Robbie Keane

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

He's scored competitive goals from open play against Italy, France and Sweden since the 2002 World Cup. Klose scored goals against top/second seed standard teams 8 times over the last two qualifying campaigns.

Every goal counts but I wouldn't be starting Keane against direct rivals on the basis of how he performs against them which has been by and large, pretty poorly. We have to get with the times and make the switch to a 5 man midfield for those matches and Keane can not perform with that function.

We have even seen over the last few games how a switch in formation made Whelan look like a better player. This is someone - for all the talk about how Hoolahan and Reid could not play in a 4 man midfield - was responsible for helping us concede several important goals in qualification games by giving away the ball in stupid positions or failing to track players; fundamental stuff. It's not like he possesses any creative streak, goalscoring threat or even passes the half-way line, so the basics of tracking players runs and providing a half-decent screen for the defence is the least he can do! Mini rant about Whelan over

I would still start Keane against the bottom seed teams and spring him off the bench against the big teams when we are chasing a goal though.

We don't know how Keane would react in such circumstances though? Team player or retirement?

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Have they got more value than goals not from open play? Why do you persist with this bizarre anti-Keane fallacy?

Sure Robbie is getting on as is natural for us all. Time waits for no man and all that but seriously your assertion that we should drop Robbie is purely speculative and frankly laughable without any concrete proof to the contrary.

And as regards your thinking that Robbie is not a team player and would retire on losing his starting place is bordering on insanity. Where have you pulled that ASSumption from?

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I would wager that the anti-Keane brigade, on Robbie's retirement whenever it may come, will consider him a quitter and a failure for not continuing.


The simple truth is until our other forwards start to actually score to the same extent and to a similar consistency then there should be room for Robbie in all cases.

There's a certain merit to you say changing his role, but you can state that without resorting to these petty and quite frankly ridiculous statistics that you are coming up with.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

If Robbie Keane's goalscoring record against top seeds was up to snuff, then maybe we would have qualified for more tournaments between 2002 and 2012. There was a period in time where Clinton Morrison would be more likely to score against a direct rival.

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There you have it. It's Robbie's fault we didn't get to Euro 2004 or 2008 or the 2006 and 2010 World Cups.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

Have they got more value than goals not from open play? Why do you persist with this bizarre anti-Keane fallacy?

Sure Robbie is getting on as is natural for us all. Time waits for no man and all that but seriously your assertion that we should drop Robbie is purely speculative and frankly laughable without any concrete proof to the contrary.

And as regards your thinking that Robbie is not a team player and would retire on losing his starting place is bordering on insanity. Where have you pulled that ASSumption from?

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I would wager that the anti-Keane brigade, on Robbie's retirement whenever it may come, will consider him a quitter and a failure for not continuing.


The simple truth is until our other forwards start to actually score to the same extent and to a similar consistency then there should be room for Robbie in all cases.

There's a certain merit to you say changing his role, but you can state that without resorting to these petty and quite frankly ridiculous statistics that you are coming up with.

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They are not my petty and ridiculous statistics!

I like Robbie Keane but he is 34 years old this summer and his performances have been diminishing noticeably for several years. A hat-trick against Faroe Islands and brace in a friendly against Georgia doesn't paper over those cracks.

It's irrelevant how much or how little our forwards score. Robbie is 34 and can not play in a 433/451 formation. The needs of the team outweigh the needs of Robbie. Wes Hoolahan, Andy Reid and potentially Stephen Ireland our more important to our 2016 Qualification chances. If we are going to play with 5 in midfield - like the previous several campaigns have proven we have to - then Shane Long should be lone striker.

Robbie Keane - if he is a team player - still has an important role to play. He is a far more luxurious option off the bench then the dross we have been accustomed to over the years; Keogh, Cox, Sammon, Green....

I would even start him against the bottom seeded teams because his record against them (especially under Trapattoni is superb).

I understand that my assertion that Keane heavily implied he would retire upon being dropped is causing consternation but he did imply such a thing approximately three years ago and as soon as I am able to supply a link, I will.

