Trap Out and/or Delaney Out

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

What do you mean get found out?
In the game v Man City, Everton were hardly "lucky" to have won. Same goes for most of the season.
Moyes is a good coach and I sincerely doubt he'd be "found out" if he went to Arsenal or Man Utd.

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I mean he won't get the results that those teams expect. I could be wrong and I'll hold my hands up if I am because, as I say, I like Moyes and think he's done a great job at Everton.

I heard a stat a while back that I haven't Googled to see if it's right but that wouldn't surprise me if true. It is that in 48 away league games against Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, Moyes has won none. Could be false, but sounds like it could be accurate because I can't think off hand where he has won one. Once he gets to that level, his style of football is too direct to get results in my view.

I'd love to be proved wrong though if he does get a big job.

But then again, look at their gutless performances at home to Wigan and away to Leeds when they got knocked out of the two domestic cups.

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Originally Posted by barney

I mean he won't get the results that those teams expect. I could be wrong and I'll hold my hands up if I am because, as I say, I like Moyes and think he's done a great job at Everton.

I heard a stat a while back that I haven't Googled to see if it's right but that wouldn't surprise me if true. It is that in 48 away league games against Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool, Moyes has won none. Could be false, but sounds like it could be accurate because I can't think off hand where he has won one. Once he gets to that level, his style of football is too direct to get results in my view.

I'd love to be proved wrong though if he does get a big job.

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Sorry. Just re-read my post post and it sounds snotty. I actually just didn't understand your point.

Makes sense now.

That stat is correct as far as I recall.

This is a great read.

http://www.barriesview.com/2013/03/d...ics-at-everton

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

This is a great read.

http://www.barriesview.com/2013/03/d...ics-at-everton

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Practically pornographic if your name is Tets.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Or someone who's eaten a lot of Bundys?

http://getnloose.com/wp-content/uplo...1/patdolan.jpg

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I knew he was a big man from seeing him on RTE's coverage of League of Ireland games, but he passed me outside the Aviva before the Austria game, and if anything the camera takes pounds off him. He's built like a warehouse!

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

This is a great read.

http://www.barriesview.com/2013/03/d...ics-at-everton

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Sorry but I can't place all that much faith in an article that relies solely on statistics to say whether or not Moyes has done a good job. It doesn't (and probably can't) place sufficient weight on the state of the club over the last ten years. When you factor in the shambles that was Everton through Moyes' reign to where it is today, then his record is far more impressive than the simple story the stats tell. Also, this myth perpetuates that Everton play an ugly game, they are actually a lovely team to watch most of the time but are able to mix it up as needed.

He is not the perfect manager but he has worked miracles on a shoestring while numerous other clubs spent beyond their means and suffered relegation. I don't see him as a top 4 club manager though. Different set of expectations that he will never have encountered before. I think (and hope) he should stay with the toffees.

Moyes is one of the people mentioned in the same breath as Mourinho when discussing successors to Alex Ferguson. I really doubt international management is in his future.

It looks like O'Neill and McDermott are both in the running for the Leeds job... talking of that job we can now add Neil Colin Warnock to the list of recently unemployed managers who might fancy the gig.

I think Moyes has shown an ability to adapt to his environment and changing circumstances. I feel he would be able for a top 4 club, if he was given enough time to adapt to the task.

Martin O'neill is still very animated on the touchline, someone mentioned to me that the game has passed him by, I think he definitely missed his sidekick this time around, someone to think rationally and spot/advise of the changes during a game. I think you can see why he isn't very good at squad rotation, he is too involved in the moment. I still think he is a great man manager and motivator though - two qualities ideal for international management. I think he would still make a great international manager where he has to motivate teams for about 6/7 proper games a year, where only he has to motivate for a "cup run" type task as he did so well with Celtic and Leicester in years gone by.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

It looks like O'Neill and McDermott are both in the running for the Leeds job... talking of that job we can now add Neil Colin Warnock to the list of recently unemployed managers who might fancy the gig.

