Nearly killed (as Sir Alex might say) Mart Poom in doing so, who had to nit pick himself out of the net. Iirc.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
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Nearly killed (as Sir Alex might say) Mart Poom in doing so, who had to nit pick himself out of the net. Iirc.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLorean
I don't think the sendings off above had anything to do with tactics. The goal in Macedonia didn't have to do with them either. They gave Robbie a chance, and Robbie being the finisher he is, took it. That's why he is the first name on the team sheet when he's available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
I don't know how many points we'll get, and can't forecast them either. We needed two points in March to stay in the race, we got them. It was a struggle at times, but it ultimately worked. That's what separates Trap from other coaches down the years. When we struggled before, we failed. When we struggle under him, we usually get through and get the job done.
That's not really true, they have two Iranian based players and three Kazakh based players. In fact the Armenians have as many Russian Premier League based players. Movsisyan was a €7.5m signing for Spartak Moscow last winter and scored 4 in 8 before his injury. Ozbiliz signed just this summer for Spartak for €10m, previously he had played for Kuban and before that he was at Ajax and actually scored for them in the Europa league against Man Utd. Manucharyan had spells with Ajax where he played UEFA Cup matches, and now plays in the Russian PL for Ural. Pizzelli, the Brazilian import, has played for top flight Ukrainian and Russian clubs, and Berezovsky the keeper has been playing in the Russian PL for the last decade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
As a team they have had some very good results in competitive games over the last few years, winning 4-0 in Denmark 3 months ago, drawing at home to Russia and beating Slovakia twice (3-1 home 4-0 away). I agree that Estonia are perhaps no great shakes, but I wouldn't be so dismissive of the win we got in Yerevan, it was played in extreme heat and with players who hadnt started the season so to speak (it was 3rd Sept).
Or we concede the highest number of goals ever in the European Championship FinalsQuote:
Originally Posted by mypost
That aspect is a little harsh given the opposition. But patently we were the worst team there and his continual failure to pick the best potential team doesn't augur well.
Notice that even mp has considerably toned down his expectations...
Serious question: while I expect Trap has the best away record of any Irish manager, does any manager of the modern era have a worse home record?
We regularly get beaten in friendlies, and in competitive matches we have only beaten Cyprus, Georgia, Andorra, Macedonia, Faroes and Armenia. We have lost to France, Russia, Germany and Sweden, and drawn with Bulgaria, Montenegro, Italy, Slovakia, Estonia and Austria.
Speaking of records. If we lose to Austria it looks like we could be on to surpass our lowest FIFA ranking and end up around 59th. Good times.
At this stage it's probably good for all concerned that Trap finishes up. I think it's no harm in having a new face in who isn't so inflexible with regards players and tactics. Who that man is I'm not sure,but the defeatist attitude going into games against higher ranked teams is enough to make a change for me. We're never going to be a team of world beaters but the consistent negativity before a ball is kicked from the management needs to be removed.
It's because Trapp's just too stubborn.
That Trap might actually play for a draw tomorrow night just to secure a rankings place fills me with glumness that it has gotten to such a point.
Considering it seems to be the last days of disco with this management team, are there any tributes for Trap's second in command Marco Tardelli? In his universe "the man who would be king" of course:rolleyes:
Marco appears to be as convinced as Trap that an outmoded system is our best approach and getting us somewhere right now (unless his defence of our tactics is simply an effort to keep the main man happy). Unfortunately, the system is getting us nowhere. A loss in Austria on Tuesday will see us slip to our lowest FIFA ranking ever. If he took over from Trap, isn't it more than likely then that we'd see a continuation of the same?
Maybe. But more important point is in the longer-term we don't seem to have any decent players coming through.
Whilst we all bemoan the FAI and their paltry efforts, other important factor is that these things often go in cycles too and we seem to be entering a downwards curve too.
Apologies for the source...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...up-chance.html
England don't have any decent players coming through either.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Forget the Sky TV hype, foreign players are being brought by clubs in all the English leagues.
Most aren't any better than the English, Irish lads.
The days when a top club brought a young player from the lower leagues are few and far between.
Young players aren't getting the chance to prove there good enough to step up.
