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I remember reading a report a couple of years ago that stated that the majority of LoI players relied on a second job to survive - James Talbot, for example, is a postman. Players also complained about turning up to training feeling tired as a consequence, and not being able to commit to their sport as much as they would like. This isn't the case even at League Two level.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
There's clearly question marks over the standard at which Byrne is operating.
Every LOI player is a full time professional training 5 times a week so yeah?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Full time professional means they only have one job and that is football and that is simply not correctQuote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
I know that, I was arguing that they're not full time professionals. They're part-time because they don't train or get paid to be full time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
All fair enough but I'd add that his journey through the clubs mentioned has been fairly well documented and it wasn't always a case of him not being at the standard. Lot's going on with each of those moves and there's rarely mention of his time at Cambuur where he was top quality at a very high level. It also doesn't factor in his age at the time of all these moves or his mental state during them. He is still only 24 and has developed his game every year. He isn't the finished article and we see him adding elements to his game all the time. He is also hungry and determined so this isn't a case of a young lad losing his love for the game and dropping down the leagues.
Everything else I agree with; he isn't playing against international calibre players in the LOI but did look comfortable against Milan, has been the best player on the pitch against lesser European opponents and did very well against Bulgaria.
Will he light it up and control the game like he does at home if given the chance? Realistically I don't think so, it's a huge step up. But I think he can also hold his own and be a valuable part of a team. He very rarely loses the ball - even against Milan he was holding off challenges, beating players and creating chances despite being regularly double teamed - and won't have to pull all the strings for Ireland with better players around him than he is used to. I'd love to see him get 20 minutes. As mentioned, it would be worth having him on just for corners with Duffy on the field. It's a shame he wasn't fit or in form when the Nations League games were on.
The best comparison we probably have is Hoolahan. Jack is around that level in the LOI (but maybe with the extra weight of his performances in the Eredivisie) and we know Hoolahan was good enough to do a job. Does Jack need to go up a few leagues and develop further first? Probably, but no harm getting him some more international experience on the way.
No, they're not all full-time but most are.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
This is an interesting article on the subjust
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.iri...-pay-1.2886354
Where's your source on most are? Every source I've seen says the majority have another job to support themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Em, the players? Finn Harps and Bohs (although I think most of them solely earn from football) are the only part-time teams. Some of the younger players at a few clubs go to college. The rest train all week in the mornings. I'm sure your sources are fantastic but some of us actually follow the League of Ireland.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
Most of Harps squad are full time. There's a handful of them have a second job but most of the squad have football as their only income.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
In fairness, a Fifpro survey for me trumps a random punter claiming extra knowledge because he's in the terraces each week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Now if the Fifpro survey included First Division players (and I don't know if it does or not), then you've a valid counter-argument against it as the FD would certainly skew the results towards part-time players.
Edit - in fact, read the article (duh)...
It does include First Division players. In 2016 (when the survey dates from), the PD/FD split was 12 v 8 teams. So if you assume the players were split accordingly, and that all the FD players had second jobs, the report is saying that 40% of PD players also have second jobs. Which is still a lot.
If Limerick - splashing the cash in the FD that year - had some full-time players, then that would reduce the number of PD full-timers.
I follow the League of Ireland too, way to have a superiority complex about it though. I'm just not incredibly biased towards it. The FIFPro survey trumps you I'm afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I'm glad you seem to know every team and player personally to know their arrangements.
A four year old survey reflects the current league situation?
Better than someone saying "Yeah, but I watch the league", sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Let's be honest, the league has hardly improved financially since then.
100%. If anything in those 4 years the League's financial situation has declined. Cork City are a shell of what they were in 2016 as just one exampleQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I like how I automatically don't follow the League of Ireland because I'm a realist about it's situation. I love the LOI and would love to see us compete with any league. It's just not the reality right now. Unfortunate situation is that players have to leave to play at a higher level and Byrne has yet to do that in his career.