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i dont think o'neill would want to take on the Leeds job right now. I wonder would he even be thinking about possibly taking over after Trap leaves?? or maybe that wouldnt interest him either. I cant see where he will get another PL job as such. Villa and sunderland are out and most clubs now are looking to younger managers with passing games like martinez or pottichino at southampton. o'neill's type of manager is out of fashion these days. yes he would get a job somewhere but would he want to drop to the weekly grind of the championship?

Here you go...
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/200153.html#

Interesting perspective here:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...rs-227115.html

KIERAN SHANNON: Managers’ words can either arm or wound players

Tuesday, April 02, 2013

By Kieran Shannon
Though we hadn’t enjoyed watching an Irish soccer team so much since 2002, rarely was it more frustrating watching their manager stumble and stutter on than the last couple of weeks.

Enough has been written about Giovanni Trapattoni’s tactical conservatism that cost us a rare home win against fellow mid-tier European opposition: the non-introduction of Wes Hoolohan and the non-substitution of Conor Sammon, the substitution of Shane Long and the introduction of Paul Green.

What alarmed us most was a recent Kevin Kilbane revelation that during his time playing under the Italian, Trap hardly ever spoke at half-time.

I’ve been in dressing rooms all around the country in my other capacity as a performance psychology consultant and one issue that teams and managers constantly review is how effectively they use half-time.

What individual players need is some quiet instruction? Do you keep calm if they’re not playing that well or do they need a jolt of righteous anger? Are you offering them just noise and not enough information?

It doesn’t matter the grade or the sport: Junior B GAA teams or sides that have played All-Ireland finals in September, they nearly all look to make optimum use of that pivotal window.

It is frightening to think so that our national team, with a manager being paid such a massive salary doesn’t engage in the kind of humbling, practical reflective practice that coaches at even grassroots level in any sport would. The more the Trapattoni era was meant to go on, the less a problem the language barrier was supposed to be. The opposite has proven the case.

Even for coaches speaking in their primary language, language is always an issue. The best coaches are hugely conscious of the language they use interacting with their players, knowing words are weapons and that they can either arm or wound a player.

For the last few weeks America has been gripped by March Madness, the NCAA college basketball tournament which concludes next weekend with the Final Four in Atlanta. An increasing number of Irish people have also been following the tournament, now with the availability of ESPN on our Sky boxes.
During the multiple ads any viewer of American sport is invariably subjected to, the channel regularly recalls glorious moments in NCAA history with brief interviews involving the chief actors of the drama. Particularly high on the rotation is a moment from 21 years ago this week when Christian Laettner hit a game-winning shot on the buzzer against Kentucky to send Duke University to the Final Four. Though Laettner was the man who took the shot, Coach Mike Krzyzewski, the man all of America knows simply as Coach K, was just as much a hero. With 2.1 seconds to go his team were down a point and had to inbound the ball from under their own basket. It seemed impossible that they would score. But as Laettner would recall, Coach K in his timeout huddle broke it down into pieces.

First he turned to Grant Hill, the team’s other star player. “Grant, can you throw the ball to here (the opposite free-throw line)?” Hill nodded. Yes.

Then Krzyzewski turned to Laettner. “And Christian, can you catch it?”

Laettner nodded too. Yes, he could. “Well, then,” said his coach, “if we do that, we have a real shot at winning here.”

All of America knows what happened next. If you don’t, just watch it here. (http:// www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo3G2MfOYeA)

Reflecting on it many years later, Coach K would say that the key to his timeout huddle was using the word “can”. All of a sudden it didn’t sound like an order to his players. It didn’t seem impossible. The optional was suddenly very possible. Yes, they could.

All the best managers create visions for their players with carefully-crafted language. Though Jim McGuinness mightn’t want you reading it, the book This Is Our Year is a testament to his mastery of language. Before Donegal’s landmark 2011 All Ireland semi-final against Dublin, he didn’t tell his players that they “had” to get men behind the ball and “if” they would, Dublin “could” struggle. He told them “when” they got men behind the ball, Dublin “would” struggle.

“They’ll start kicking crazy wides, the Brogans are going to shoot from anywhere. They’re going to get frustrated and they won’t be able to understand why they can’t break you down.”