I can not fathom how a 33 year old playing in the MLS and who has not performed consistently at club level or against direct rivals at International level in several years could possibly think he should be guaranteed a place in the team.

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Originally Posted by AlaskaFox

There you have it. It's Robbie's fault we didn't get to Euro 2004 or 2008 or the 2006 and 2010 World Cups.

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That's twisting my words now in fairness.

I just think that if Robbie Keane's importance to the Irish National Team is being held up on a pedestal to Miroslav Klose, then his International goalscoring record should be more closely analysed.

Since the World Cup 2002, he hasn't score many important goals in important games - the games in which Qualification are ultimately achieved. He was a pivotal figure in helping us to qualify for Euro 2012, primarily because of his goals against lower seeded teams and when we actually got to the tournament, he was very poor. Of course simply getting to an International competition is an achievement for some people.

The crux of my argument is that Keane does not score enough goals against no.1, no.2 or even no.3 standard teams. That isn't to denigrate his overall goalscoring achievements. I have already said they will never be beaten by an Irish player.

In another thread, I bemoaned our inability to beat big International teams in meaningful games, something that Northern Ireland and Scotland are regularly able to do. Perhaps this links in to what I am saying about Keane?

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

They are not my petty and ridiculous statistics!

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You're right they are barely stats.

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I like Robbie Keane but he is 34 years old this summer and his performances have been diminishing noticeably for several years. A hat-trick against Faroe Islands and brace in a friendly against Georgia doesn't paper over those cracks.

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You are heading dangerously towards the Paul O'Shea zone of "selective data".

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It's irrelevant how much or how little our forwards score.

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You have to be kidding?

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Robbie is 34 and can not play in a 433/451 formation.

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Why can't he?

On several occasions due to the toothlessness of our creative outlets in the last campaign Robbie found himself actually coming back to receive the ball. And was pretty effective in that "role".

If the new management team is going to start playing 433 or 451 then the logical way to try it out is in friendlies with Robbie-in-tow.

If it doesn't work then you change it up.

I would wager it is unlikely that Robbie will play in every game in the next campaign but who knows what ill happen.

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The needs of the team outweigh the needs of Robbie. Wes Hoolahan, Andy Reid and potentially Stephen Ireland our more important to our 2016 Qualification chances. If we are going to play with 5 in midfield - like the previous several campaigns have proven we have to - then Shane Long should be lone striker.

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We don't need to play 5 in midfield but we need at least a top-6.

Given the opportunities that Long wasted in the last campaign I would be fearful of him as our lone striker. If we play a lone striker we have to play Robbie given all evidence at our disposal.

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Robbie Keane - if he is a team player - still has an important role to play. He is a far more luxurious option off the bench then the dross we have been accustomed to over the years; Keogh, Cox, Sammon, Green....

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What is this "team player" bull you keep spouting?

Of course he has an important role to play. He's been the most important player in our history with out compare.

Calling those players dross is incredibly glib and unfair and shows how petty you can be for no valid reason:

Keogh: Was never gonna set the world on fire especially how he was utilised.

Cox: Gave 100% everytime and was unfortunately used out of position too often towards he creaky end of Trap's reign. Can never fault his application.

Sammon: Totally out of his depth. But he was called up and he played. You would have done the same. It's not his fault that he was in the squad.

Green: Any criticism of Green's apparent awfulness I find is based on a biased opinion seemingly created by the liked of Dunphy and barstoolers.
Green completely neutralised Ibra against Sweden and got practically no credit.
He has been a credit to the shirt. When when he gets a well-deserved MOTM he's roundly slagged as if it's some joke. Keep ytour ire for the likes of Whelan whose shortcomings have been far more costly to us.

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I would even start him against the bottom seeded teams because his record against them (especially under Trapattoni is superb).

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I would start him in every game he is fit and is in better form than our other options.

