Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Nothing "bizarre" about it - some of your language and ideals are straight out of the school of BNP thinking.:rolleyes:

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Except you're clearly suffering from amnesia as I defined earlier the broad difference between the exclusionist, racist nationalism of the BNP and the vastly more inclusiveness of Irish nationalism.
However, you want to be British, so by definition can't be Irish, but we don't mind. We'd accept you anyway.
Somehow you & yer ilk would be liable to complain about it more than us. And some of them would go looking to the BNP, seeing they share the same phobia, not to mention similar tastes in colour scheme and music, about losing 'identity'.....

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Well I only know two, my sisters. Though to be fair they only ever have had Irish citizenship and never received such forms AFAIK.

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If they wish to denounce their British Citizenship, they'll need to request the forms.;)

Let me know how they get on.:D

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Except you're clearly suffering from amnesia as I defined earlier the broad difference between the exclusionist, racist nationalism of the BNP and the vastly more inclusiveness of Irish nationalism.
However, you want to be British, so by definition can't be Irish, but we don't mind. We'd accept you anyway.
Somehow you & yer ilk would be liable to complain about it more than us. And some of them would go looking to the BNP, seeing they share the same phobia, not to mention similar tastes in colour scheme and music, about losing 'identity'.....

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But for me to be "Irish", in your warped worldview, I have to give up my "Britishness".

Your definition is fine and dandy - i'll use an Internationally recognised Agreement as my source of reference - as overwhelmingly supported by the people of the Republic Of Ireland at the ballot box.;)

You're crackers.

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Originally Posted by The Fly

Once again GSTQ has no official status in Northern Ireland.

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It does! It's the NA of the host nation, that being NI, which is part of the UK. It has the same status in the other three countries in the UK and, since you like the Welsh and Scottish examples, their sporting anthems are not official. Their NA is GSTQ.

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I have already stated that I would be against GSTQ being used to represent the Irish rugby team. If the sporting anthem ('Ireland's Call'), were to be used solely, I wouldn't have a problem with that. That's despite my dislike for it as a song, but then what do you expect when you ask Phil Coulter to write one

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And I suspect this official status thing is a red herring for those against the playing of GSTQ at Ireland rugby games. I quite like Ireland's Call as it goes, at least it's free of the usual old ****e about god and queens and battles and monocultural ideas of national identity.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

If they wish to denounce their British Citizenship, they'll need to request the forms.

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But how can they denounce something they never had, wanted or needed???

As for being crackers;suggest you look at what you're saying and the various contradictions which are so typical of unionism.
We started jokely talking about an AI team, but then you claim to be have to be Irish & British. As yer man said, at best you can be half-and-half. Which is fair enough.
But despite maybe some changing views, most people still want to be one way or the other. The 'both' nonsense doesn't come into it. And if you don't believe me, look at how 95% minimum vote in the North.
If you went round with literature with a UJ/Tricolour on there, it'd be a long time before anyone takes you seriously....

Anyway, the bigger picture is that we're more accepting of you, than you are of us. Even though you claim to be 'Irish'....Maybe by geogragraphical location, but not by nature or disposition!
And all that 'Agreement' is an agreement to disagree!

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Originally Posted by JohnB

It does! It's the NA of the host nation, that being NI, which is part of the UK. It has the same status in the other three countries in the UK and, since you like the Welsh and Scottish examples, their sporting anthems are not official. Their NA is GSTQ.

And I suspect this official status thing is a red herring for those against the playing of GSTQ at Ireland rugby games. I quite like Ireland's Call as it goes, at least it's free of the usual old ****e about god and queens and battles and monocultural ideas of national identity.

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You're right about official status. But so last century.
It's very average IC (Personally Id' prefer The Sash & SS one after another) but otherwise, yes.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

You are talking < 100 people surely, even in Rossnowlagh who are willingly Irish citizens?
But don't worry, we don't mind them, nor them us!

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I've no idea about numbers of prods/OO types in the RoI, but I have been surprised by the depth of their feeling. Some do mind very much about how they've been treated and how they're perceived in the RoI.

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As for TQ song, it's a terrible dirge. Why doesn't the North at least come into the 20th century and go for 'Danny Boy' (or similar) as a sporting anthem? At least it mentions the green Glens and you don't have to share it with the worst kind of moronic England fan....

Even 'The Sash' or something to the tune of 'The Billy Boys' would make more sense and be a dammed sight more rousing than that and the 'No Surrender' add-on! ;)

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I'd like a new anthem and flag for NI, but we've only recently emerged from several decades of murder, so things are still very sensitive. The recent murders aren't helping either. I don't see us getting rid of GSTQ for a while yet, but I think it will come once the country is feeling a bit more confident.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

But I'll give you the benefit for now and read those questions/answers properly when I have time.
Again I'd be be interested in the methodology.