Soccer is one sport where for awhile you can get away with not even speaking the same language as the players: nearly every club dressing room at the top level is multi-national.

If a foreign coach brings tactical knowledge and structure as Trap did, then on the training ground and the tactical board and the scoreboard, gains can be made and seen.

But, to keep making gains over the years, such subtleties and basics as the language you use count. Trap has been unable – and unwilling – to provide that. Which is another reason why, at the end of this campaign, he’ll have everyone telling him a word everyone will clearly understand. Ciao.

Leeds job is available.

O'Neill & Coyle both mooted as candidates.

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Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter

Moyes is one of the people mentioned in the same breath as Mourinho when discussing successors to Alex Ferguson. I really doubt international management is in his future.

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It's opium induced fantasy to be mentioning Moyes in connection with the Ireland job. He's probably looking at around 15 more good years at club management, earning the big bucks.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I knew he was a big man from seeing him on RTE's coverage of League of Ireland games, but he passed me outside the Aviva before the Austria game, and if anything the camera takes pounds off him. He's built like a warehouse!

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You have no idea. I thought he would break the bench at Finn Park on a few occasions.

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Originally Posted by geysir

It's opium induced fantasy to be mentioning Moyes in connection with the Ireland job. He's probably looking at around 15 more good years at club management, earning the big bucks.

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I originally brought his name up but it was in relation to Martin O'Neill, not the Irish job. No way that Moyes will take an international job in the forseeable future.

I like O'Neill and I think in the past he has shown that he has been a good manager. I would agree with Paul that he could be ideal in many ways for international management where it is more like a cup run with fewer games and he can create a good team spirit. it is also a positive that he knows the Irish players well and I do think he would carry a bit of respect, even if he has just been sacked by Sunderland.

I think tactically he might be limited though and if we are hoping that Ireland at least tries to play good football, we can probably forget about it under Martin. I'd also have concerns that he isn't exactly going to be the most experimental manager out there and I can't see him giving out too many new caps. One thing I loved about Mick was that early in his career with us, he tried to play good football and he wasn't afraid to blood new lads.

Having said that, MON would have to be a strong candidate when Trap leaves.

What about Steve Coppell?

Yes, Coppell would have been a popular choice a few years ago. Where is he now - Crawley or somewhere like that? I think his commitment is questionable. He's walked in the past when things weren't going for him.

Yesterday's Indo had an interview with Ray Treacy saying that Mick McCarthy was the ideal candidate and that he should take Keane as his deputy to groom him for the future. I nearly choked at the prospect of those two working together until I realised he was talking about Robbie, not Roy!

I wouldn't be convinced by Robbie's potential for management myself, though I don't really know. The broader point about grooming retired pros is valid though. I could easily see the likes of Cunningham or Kilbane, both bright, articulate and leaders, stepping into the breach at some point and we should probably do more to utilise them.

Anyway, let's just assume that the candidates are the likes of McCarthy, O'Neill, Coyle, Roy Keane and McDermott. Maybe Noel King as an "internal candidate" or someone like Lagerback from abroad. None completely convinces me, yet all have something going for them. The key thing is that any candidate is a gamble of some sorts. Many a successful managerial appointment has been lucky rather than down to carefully judged consideration. I doubt any of the above would not offer an improvement on communication (internal & external) and man management and other things being equal, that'd already be an improvement. OK, maybe not Keane for man management!

Personally I think our best XI when everyone is fit and available is relatively clear-cut (at least 7 or 8 out of 11) with any serious debates being relatively marginal.

What wasn't even remotely marginal is thinking that Sammon should be thrown into a game like Austria as one of our best forwards. Trap's selection and response to Austrian pressure in the second half were hard to fathom, as have many of his previous decisions. This is the point that Hogan and others are missing. We know we're not a top-tier country, we are impressed by the away record, we know we don't have a glittering past or a tradition of pretty football and we know that individual errors cost us last week. But considered opinion is that Trap is just doing odd things, picking odd players, falling out with players, picking square pegs for round holes, ignoring strong claims from in-form players and rigidly attached to a formation we often struggle with.