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I understand that my assertion that Keane heavily implied he would retire upon being dropped is causing consternation but he did imply such a thing approximately three years ago and as soon as I am able to supply a link, I will.

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I find it odd that you can make an assertion with no evidence but I am sure, that as an active user of this forum over the last 5 years that I would certainly have read that. And others would have commented on it here.

Can anyone shed light on this? I genuinely have no recollection of it.

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I can not fathom how a 33 year old playing in the MLS and who has not performed consistently at club level or against direct rivals at International level in several years could possibly think he should be guaranteed a place in the team.

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I cannot fathom how an inconsistent 26 year old playing for average PL teams keeps being touted as the saviour...

1. I provided a link to a list of his International goals. Take away the friendlies and he has barely any goals against a high standard of International team.

2. I said Keane's goals against teams like Faroe Islands and Georgia are still important but the catch 22 is that he is playing at too poor a standard to replicate those performances against half-decent teams. If we are relying on one 34 year old MLS player to bail us out with all our goals then we are in trouble. I have faith in our team scoring more goals all over the pitch once dead end players like Whelan and Green are dropped and players like Brady, McClean, Ireland, Reid, Hoolahan, Pilkington and Long are properly utilised.

3. No I am not kidding! It doesn't matter how much or how little Long, Walters and Doyle score against the big teams because present day Keane is not going to score any more than them. Statistically, he is more likely to score against the bottom seed teams hence why I would be more open to selecting Keane for these matches. The defenders he plays against are of a similar standard to those of the MLS and whatever age he is, Keane will not lose the ability to outwit defenders who aren't as clever as he is.

4. Long is more apt to play as a lone forward. Keane dropping back into midfield just makes him even less of a goal threat and more ineffective than he already is. His link up play is not on a par with Long or Doyle imo.

5. Long is still more likely to score against the top seeded teams as his domestic performances against teams like Chelsea and Liverpool prove. Keane is more likely to score against bottom seeded teams but I have never disputed that. We are going to have to look past Keane at some point and if we can't beat teams like Macedonia and Andorra because he isn't playing then I despair.

6. I said Sammon, Keogh, Green and Cox were dross options and I stand by it. Of course I wouldn't begrudge them a call up though. In their shoes, I would gladly accept a call up. The constant selections of players like Walters and Cox in particular and pushing Green and marginalising more creative players like Reid and Hoolahan epitomised where the Trapattoni era went so badly wrong. It went okay for a year or two but eventually you become so predictable you hit a dead end and the constant playing for one point becomes an albatross around your neck. I mean come on, a win and a loss is worth more than two draws.

7. Okay that's your opinion. I think the League he is playing in is poor and Long looks like a PL player every week.

8. People can read what he said however they want. I will look for the exact quotes.

9. I didn't say Long is the saviour. I just think it is more prudent to start a player who is in his peak and regularly troubles the best defences in the best League in the world than it is to start a 34 year old playing in a Mickey Mouse League who doesn't play as well against the best defenders and whom is no more likely to score against them. Which is the crux of the argument.

TOWK - what percentage of Ireland goals against "bigger teams" were scored by Keane?

Keane has NEVER let Ireland down in terms of commitment or as a team player. He has showed up everytime he's been asked and always put in 110%.

I think Long is the future but Keane is still the best goal scorer we have. Your point #5 above is straight out of analysis for dummies.

As well as being far and away Ireland's greatest ever striker, he is also in the top ten (or thereabouts) strikers in the history of the premiership. Yeah, a decent career alright...

Fast forward 30 years and our kids and grand kids will have only one opinion of Keane - world class striker, the best we ever had and 100% legend.

One question for you - where in ireland are you from and what teams do you support?

