The Home Farm experiment was tried but ultimately failed. I cant see them coming back into the LOI.Quote:
Originally Posted by pateen
Printable View
The Home Farm experiment was tried but ultimately failed. I cant see them coming back into the LOI.Quote:
Originally Posted by pateen
Still going. Nice set up for a junior club in BaldonnelQuote:
Originally Posted by pateen
They've a great tradition in schoolboy football but they had nothing to do with the LOI side for the last few years of its life...Quote:
To be fair Home farm have a great tradition and would be a welcome addition to the league IMO.
...which led to the LOI side dying, and Dublin City taking its placeQuote:
To answer your question above Adamd164, yeah Dublin City we're 'born' out of Home Farm
I don't think another Dublin side is going to add anything massive to the league, but it wouldn't hurt it either, and it's not like we've got a surplus of teams in the league at the moment.
Does anyone know of a single person who stopped regularly attending Dalymount or Tolka because Sporting Fingal, Dublin City, or Home Farm Kidderminster Harriers sprang up?
Home Farm gave alot of players a break into senior football and it would be great to see schoolboy clubs develop senior sides, but it just isn't practical. I wonder would the FAI ever amalgamate the different amateur (senior) leagues into 1 large body and work from this. It'd be like getting sheep to agree to move to Sligo, but it would be a great step to creating a ladder for clubs to climb.
Genuinely, I know a guy who used to go to both Dalymount and Tolka (and before that Whitehall too) and started to go to Fingal games regularly.
But the point really ins't about pilching fans IMO. Its about the limited pool of sponsors/resources available in Dublin. Its a lot easier, for example, for Rovers to work with SDCC as they're the only club in their area. DCC have to work with Pats, Bohs and Shels (Even DLR CC sponsor UCD). Then you have those 5 clubs hitting the same/similar sponsors. OK so SEAT or Nissan mightn't be interested in small sposnorship but so many of match/player sponsors are local. Absolutely having a team beside Tolka would hinder Shels/Bohs.
The other argument against Dublin expansion is that St James Gate, St Francis, Dubliln City and Sporting Fingal have all shown that their isn't really the appetite for another club in Dublin. All entered, all have failed to attact more than a handful of fans (despite success for some of them). So do you want a club that has a ceiling of a couple of hundred fans in the league with no real way to generate the funds required to have their ground in order? Not for me...
Surely big towns such as Mullingar, Castlebar and Kilkenny could get teams back running. Mullingar used to have two teams in the old reserve leagues. Im still wondering as to why they never went for the A Divison that time. Also to a lesser extent, there is alot of players coming out of Tipperary, can a team not reserrect itself from somewhere in the county?!
As a matter of interest do local authority councils work with teams in other towns? I don't recall Louth CC doing anything for Dundalk FC or Drogheda United.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Good point, I hadn't really considered competition for sponsorship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I'd agree with Dillonman that there are a lot of places out there that could and should have LOI teams, Navan, Kerry, Cobh, Castlebar, Kildare, Portlaoise, Kilkenny, Mullingar, Tullamore, Carlow, Mallow, Nenagh and Ennis all have larger populations than Longford, for example, with no real LOI presence. Some teams from those places have folded for various reasons, but if an average attendance in the low hundreds is all that's needed to sustain an LOI club, I think all of those places should be able to field a team in theory.
Perhaps it would help if the FAI had a fund for encouraging new clubs to join the league, a zero- or low-interest loan available on a one-off basis to any club looking to upgrade its facilities and attract a fanbase in the first few seasons. We've seen countless times that a little investment in marketing and publicity almost always pays off in the end, so why not incentivise that?
Generally, that's the primary role of provincial associations in both GAA and rugby, to assist clubs in improving facilities, drawing down grants to help development and raising standards within their regional remit. For the most part, junior football bailiwicks are too small to provide the level of help you suggest, so that would appear to be a prime role for the Munster, Leinster and Connacht FAs, with further input into such a scheme from Abbotstown if required.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
Mullingar Town made a push for the first but were knocked back for Kildare and Dublin City - and look at how they turned out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillonman
Having said that both Mullingar Town and Mullingar Athletic both gone backwards since then, playing in some god damn awful Midlands league with the likes of Clara and Ballyjamesduff. Gone the heady days when the Town had a team of exotic players from London, doing half decent in the Under 21 league, now we have nothing at all.:mad:
Yeah I remember that alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
What about teams that used to be in the LOI/A Championship
Kilkenny City
Carlow Town
Tralee Dynamos
Castlebar Celtic
Carlow don't have a good enough ground I think. Dynamos were having a meeting to consider an application, don't think anything came of it. Maybe not interested after being rejected last year.
Thurles Town were in the league for a few years, no reason why they should not return. Also I think that Ennis would be an excellent location for a LoI team because of it being close to Shannon Airport it could attract players over from England. A few good ones from across the water added to the overspill from Limerick combined with any good local players would give a strong team. It would be great to see Home Farm back as well, cup winners from 1975 I think where they beat the mighty Shelbourne.