I wonder if the likes of Keegan, Brady etc would of progressed to bigger and better things in today's football.
England always talk ****e about developing young players, Lilleshall didn't work same as this new academy at Burton won't either as players won't get opportunities to play and develop at first team level for top clubs.
Here in Ireland we have cut back on spending in youth development at football.
It's led to some of our coaches taking up jobs in England.
We can talk all we like but nothing will change unless the Football Association limit overseas players who are no better than what we have, flooding into clubs.
Most sitting on the bench.
People on here come up with 10 year plans, but that's pointless when your FA reduce funding midway through the process.
I agree with the doc, the FA need to limit the number of foreigners at clubs in England. Their priority should be to develop players for the national team and they can't do that when Premier League sides are packed with players from Spain, France and Ireland.
Yes, the EU will of course agree...
AFAIK it's okay to limit the number of non-English players in a matchday squad, as you can still employ as many non-English as you want. Open to correction on that one though.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
I think UEFA has categorised players as "homegrown" or not, i.e., did the player spend 3 or so years at the club's academy or underage set-up, regardless of where he's from. There must be a minimum number of homegrown players in the squad. This gets around the EU rules on discriminating by nationality.
In sport, he EU has sometimes allowed anything that is in breach of labour & competition rules if (a) the "breach" is justified and (b) if the breach is a proportionate restriction, i.e., it only goes as far as is necessary toachieve the required objective. So, in the famous Bosman case the ECJ ruled that although it felt that the then transfer rules were justifiable, it was felt that restricting an oput of contract player's movement wasn't proportionate, so they ruled in favour of Bosman.
Now, bear in mind that the EU is sympatetic to the so-called European Model of Sport (I have previously posted official links to EU documents discussing this concept). In a nutshell this "model" embraces the european way of doing things rather than the US. So, the EU appreciates that promotion & relegation / open leagues, pyramidal structures, national leagues but international representative competitions is the most common way of organising team sport in Europe. Therefore I think a good argument could be made to go back to the EU, citing the state of the EPL as an example and how Bosman has changed everything - not for the better and not in keeping with the "European model" - and argue that re-introducing some degree of nationality quotas might be justifiable and also a proportionate response.
Just a thought.
I keep hearing how the Premiership has destroyed the English national team, but they have very poor memories - they were god awful at Euro 92 (the one that got away from us) and they didn't even make World Cup 94. Those tournaments were at the time when the premiership were in its early days and teams were packed with mostly English players.
Yes, Liverpool in the 70's/80's had some fabulous teams, but most of their best players were Scottish, with the Irish or Welsh or Australians or Danes playing a big role in success as well. The same was through of United, Leeds, Forest, Derby etc with the best players often being Scottish or other nationalites. England were truly rubbish in the 70's, while in the 80's they had no idea how to really play some of their technically wonderful players like Hoddle, Waddle, Beardsley and Barnes.
The English are right to aspire to be better, as we should, but the fact is that if a player is good enough he will normally make it. I am sure that there have been some very good young players that have not broken through like the Keegans or Bradys of yesteryear, because their paths were stopped by a Bergkamp or a Zola, but I don't believe it's on the scale the FA would state.
Too many youngsters in Britain (and Ireland) don't have the drive to succeed that the continentals or South Americans do. Societal factors (poor diet, drugs, alcohol and parents unwilling to allow their children play on the streets like they would have in the past doesn't help).
Exactly right on England. It's cyclical for them, they qualify and get to the quarters at a bunch of tournaments and then fail to qualify. The 70s and 80s were no different. They failed to qualify for the 74 and 78 World Cups, did okay in 82, quarters in 86. They didn't get to Euro 84 and lost all their games at Euro 88. I've seen nothing to indicate that the influx of foreigners has led to a deteriorartion of their national team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
Didn't Dunphy once say that you need poverty and dictators to produce good footballers?