For shiz and giggles I analysed Keane's goals post WC2002:

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21-Aug-02 *Finland 3–0 Friendly 1
07-Jun-03 *Albania 2–1 EURO 2004 Q 1
11-Jun-03 *Georgia 2–0 EURO 2004 Q 1
18-Nov-03 *Canada 3–0 Friendly 2
31-Mar-04 *Czech Rep 2–1 Friendly 1
05-Jun-04 *Nether 1–0 Friendly 1
04-Sep-04 *Cyprus 3–0 WC2006 Q 1
13-Oct-04 *Faroes 2–0 WC2006 Q 2
16-Nov-04 *Croatia 1–0 Friendly 1
04-Jun-05 *Israel 2–2 WC2006 Q 1
01-Mar-06 *Sweden 3–0 Friendly 1
15-Nov-06 *San Marino 5–0 EURO 2008 Q 3
22-Aug-07 *Denmark 4–0 Friendly 2
11-Nov-07 *Wales 2–2 EURO 2008 Q 1
29-May-08 *Colombia 1–0 Friendly 1
20-Aug-08 *Norway 1–1 Friendly 1
15-Oct-08 *Cyprus 1–0 WC2010 Q 1
11-Feb-09 *Georgia 2–1 WC2010 Q 2
01-Apr-09 *Italy 1–1 WC2010 Q 1
29-May-09 *Nigeria 1–1 Friendly 1
05-Sep-09 *Cyprus 2–1 WC2010 Q 1
18-Nov-09 *France 1–1 WC2010 Q 1
28-May-10 *Algeria 3–0 Friendly 2
07-Sep-10 *Andorra 3–1 EURO 2012 Q 1
08-Oct-10 *Russia 2–3 EURO 2012 Q 1
26-Mar-11 *Macedonia 2–1 EURO 2012 Q 1
24-May-11 *Nor Ireland 5–0 Carling Nations 2
29-May-11 *Scotland 1–0 Carling Nations 1
04-Jun-11 *Macedonia 2–0 EURO 2012 Q 2
11-Nov-11 *Estonia 4–0 EURO 2012 Q 2
09-Sep-12 *Kazakh 2–1 WC2014 Q 1
02-Jun-13 *Georgia 4–0 Friendly 2
07-Jun-13 *Faroes 3–0 WC2014 Q 3
06-Sep-13 *Sweden 1–2 WC2014 Q 1
15-Oct-13 *Kazakh 3–1 WC2014 Q 1
15-Nov-13 *Latvia 3–0 Friendly 1

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Goals since WC2002: 49
Goals in competitive games: 26
Important goals since 2002: 7
Goals that changed result (all games): 25
Goals that changed result (comp games): 18

Important goals were scored based on what you have consistently stated as our group rivals.
I'm currently working on the tables of where Ireland would be if Robbie's goals were discounted.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

TOWK - what percentage of Ireland goals against "bigger teams" were scored by Keane?

Keane has NEVER let Ireland down in terms of commitment or as a team player. He has showed up everytime he's been asked and always put in 110%.

I think Long is the future but Keane is still the best goal scorer we have. Your point #5 above is straight out of analysis for dummies.

As well as being far and away Ireland's greatest ever striker, he is also in the top ten (or thereabouts) strikers in the history of the premiership. Yeah, a decent career alright...

Fast forward 30 years and our kids and grand kids will have only one opinion of Keane - world class striker, the best we ever had and 100% legend.

One question for you - where in ireland are you from and what teams do you support?

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He's 11th all-time in the EPL.

And you are right on every count.

If scoring goals against lesser teams is so easy how come nobody else can do it? Even when Long was picked ahead of Keane (Georgia) he couldn't hit a barn door. I think Robbie is nearing the end of his shelf life but for goals he has no competition.

I think Keane could still be playing at Long's standard of club. His cameo at Villa last season showed he still has quality. He's only a year older than Ibrahimovic and is in great shape. I think we can squeeze another campaign out of him, certainly the first half of one. Keane has earned the right to a well paid curtain call at the MLS, with a lifestyle to go with it. LA or Hull. Hmmm...

The reason Robbie doesn't score vital goals against big teams has nothing whatsoever to do with him being in the MLS. It's because we only play a big team once a year and we haven't been very good for a long time.