How far is Termonbarry from Knock airport?Quote:
Originally Posted by wonder88
You are grasping at straws here. There is every reason why TT will not return and their last sojourn in the LOI is just that. That experience stung them and I cant see them coming back neither Home Farm or Kilkenny. Tralee or Killarney have shied away as have Westport and Castlebar. Cobh are in absolutely no position right now to make the step up and FC Carlow were knocked back last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by wonder88
So its looking like the madness and pigheaded stubborness of the FAI will see the FD with just 7 teams next season.
Teams will not threaten the future of their Junior wing by splashing out €180,000 just to survive in the 1st Division. Cobh seem to be the FAI's oick of any teams looking to get back in but a lot of knowlegable Posters on here feel they still have a legacy debt that will stop them.
Interesting that posters are suggesting Towns where clubs have failed already and Home Farm are a definite non runner.
Just because a town has had a failed LOI team in the past doesn't mean it could never sustain one. Otherwise Dublin, Cork, Drogheda and Galway would be non-runners
Are you serious? Who do you see ponying up the €19k entrance fee and paying 300k to just participate and some way compete?Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
The rumours of a return to the LOI for Ramblers seem to persist but I'm not sure how the club can come up with the money to run even an all amateur side.Quote:
Originally Posted by gufct
The support for the club is there, it was in the past but there is one major obstacle to that, namely the chairman who caused all the mess is still there. How or why I don't know, but if it happened in a bigger club there would be uproar and it would have had repercussions throughout football in this country. I'll say no more than that.
When we were denied a license in 2009 there was a civil war within the club and I'm certain the FAI wanted us out then because it would have caused embarrassment for some people within the FAI in this country if certain things ever came to light.
Yes, I'm serious. Unless you're suggesting that Dublin, Cork, and Galway are incapable of supporting LOI teams because teams from there have failed in the past. I never said that Mullingar, or Thurles, or Clonmel would definitely have an LOI team within the next two years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Partizan
Where has your figure of €300k come from by the way? Is it from any club in particular?
€180,000 budget to finish last in the 1st division and tahts only paying Players expenses.THe travel bill for Provincal clubs is huge especially as they would be running an u19 team as well.
Shir can't we just start a team ourselves? Foot.ie United? How hard can it be? We'll play out of the Aviva. Or Terryland.
Or Thomond ParkQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Roddy Collins thinks it would be a perfect fit. Quote, "Sure, they're always talking about me"
Have the circumstances that led to those teams failing changed? If not, what reason is there to suggest it could work this time around?Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
I'd be lying if I said I knew the underlying reasons why Kilkenny, Kildare, Carlow, Portlaoise, Tralee and even Monaghan don't have teams in the LOI structure, but that wasn't really my point. Drogheda, Cork, Galway, Cork again, Derry, etc. failed because of gross financial mismanagement. The first assumption in their cases isn't that those towns are fundamentally unsuitable for LOI football, so why should it be the first assumption when we're talking about other population centres of a similar size?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
But that's not people's first assumption. These were small, ambitious clubs that nevertheless found competing in a business environment very tough due to low levels of interest from locals, the presence of more popular sports proving a greater draw for players, sponsors and playing pitches, and a completely unhelpful governing body that made it more difficult for a small club to survive at senior level. Unless any of these realities have changed (keep an eye on this ash fungus epidemic for hurling's future prospects), it's not going to be any easier for these clubs to survive now than before.
Seriously... That's what we would call the team? Really? Nothing else at all comes to mind?Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
:P
Us ground share...No Way!!Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
Unless we actually play out of Termonbarry Park..then no, I can't think of anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
A colleague of mine is one of the honchos in Portlaoise. He told me their foray into the U21's a few years ago nearly broke them, not to mention the extra work/hassleQuote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
The more I think about the clubs that have had to pack up and leave the league the more I appreciate those who have put so much into keeping LTFC going over the years. Both work and cash. The club is in good health at the moment, now if we could only get out of this damned First Division.
there was a great piece from gareth maher in todays mail on Cobh Ramblers.. he seems very confident that Cobh Ramblers will get back in for next season.
That sounds like an interesting read if anyone can put it on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martinho II
Yeah, wouldn't mind seeing that if its online.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheifo
Hope Cobh can make a comeback. Is the GAA very strong in Cobh can anyone tell ?
The gaa club in cobh is very well run as far as I can tell but tbh they haven't had much success, the hurling team were relegated to junior status a couple of seasons ago and the gaelic football side of things operates at junior level too which for a town of its size is not good.Quote:
Originally Posted by wonder88
They seem to be placing a lot of emphasis on the underage set up which seems to be doing alright.
