wild guess.

**higgins** · 07/10/2008, 4:21 PM

How much do you owe revenue ?

I'd imagine the fact you continue to trade and build up a debt with them is not helping either ? I couldn't see why you made every effort to keep the players over the last few months. I still can't.

To be honest you should have to pay the tax and players back wages 100%
Then if you pay the rest of the creditors less than 100% you should be kicked out of the league.

I'm not being smart here but the rules should apply fairly to all clubs.

What is it you owe revenue ?

**micls** · 07/10/2008, 4:46 PM

Originally Posted by corkboy360

Anyone know what happened with the court case today?????

Not heard today. backlog of cases

Originally Posted by higgins

How much do you owe revenue ?

Dunno

Originally Posted by higgins

To be honest you should have to pay the tax and players back wages 100%
Then if you pay the rest of the creditors less than 100% you should be kicked out of the league.

We are a business. A business is within its rights to do deals with creditors if the creditors agree.

Relegate us fair enough but thrown out of the league. Come off it.

Originally Posted by higgins

I'm not being smart here but the rules should apply fairly to all clubs..

You mean the same way Rovers were thrown out of the league.....

there are rules in place. If we break them we will be punished accordingly e.g. going into examinership, wage cap etc.

Points deduction or relegation is fair enough but kicking us out altogether is just ridiculous

**A face** · 07/10/2008, 5:01 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

I'm not being smart here but the rules should apply fairly to all clubs.

Higgins .... you're a Shels fan yeah?

**pete** · 07/10/2008, 5:09 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

To be honest you should have to pay the tax and players back wages 100%. Then if you pay the rest of the creditors less than 100% you should be kicked out of the league.

I can only assume the players are being paid more than the other creditors if not all their money as they would be ahead of the Revenue. Calls to kick us out of the league would set an unsustainable precedent as could be less than 15 clubs left.

I am disappointed with the 15% offer to the Revenue as would have been amazed if they accepted. I don't know if 50% of sell on clauses was offered but again would be very surprised if the Revenue had any interest in a stake in what essentially is our only "asset".

**John83** · 07/10/2008, 5:17 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

How much do you owe revenue ?

I read somewhere today that it's about �360,000. I can't vouch for that figure.

**higgins** · 07/10/2008, 6:01 PM

Shels were given a time and a date to pay the tax debt in full or else the hearing into us even getting a First Division licence would not have happened.
We also had to come up with that couple of hundred thousand in the space of a couple of weeks (if even) and that was only so the licence committee would review the case for a First Division licence.

As we know now after the tax was paid we still only got a First Division licence by the smallest of margins.

Those rules not apply to Cork ?...

**Longfordian** · 07/10/2008, 6:06 PM

I'd imagine you were given a deadline to get a tax clearance cert, not necessarily have all the debt paid?. That's the usual procedure. It would depend on the Revenue's attitude to issuing one i.e they may have said they wouldn't give one without full payment which is slightly different than the FAI demanding full payment.

**higgins** · 07/10/2008, 6:10 PM

Originally Posted by micls

We are a business. A business is within its rights to do deals with creditors if the creditors agree.

Relegate us fair enough but thrown out of the league. Come off it.

Well I was talking about the Premier Division sorry should have made that clear. However that was only on the basis you pay the tax and players 100% of what they are owed.

On the rest of the creditors it's very well saying you're a business and so on but the facts are you are playing in a competition run by the FAI. 21 others clubs are also signed up and one member not paying their debts in full has a bad knock on to other clubs. It's not like you're a corner shop trying to stay alive. You are involved in sporting competitions with other member clubs who also need to survive in business.

Certain actions can not go unpunished.

The way I see it...

A) you fail to pay the tax man 100% . You should be kicked out of the league
B) you fail to pay staff/players 100% . You should be kicked out of the league
C) you fail to pay other crediotors 100% . You should be demoted at least

However, I think if you can come to some agreements where you pay these debts off over time (100%) you should be allowed continue as you are in the premier division with only the 10 points taken away already for entering the examinership process.

**higgins** · 07/10/2008, 6:15 PM

Originally Posted by Longfordian

I'd imagine you were given a deadline to get a tax clearance cert, not necessarily have all the debt paid?. That's the usual procedure. It would depend on the Revenue's attitude to issuing one i.e they may have said they wouldn't give one without full payment which is slightly different than the FAI demanding full payment.

It amounts to the same thing really. I suppose it was to do with a TCC but facts were we had to pay a few hundred thousand like Cork. We had a deadline or else we had no team.

No 15% or 7.5% or anything like that.

Cork have already had a winding up order against them from revenue. I don't think they would mind too much doing that again. They didn't seem to care you had no assets the last time they tried to get their money ?

Paying less than 100% of your debts is a kick in the nuts to everyone else in this league that have to pay their bills.

**Longfordian** · 07/10/2008, 6:23 PM

Originally Posted by higgins

It amounts to the same thing really. I suppose it was to do with a TCC but facts were we had to pay a few hundred thousand like Cork. We had a deadline or else we had no team.

No 15% or 7.5% or anything like that.

As have a lot of clubs to be fair, including ourselves, coming up to licensing decision day. I'm kind of ambivalent about the 100% of the debt thing, I mean sometimes you can do a deal with a creditor whereby you can give him sponsorship or something in lieu of money. I do think 7.5% is way too low though definitely.