Long is a lot of good things but instinctive, reliable and natural goal scorer he ain't. Some of his recent misses for Ireland have been poor, as was his inability to pick out Keane for a tap in at home to Sweden. He also has a petulant streak that he showed at home to Sweden, making dumb late tackles, and arguably also cost us the points at home to Austria. Trap took him off because he had lost his cool when already on a yellow. If he had kept his cool Sammon might have come off instead. He ballooned a great chance over the bar in Stockholm.

I'm not trying to rubbish Long, just the silly notion that he's most likely to score against big teams.

Now, if the debate is whether Keane should make room for a Reid or Hoolahan type of advanced playmaker, with a player like Long ahead, then I think there's merit in that line of thought.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Now, if the debate is whether Keane should make room for a Reid or Hoolahan type of advanced playmaker, with a player like Long ahead, then I think there's merit in that line of thought.

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There is merit in such a discussion but not in the context of Keane being rubbish which is what TOWK is peddling.

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

There is merit in such a discussion but not in the context of Keane being rubbish which is what TOWK is peddling.

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Where have I said Keane is "rubbish"?

I said his International career does not compare to Klose's which is an undisputed fact.
He had a "respectable" career in the Premier League. How does respectable get misinterpreted as "rubbish"?
I credited him for his knack of scoring goals against teams ranked below 50 in the International rankings and admitted that our other forward options don't possess said knack.
I said that continuing with a 4-4-2 formation is regressive and to accommodate Hoolahan, Reid or Ireland, I cannot see how you would fit Keane into that formation.
And lastly, I don't think Keane's performances at International level have vindicated making him an automatic selection in the games against the top ranked teams.

The guy spends 75% of matches just moaning at teammates and badgering the referee.

The fact is that he has a maximum of one campaign left as a regular starter, as do Dunne and possibly O'Shea. Long, Stokes and whomever may not score as many goals (against the lower ranked teams) but we are going to have to start giving them a chance.

"Long is a lot of good things but instinctive, reliable and natural goal scorer he ain't. Some of his recent misses for Ireland have been poor, as was his inability to pick out Keane for a tap in at home to Sweden. He also has a petulant streak that he showed at home to Sweden, making dumb late tackles, and arguably also cost us the points at home to Austria. Trap took him off because he had lost his cool when already on a yellow. If he had kept his cool Sammon might have come off instead. He ballooned a great chance over the bar in Stockholm."

I agree with the majority of what you say but you can not blame our capitulation against Austria on Long. It was tactical suicide taking the only forward with any stamina off, leaving Sammon and Walters on and putting Paul Green on the wing. There was no tactical nous whatsoever about anything Trapattoni did in that game. Leaving Sammon on had the same effect of Long being sent off. You had 10 players not going past the half-way line and then you had Sammon totally knackering himself by running all over the Austrian side of the pitch with no teammates anywhere remotely near him.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Where have I said Keane is "rubbish"?

I said his International career does not compare to Klose's which is an undisputed fact.

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I dispute it. Klose had a far better team around him than Keane did.

Trap did take Long off because he lost his rag though. I'd have left him on and told him to calm down myself, but he was a walking red card at one stage.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

That's twisting my words now in fairness.

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No, no, that's exactly what you said.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

If Robbie Keane's goalscoring record against top seeds was up to snuff, then maybe we would have qualified for more tournaments between 2002 and 2012.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I like Robbie Keane but he is 34 years old this summer

Wes Hoolahan, Andy Reid

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32 this summer and 32 this summer.

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Originally Posted by AlaskaFox

No, no, that's exactly what you said.

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Well maybe we would have. He didn't score enough goals against top seeds. Qualification for us isn't (it shouldn't) be measured on how many goals you get against Liechtenstein. It's measured on how many goals you get against teams like Switzerland, France, Czech Republic and Germany but someone seems to get stage fright in those matches.

It was another Keane who dragged us to the World Cup in 2002 so when all is said and done, Robbie Keane contributed to helping us qualify for Euro 2012 and we all know how that turned out....