It doesn't automatically follow that because the overall standard of the league isn't close to international standard that EVERY player in the league isn't good enough either though. I would completely agree that playing in the English Championship is much better preparation for any player aspiring to regular international football than playing in the League of Ireland (or, for that matter, in the SPL) but Byrne shouldn't be dismissed solely on the basis of the league he plays in. He's an outlier certainly but there could be any reason why he's happy to stay at Rovers. A lack of footballing ambition might even be one of those reasons but that wouldn't prove he's not good enough at the moment either.
Similarly his English career isn't quite the barren wasteland painted above either - he played 44 times in a year with Oldham and there was, to my newfound knowledge today, plenty of complaints from their fans when he was frozen out and eventually released (not that League One football would necessarily settle the debate one way or the other). He looked up to the standard required when he played for Ireland thus far (albeit in friendlies) and that's surely more relevant than how he did at Wigan 4 years ago at this point?
Ultimately Byrne, realistically, is a marginal call. Somebody else said it above that they find it a little bit strange that anybody is getting so heated over his inclusion one way or the other and I'd be firmly in that camp myself.
I dont think he is good enough, but I'm just starting to wonder is there off field issues? Why is no one looking to sign him? It's a very real concern, it might be nothing of course.
You mean go to games?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Come on over to the League of Ireland forum. Welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
Maybe because he's a homebird, who isn't in a hurry to go away again and clubs have been made aware? He seems to have had a really hard time mentally in the last few years he was away, if he's home and happy and values that more than money and career advancement could anyone really blame him?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I wouldn't be overly surprised to see him move at the end of the domestic season, and I'd be amaze if an agent couldn't get him a championship side if he really wanted it. He's probably more suited to playing somewhere like Holland again though and you'd have to think he has some sort of links and reputation there after performing solidly previously. I do get the feeling he's just in a good place at home though and he's not in any hurry to jump into a move away again.
I'm married to someone who could be offered the Euro millions jackpot tomorrow but if she was told she'd have to move away to claim it and wouldn't be able to see her family for weeks on end I can absolutely guarantee she'd turn it down. Home and family can be an unbelievably strong draw for some, especially if they've had a traumatic experience away.
His agent is former Ireland international Graham Barrett I thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
If she does win it can I have the Money ?Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
That would make sense, he represents a lot of the Rovers lads and ex league of Ireland players these days as far as I know.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
It's mine, I'm more than happy to live away and only see her the odd time :DQuote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
If Only Eamonn Dunphy was still in his Prime and had the Hots for Jack ~ ~ ~
Just think Jack ~ ~ You could have been another of Eamonn Dunphy’s ~ ~ " Not Playing Messiahs "
You have been spared that Jack Byrne ! ! Praise the Lord ! !
Old Dunphy would be very unlikely to have the hots for a LOI player mind ! !
Hi. I think im lost. Was looking for the "Glen Crowe for Ireland" thread and must have took a wrong turn..
"I'm married to someone who could be offered the Euro millions jackpot tomorrow but if she was told she'd have to move away to claim it and wouldn't be able to see her family for weeks on end I can absolutely guarantee she'd turn it down"
I'm getting this on a t-shirt
You would have to offer me the jackpot to stay if it meant hanging around with my family and old friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
Jack Byrne grew up in the North Inner City very close to me and I remember from my youth thinking how the streets were paved with gold.
WHat kind of t-shirt will it be? A wedding dress?Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
A Fifpro survey from four years ago doesn't have any relevance to now. Right now, most players in the league are full time, don't work other jobs and for the most part train during the day. There's a few reasons for that but the numbers of professionals have gone up quite significantly in the past few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Only home games, still working on my YBIG credentials.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I'm not saying it to have a superiority complex, I'm saying it because you seem to be basing your knowledge off google. Of the 10 Premier Division clubs, eight of them train during the day, which precludes most supplementary work. The other two, as Nigel pointed out with Harps, have a large number of players who also do nothing but get paid to play football. I know there are players who still work outside of football but it's a small number. In fact, there are plenty of players who will drop down to the First Division or lower so they can keep their day jobs because it is no longer feasible to do both.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
He's linked in a FIFA survey of LoI players, which you've dismissed for no reason at all (I've already responded to Nigel who tried to dismiss it for being four years old) while insisting that you know better just because, it seems, you watch the games.