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it's not you'll "give me the benefit", as you so condescendingly put it, rather that you have nothing else to offer in argument to it. even now you are ONLY interested in the methodology because it is your only argumental option. if the figures had suited your opinion methodology wouldn't even have crossed your mind.
you've been trolling pretty much the whole way through the thread throwing out unsubstantiated, incorrect and stereotyped images that you obviously believe but can't back up.
do us all a favour and give it a rest.

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Originally Posted by JohnB

It does! It's the NA of the host nation, that being NI, which is part of the UK. It has the same status in the other three countries in the UK and, since you like the Welsh and Scottish examples, their sporting anthems are not official. Their NA is GSTQ.

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The UK is not being represented, Northern Ireland is. That is why the Scots and Welsh use their own anthems, as well as for obvious nationalistic reasons. The English use GSTQ, as we all know, but then Englishness and Britishness have always been one and the same thing - or at the very least, Britishness has always been seen, both domestically and certainly internationally, as Englishness writ large.

Here's a question for you JohnB;
If England chooses to have it's own anthem, which is gathering momentum there, with 'Land of Hope and Glory' or 'Jerusalem' being the two preferred candidates, would you still expect Northern Ireland to use GSTQ as it's 'official anthem'?

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Originally Posted by JohnB

And I suspect this official status thing is a red herring for those against the playing of GSTQ at Ireland rugby games. I quite like Ireland's Call as it goes, at least it's free of the usual old ****e about god and queens and battles and monocultural ideas of national identity.

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That's fair enough.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

But how can they denounce something they never had, wanted or needed???

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Were your sisters born in Northern Ireland, and continue to live in Northern Ireland?

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

As for being crackers;suggest you look at what you're saying and the various contradictions which are so typical of unionism.
We started jokely talking about an AI team, but then you claim to be have to be Irish & British.

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No contradictions at all - my identity is multi faceted.

I don't understand what the gibberish in the second sentence above means, or what point you are attempting to make?:confused:

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Originally Posted by JohnB

I've no idea about numbers of prods/OO types in the RoI, but I have been surprised by the depth of their feeling. Some do mind very much about how they've been treated and how they're perceived in the RoI.

I'd like a new anthem and flag for NI, but we've only recently emerged from several decades of murder, so things are still very sensitive. The recent murders aren't helping either. I don't see us getting rid of GSTQ for a while yet, but I think it will come once the country is feeling a bit more confident.

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5% Prods in the Free State and of that 1-2% max. would have any feelings for the OO.
But seriously have no problem with anyone, except certain 'Flat-Earthers', at both ends of the Prod/RC extremes who're nearly as demented as each other.

As for your colleague from Larne;wasn't me who came on an 'opposing' MB shouting the odds and accusing me of trolling. You know nothing about me, or my experiences, yet you claim everything I say is unsubstantiated.
Well you're wrong. I make a point of talking to and asking people, of all religions and persuasions. You should try it sometime.

Admit still get fired up by all this, but have my own personal reasons.
If people are willing to move on as HS and you (without the conciliatory tone) suggest, then all well and good.
I sincerely hope so. And that all those who've died unnecessarily in Ireland under British interference, wasn't in vain.
Just accept that people have different experiences before saying their images and stereotypes are wrong;have spoken to certain Northern politicians and believe me, as HS says, they are very very clear in what they stand for. And don't currently see it any other way.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Were your sisters born in Northern Ireland, and continue to live in Northern Ireland?

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They were born there, but left when they were children. We used to joke they had 'dual' citizenship, but they weren't so keen on the idea!

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Originally Posted by The Fly

If England chooses to have it's own anthem, which is gathering momentum there, with 'Land of Hope and Glory' or 'Jerusalem' being the two preferred candidates, would you still expect Northern Ireland to use GSTQ as it's 'official anthem'?

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I'm sure JohnB will answer for himself, but I'm supportive of a Northern Irish "sporting" anthem to be brought in asap.

England can do what they like.

My National Anthem, is, and will remain, GSTQ.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

No contradictions at all - my identity is multi faceted.

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Exactly!

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

They were born there, but left when they were children. We used to joke they had 'dual' citizenship, but they weren't so keen on the idea!

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So, they don't live in Northern Ireland any longer?

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I'm sure JohnB will answer for himself, but I'm supportive of a Northern Irish "sporting" anthem to be brought in asap.

England can do what they like.

My National Anthem, is, and will remain, GSTQ.

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Fair Enough NB.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

So, they don't live in Northern Ireland any longer?

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Hence the word 'left'. But you only mentioned Irish citizens born in the North.....

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Hence the word 'left'. But you only mentioned Irish citizens born in the North.....

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So they were born in Northern Ireland, and left?

What year were they born?

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Originally Posted by JohnB

I'd like a new anthem and flag for NI, but we've only recently emerged from several decades of murder, so things are still very sensitive. The recent murders aren't helping either. I don't see us getting rid of GSTQ for a while yet, but I think it will come once the country is feeling a bit more confident.

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To answer properly, or more so, Good Luck with the most inclusive choices possible.
Seen the flags and very know vaguely one of the designers....