Again. Sorry if I implied that not qualifying for all those tournaments was all Robbie's fault. It wasn't. But he is a striker and he is being compared to Miroslav Klose so it's only fair to draw comparisons.

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Originally Posted by AlaskaFox

32 this summer and 32 this summer.

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We can still squeeze one more campaign out of them, as we can Keane. I never said I wouldn't have Keane in squads, just not as a guaranteed starter.

It's also important to remember that Reid is on fire in the Championship and Hoolahan plays well whenever he gets a game but he will have to wait until his move to Aston Villa goes through to get his game because Chris Hughton is Mr. Negativity.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Sorry if I implied that not qualifying for all those tournaments was all Robbie's fault. It wasn't

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Nothing implied, you straight out said it :)

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

If Robbie Keane's goalscoring record against top seeds was up to snuff, then maybe we would have qualified for more tournaments between 2002 and 2012.

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But anyway, lets say he goes as a squad player for another couple of campaigns, is there any chance he has another 17 Irish goals in him ? A couple of hat tricks vs some worthless minnows and he might have half a chance. It would put him level some guy who goes by the name of Pele.

Depressing article really about our lack of strikers coming through, but it does reiterate the importance of Robbie to us, which is relevant considering some recent rash comments about our leading goalscorer ever.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-29931089.html

It's always very interesting (or downright annoying) to hear someone say "don't get me wrong I like Robbie Keane" then go on to list a series of "crimes" and stats that try to denigrate his career. This near obsession of comparing him to strikers from major footballing nations is also just so ridiculous and pointless. From an Ireland perspective only one stat counts 62 goals in 131 appearances over 15 YEARS!

Robbies best XI and some other interesting info in a conversation with Kilbane for the daily mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-pressure.html
Given
Zannetti Dunne King Bale
Beckhame Keane Seedorf Gerrard Duff
Berbatov

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

I said his International career does not compare to Klose's which is an undisputed fact

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How can you call it an undisputed fact when the majority on here have been disputing it for the last couple of pages?

I'm not a believer in counting medals to determine a player's ability or contribution, but seeing as you used Klose's medal, in an incredibly unproductive spell at Bayern, I'll make an exception.

Keane has actually won more at international level than Klose, the U18 European Championship. Klose only has a bunch of runners up stuff but I don't think that means much to Germans.

Keane also won the Carling Nations Cup.

2-0 :D

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Originally Posted by BonnieShels

I find it odd that you can make an assertion with no evidence but I am sure, that as an active user of this forum over the last 5 years that I would certainly have read that. And others would have commented on it here.

Can anyone shed light on this? I genuinely have no recollection of it.

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Younger generation! what can you do! excess drink damaged brains and incapable of doing a teeny weeny bit of research.

It all came about from this type of flippant cynical headline, falsely trying to make a story out of a non story.
Keane vows to 'walk away' if Trapattoni puts faith in young guns
"It is all about now and I've said before if I didn't play for Ireland and someone else came in, I have always said I would walk away."

That's about as far some people got as their overtaxed one dimensional thought process stopped at the headline 'Robbie vows to walk away if he's dropped' and the headline became the one true interpretation of this story for these great minds for the next 3 year, even some to this day zealously believe the veracity of that headline. Not that they bothered to read Robbie's quoted sentiments expressed in a 100 articles since then 'As long as the manager calls him up he will turn up', just as he always done throughout his playing career. If the manager doesn't pick him, should he still travel across half the world and turn up looking to play?
Cue the headlines 'Robbie, get over it' - 'Move on Robbie', 'Walk away Robbie'.

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Originally Posted by gastric

Depressing article really about our lack of strikers coming through, but it does reiterate the importance of Robbie to us, which is relevant considering some recent rash comments about our leading goalscorer ever.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-29931089.html

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About a year ago we were all creaming ourselves about our striking options. If Long and Walters could just actually stick it in the net a bit more often we'd be fine.
Personally I foresee a goals coming from midfielders, diamond formation sort of a job after Robbie.