I think a lot of that is true but regardless of England's history, after many decades of neglect the penny has dropped that technical development is very important. The problem now is that the FA is relatively powerless to implement any coherent strategy because of the clout of the EPL. However it is still within the FA's control to make sure the number of highly qualified coaches throughout the land is increased to leading international standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
It's nonsense. In Europe, it's quite normal for the best players to come from middle class or even wealthy backgrounds. Oliver Bierhoff was the son of a millionaire and Gianluca Vialli grew up in a castle.Quote:
Originally Posted by barney
For what it's worth, sporting exceptions can be granted in EU labour law: http://www.pravst.hr/dokumenti/zborn...201204_697.pdfQuote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Okay so the source is from a couple of years ago but I doubt the numbers have changed massively since then ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...10/8688093.stm). This has got to be a major factor.........Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
UEFA A & PRO COACHES
SPAIN -------------------- 14,860
GERMANY ---------------- 6,570
FRANCE ------------------- 2,588
ITALY ----------------------- 1,810
NETH'NDS ----------------- 1,137
ENGLAND ----------------- 1,010
Or even these ratio's of UEFA qualified coaches to active players
Spain 1:17
Italy 1:48
France 1:96
Germany 1:150
Greece 1:135
England 1:812
http://www.soccerbythenumbers.com/20...qualified.html
What does the Irish comparison look like?
Ireland has 141 A and PRO coaches according to this: http://www.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/...6_DOWNLOAD.pdf
9% of Irish adults play football (including 5 a side) according to this: http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Res...Figures_2008_/ (2008 figure)
Using this I'd estimate there's 73% of a population of 4.7 million count as adults giving roughly 308000 adult participants. That seems high, but as kids aren't in there let's go with it.
That gives a ratio of just under 2200 : 1
Scary stuff. To have the same ratio as England we'd have to reduce the playing population to 114492- so clearly even if my numbers are off above then we're a still a long way behind.
Edit: I found a figure of "over 180000" for participation here: http://www.ndc.ie/news/school-programme-launched.asp this gives a ratio of 1276:1. I get the impression this didn't include five a sides. "Today, over 180 000 people play football in Irish football clubs and schools"
I good friend of mines son was involved with the under age Irish emerging talent squad a few years back (Traps 1st year) the kid passed the ball along the ground, between 2 defenders his left winger crossed they scored, his emerging talent coach told him off, later he chipped the ball over the backs head for his right winger who crossed the ball they scored again, got told off again (it's not what they are looking for stop doing those Hollywood passes) later he passes straight through the 2 center halves, the striker scores, crowd clap, couch eats the head of him and plays him at left back for the rest of the match, my friend was furious he asked the couch what was going on, his son was a very creative midfielder who set up 3 goals what more do you guys want, couches reply was,
THIS IS COMING FROM THE VERY TOP, IT'S NOT WHAT THIER LOOKING FOR, IF THERE IS NOTHING ON, PASS IT BACKWARDS DON'T TRY THOSE HOLLYWOOD PASSES, (looks/sounds very familiar just like the Irish team)
needless to say the kid never played for any Irish team, and has like so many others got so dis heartened he gave up football, this is why Trap has no players coming through the Irish under age set up, it is only when players have gone elsewhere, or come from Scotland and Northern Ireland that we get any creative players,
it's true what they say you reap what you sow
Maybe the IFA would have benefited from accepting that FIFA eligibility compromise after all!
I see they have 209 coaches to our 141. Considering our player higher numbers they are a long way ahead.
Yeah but we have our own fleg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
confirmed, Trapattoni has stepped aside by "mutual consent"
Indeed. Delaney on Newstalk with Pat Kenny now
dont doubt you tets but got a link?
http://www.newstalk.ie/player/ JD still on now......
FAI haven't issued a statement yet, but it's being reported by pretty much everyone on twitter, RTE, independent, FourFourTwo, various journalists, etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Junior
only thing that comes close to a report is the live feed on bbc's website: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/24044572
The ominous sign was not putting Trap through the press conference wringer this morning.
Just goes to show that the story last year, after the away game to the Faroes, of Trap having to leave early to visit his sickly sister, was dubious in the extreme.
unfair. i dont think anyone would use a relatives sickness in such a way even if they did need an excuse, which trap didnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
???Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Trap didn't, the FAI did, they are his boss, they told him go home while we talk about your contract.