I don't think your argument is reasonable here.
Fine, I'll drop out of the discussion. The vast majority don't have second jobs but no point arguing the point.
In fairness, you never really entered the discussion.
Your sum contribution is -
Just your opinion.Quote:
You can continue saying Jack Byrne is playing against part-timers and it will continue not being true.
I can understand where the superiority complex accusation came from reading this.Quote:
I'm sure your sources are fantastic but some of us actually follow the League of Ireland.
It really does, for reasons that have been discussed on the thread.Quote:
A Fifpro survey from four years ago doesn't have any relevance to now.
So in effect, you've just waded in, made a claim, given no back-up for it whatsoever, and then gone into a strop when people have challenged that with actual evidence (ie Fifpro)
Those making the case on the part-time nature of the LoI may still be wrong of course - but at least they're trying to enter into a discussion. Your position is that you're right, and any evidence to the contrary must be wrong.
That's not a discussion.
Heard from a reliable source that he's been offered a contract with a Cypriot team. The fella said it's the club where Mick is.
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Mr Bungle mentioned APOEL as a possible destination for Byrne some weeks ago. Do we think this would be a good move?
https://www.independent.ie/sport/soc...-39832173.html
The Cypriot League is ranked 14th by UEFA, ahead of the Greek and Swiss leagues, the LoI behind Luxembourg's and Liechtenstein's.
Lot of Pro's and Con's really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
Pro's:
Lot of money among the top teams there.
Naturally, be playing in warm weather and on good pitches for the vast majority of the season.
Knows the manager already.
Likely be an English speaking group, with McCarthy in charge.
Probably a decent wage bump for him, although it's said there's a very healthy offer on the table from Shamrock Rovers for him.
Con's:
It's not the most stable league (same can, of course be said for the LOI)
APOEL have had 9 managers since 2017. (As well as a tenth interim manager)
Attendances are poor enough in Cyprus, not a whole lot better than LOI for the best part.
Well out of the way for Stephen Kenny to go to watch him play.
APOEL have had a poor start to the season and are highly unlikely to win the league this year, barring some sort of miracle turnaround, so there'd be a race to even qualify for the Europa League, never mind the Champions League. Cypriot teams only start in the next qualifying round to the LOI sides. They failed to qualify for Europa League group stages this season too.
There's a fair whack of money pumped into the top sides in Cyprus, so that's the single best thing he'll get out of it. Standard of the top teams is undoubtedly higher than that of the LOI, so it'll be more competitive for the best part.
I'm not entirely convinced of the move to be honest, and that's without a shred of LOI bias here. I'd like to see him hold out for a bigger move tbh. Rumoured interest from England and MLS too. Somewhat cliché by now, but somewhere like Belgium or Holland would be a far better suit for him.
I was slightly underwhelmed by the link to be honest, but it does represent a step up in standard, and the likes of Hungary, Finland. Norway, Slovakia and Greece are happy to call up players from the Cypriot First Division.
Kenny can get Mick to send reports. Or he can probably watch a stream if needs be.
Liechtenstein doesn't have a league btw, so while the LoI is behind it in the UEFA coefficients, it's not correct to imply we're behind the Liechtenstein league. Their coefficient is FC Vaduz, who are just a Swiss first/second tier side who happen to play in Liechtenstein.
APOEL are only 6/7 points off Europe less then half way through the season. Long way to go yet.
I think it's a clear step up for him. It's only a pity APOEL are out of Europe, because it is the kind of league where you may well find yourself moving on by the end of the season.