I would have Klose over Keane anyday, but cant argue with keane's record in the green jersey. His scoring record will never be beaten, that's for sure.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Younger generation! what can you do! excess drink damaged brains and incapable of doing a teeny weeny bit of research.

It all came about from this type of flippant cynical headline, falsely trying to make a story out of a non story.
Keane vows to 'walk away' if Trapattoni puts faith in young guns
"It is all about now and I've said before if I didn't play for Ireland and someone else came in, I have always said I would walk away."

That's about as far some people got as their overtaxed one dimensional thought process stopped at the headline 'Robbie vows to walk away if he's dropped' and the headline became the one true interpretation of this story for these great minds for the next 3 year, even some to this day zealously believe the veracity of that headline. Not that they bothered to read Robbie's quoted sentiments expressed in a 100 articles since then 'As long as the manager calls him up he will turn up', just as he always done throughout his playing career. If the manager doesn't pick him, should he still travel across half the world and turn up looking to play?
Cue the headlines 'Robbie, get over it' - 'Move on Robbie', 'Walk away Robbie'.

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Thank you good sir. Now I remember it and of course it again proves TOWK is talking though his hoop.

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Well maybe we would have. He didn't score enough goals against top seeds. Qualification for us isn't (it shouldn't) be measured on how many goals you get against Liechtenstein. It's measured on how many goals you get against teams like Switzerland, France, Czech Republic and Germany but someone seems to get stage fright in those matches.

It was another Keane who dragged us to the World Cup in 2002 so when all is said and done, Robbie Keane contributed to helping us qualify for Euro 2012 and we all know how that turned out....

Again. Sorry if I implied that not qualifying for all those tournaments was all Robbie's fault. It wasn't. But he is a striker and he is being compared to Miroslav Klose so it's only fair to draw comparisons.

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Why single out Robbie and not any of our other forwards who also didn't stick it in the net?

On the previous page I listed out all of Robbie's goals since WC2002 a cursory glance will show his importance in those campaigns in turning draws into wins and losses into draws.

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Originally Posted by Crosby87

Bill Murray:
Ireland worlds best place to play golf.
http://www.dailyedge.ie/bill-murray-...70660-Jan2014/

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he also said Irelands the best place to hunt ghosts.............seemingly


https://static.squarespace.com/stati...st4162012.jpeg

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Well maybe we would have. He didn't score enough goals against top seeds. Qualification for us isn't (it shouldn't) be measured on how many goals you get against Liechtenstein. It's measured on how many goals you get against teams like Switzerland, France, Czech Republic and Germany but someone seems to get stage fright in those matches.

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eh Robbie has scored against the french ,germans and czech rep

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

It was another Keane who dragged us to the World Cup in 2002 so when all is said and done, Robbie Keane contributed to helping us qualify for Euro 2012 and we all know how that turned out....

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Roy had a massive part to play in getting us to wc2002 - but he didnt get us there on his own....and your extremely naieve if you think he did.

Euro 2012 turned out the way it did primarily because of a manager and his caveman tactics.....not because of robbie keane

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Again. Sorry if I implied that not qualifying for all those tournaments was all Robbie's fault. It wasn't. But he is a striker and he is being compared to Miroslav Klose so it's only fair to draw comparisons.

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If you are truly sorry.....then you will stop posting this utter nonsense

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Robbies best XI and some other interesting info in a conversation with Kilbane for the daily mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...-pressure.html
Given
Zannetti Dunne King Bale
Beckhame Keane Seedorf Gerrard Duff
Berbatov

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You can actually watch picking that XI with full explanations on Sky's Fantasy Football Club here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FYDIrOx31U

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

But he is a striker and he is being compared to Miroslav Klose so it's only fair to draw comparisons.

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Had he been compared to Klose before you started doing it?

"It is all about now and I've said before if I didn't play for Ireland and someone else came in, I have always said I would walk away."