Cobh Ramblers could be re-admitted to the First Division next season as talks continue over the club’s outstanding debts.
http://s1.jrnl.ie/media/2012/11/inph...74-390x285.jpg
COBH RAMBLERS ARE in line for a return to Airtricity League football next season. The mid-season collapse of Monaghan United has left the unappealing scenario of just seven teams competing in the First Division in 2013. That void could be filled by Ramblers and talks with the FAI and players’ body the PFAI are ongoing with a view to granting the Cork club a licence.
The news comes following a report todaythat the plan to create unify Galway’s existing teams into a a single club will not happen until 2014 at the earliest. The Galway City Tribune reports that Galway United Supporters Trust (GUST) will not be granted a licence for next season. Ramblers, who number former Irish internationals Roy Keane and Stephen Ireland among their past players, were demoted to the “A” Championship in 2009 as the Independent Club Licensing Committee sought to crack down on financial irregularities within the league. Although they were optimistic that they would be green-lighted for a return in 2012, the FAI pressed ahead with an eight-team structure, rejecting the applications from Cobh and from Tralee Dynamos. It is understood that Cobh still have outstanding debts in the region of €24,000 owed to former players and others, and it is this sum which will be the key issue in negotiations. Speaking toTheScore.ie, PFAI chief executive Stephen McGuinness confirmed that discussions were ongoing with a number of the league’s former clubs but declined to identify the teams involved.
“We’re in discussions with the FAI at the moment and I would be surprised if there’s not more teams in the First Division next season,” McGuinness said.
“We’re in discussions with them currently on some teams that owe money to former players and that might be a stumbling block to them coming into the league. We’re in discussions with the FAI to try and overcome some of those problems to ensure that there is another one or two teams in the division. That ultimately will give employment to some of our members and also make that league more attractive for supporters and sponsors and people in general. He added: “With seven teams, you don’t need to be a rocket scientists to see that it doesn’t work. It’s in our interest to get teams that may have fallen out in the last couple of years back in, but that has to be done on the premise that monies that are owed to former players are honoured.
“We would be open enough to discuss them with the FAI and with the individual clubs involved. Hopefully we’ll see more than seven teams in that division in the next couple of weeks.”
The rumour mill locally has been touting that Kilkenny City will be back in the league in the next 2yrs but the biggest stumbling block is also the clubs biggest asset imo, Buckley Park. The grounds and pitch (whilst a little sloped) are in very good order still and more than capable for a LOI team. The issue is the grounds are 3 miles outside the city. Whilst it's not a lot, it probably cuts exposure to the club by half. You also have none of the footfall of a local residential area(s) nearby. Die hard fans are the lifeblood of every club and I'd know quiet a few people who went to pretty much every game but I think it's location is probably off putting to a casual fan, and a smaller club like that needs to be accessible to all really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillonman
Whilst the county and city on a whole is hurling mad, soccer is easily the number 2 sport. It's pretty much if you don't play one it's mostly cos you play the other. For such a small pool the KDL has won the Oscar Traynor trophy 5 times which shows not everyone here is a small ball fanatic.
Take for instance this Sunday will be the 1st league meeting of Kilkennys biggest junior clubs and biggest rivals, Freebooters Vs. Evergreen. The weather will probably have a bearing on attendance but it will still draw approx. 250-300 people to it (easily double on a dry spring/autumn evening). Only half of those will be directly involved or supporters of either club meaning the other half are just people looking for a decent game to watch. When the reverse fixture is played there will be probably only 100-150 people at it (depending on time of year and whats a stake by then maybe). For anyone that knows Kilkenny, Freebooters play beside the cinema which is right in the heart of the town, basically where the commercial aspect ends and the residential side of the town begins. Evergreen play at a new complex 5 miles outside the town hence what will in all likely be a big drop in the numbers attending. It's those interested in the game cos it was local that won't/can't go.
The point I'm making is that I couldn't see Kilkenny City returning to the league without a ground somewhere near or in the center of the town (Scanlon Park is the only remotely viable site if even). The flip side of it is, I don't ever see Kilkenny City returning to the league and not being in Buckley Park either.
One saving grace could be that the KDL's own pitch is up at the back of Buckley Park and now has a floodlit pitch installed. A lot of the local junior clubs are using the pitch for training so it could well be decent exposure and free advertising directly to the its target audience without any cost except for a few advertising boards for kick-off times, next game etc.
Would love to see City back in the league in the near future but with a few locals in the side - Pat Scully might have done a good job with nearly a complete Dublin team but it felt soulless supporting them. Not sure how every other club feels about having no locals in the side but from a part of the world where the parish rule rules all, it's hard not to crave some sort of attachment.
Splitting a future expanded 1st Division into North/South or East/West may be the only way clubs like City could sustain a team without being on the verge of bankruptcy every year, but that's a different discussion entirely.
Personally, I'd love to see Kilkenny back. Fantastic little ground, great memories of our last promotion season down there. Lovely city, great place to spend a weekend, lovely people.
It's a real shame however, that I just don't see it happening. The only way forward for Kilkenny city is if they applied to be part of the league and ran an all amateur side with local players from the likes of Freebooters and Evergreen.