I interpret this differently from other people. I interpret it as if someone else comes in and starts every game then I will walk away. Won't fight to earn his place in the team. Won't settle for a role as a substitute. Won't settle for a squad place. Walk away.

We are all entitled to interpret it as we want.

And we can interpret his statistics however we want.

He scored against Germany in the World Cup 12 years ago. He scored against Czech Republic in a meaningless friendly. He scored a fantastic goal against France and also happened to miss a sitter in the same game. C'est la vie.

That was one of three goals from open play against genuinely good teams in approximately twelve years and one of them went down as a Noel Hunt goal originally.

I stand by absolutely everything I say. His goalscoring record is fantastic but it's open to scrutiny.

We got to the World Cup thanks mainly to the contributions of several other figures. We got to Euro 2012 and were the poorest team in the European Championships in living memory, apart from perhaps Bulgaria. Keane didn't score any goals from open play against Russia, Armenia or Slovakia. We didn't qualify for any tournaments between 2002 and 2012 during which time Keane struggled to get goals against the best teams.

As I keep saying. His record is good. His club career for ten years was very good. And yes, he walks into the squad,

But do I think he walks into the team? No, I don't and his performances over the last three years, in my opinion, stand to that.

He scored a goal against Holland in Amsterdam in a friendly in 2004. But I guess you wouldnt count that as it's a friendly. It might be easier to understand your arguement if you listed the big games he didn't score in, since you are excluding lesser teams and excluding friendlies - I'm not sure that leaves too many games left.

If you exclude all of his goals, Robbie has a pathetic 0 goals in 131 games for Ireland.

Shane Long, by contrast, has a creditable 10 in 43 #cowboy #nuffsaid

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

He scored a goal against Holland in Amsterdam in a friendly in 2004. But I guess you wouldnt count that as it's a friendly. It might be easier to understand your arguement if you listed the big games he didn't score in, since you are excluding lesser teams and excluding friendlies - I'm not sure that leaves too many games left.

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Indeed. Not an unreasonable request at all.

TWOK, would you care to list the 'big' teams against whom Keane failed to score in the period in question please ? '02 to '12 I believe. The period in which he failed us so miserably and cost us so dearly. This will of course require us having played the country also.


And at the risk of repeating myself, Russia, Germany, Spain, Czech Republic, Holland, Croatia, Italy, France being among those he did register against in that time.

World Cup 2002

Goals against Portugal and Netherlands (1) v Netherlands

Euro 2004

Goals against Switzerland and Russia (0)

World Cup 2006

Goals against Switzerland, France and Israel (1) v Israel

Euro 2008

Goals against Czech Republic, Germany, Slovakia and Wales (1) v Wales dead rubber

World Cup 2010

Goals against Italy, Bulgaria and Montenegro (1) v Italy * Noel Hunt still claims it was his goal

Euro 2012

Goals against Russia, Slovakia and Armenia (1) v Russia *Penalty

World Cup 2014

Goals against Germany, Sweden and Austria (1) v Sweden

I never denigrated his goalscoring record. His goals against Germany in 2002 and France in 2009 will live in memory, he has an excellent record against smaller teams, he has a decent record against big teams in friendlies and you would bank on him to score a penalty (the miss in Slovakia had me tearing my hair out).

Which Irish striker of the last 15 years does have a good record against big teams though? Gary Doherty?!

And for posterity, yes I am aware he scored three in WC 2002 twelve years ago but more relevantly failed to find the net in Euro 2012.

And lest I sound too much like a contrarian, he has scored important goals in Playoffs against Iran (again twelve years ago), France in aforementioned Paris tie and against Estonia who are quite frankly a rubbish team.

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

Which Irish striker of the last 15 years does have a good record against big teams though? Gary Doherty?!

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Again, beside the point as Robbie Keane is pushing 34, playing in the MLS and incapable of producing against decent teams. I believe it's more prudent to consider other options and consider rotating Keane.

Or are we going to wait until Shane Long and Anthony Stokes are in their thirties to give them a concerted chance in the team?