Jack Byrne (M Shamrock Rovers b.1996)

[Trequartista20]

He's certainly playing against a fair few part-timers though.

I remember reading a report a couple of years ago that stated that the majority of LoI players relied on a second job to survive - James Talbot, for example, is a postman. Players also complained about turning up to training feeling tired as a consequence, and not being able to commit to their sport as much as they would like. This isn't the case even at League Two level.

There's clearly question marks over the standard at which Byrne is operating.

[ColourfulPeanut]

You can continue saying Jack Byrne is playing against part-timers and it will continue not being true.

Every LOI player is a full time professional training 5 times a week so yeah?

[Diggs246]

Every LOI player is a full time professional training 5 times a week so yeah?

Full time professional means they only have one job and that is football and that is simply not correct

[ColourfulPeanut]

Full time professional means they only have one job and that is football and that is simply not correct

I know that, I was arguing that they're not full time professionals. They're part-time because they don't train or get paid to be full time.

[ontheotherhand]

I agree so much with the last paragraph. There are a multitude of arguments for and against Jack. He was released by Oldham. He didn't make it at Kilmarnock, Blackburn or Wigan. He's playing against lesser level players. On the other hand, he's the best player in the league. He executes pieces of world class individual skill. He looked comfortable against AC Milan's players.

The nature of the Byrne debate is divisive and his career so meandering that people will find evidence to support whatever point they want to make or whatever opinion they have.

Personally, I agree that the truth lies in the middle. I think he has traits that could help us immensely based on our lack of penetration against Bulgaria and Finland. I acknowledge that playing him, however, would represent a gamble as there is minimal evidence that he could hold his own. That makes it a little more frustrating for me that he wasn't played against Finland or Bulgaria.

All fair enough but I'd add that his journey through the clubs mentioned has been fairly well documented and it wasn't always a case of him not being at the standard. Lot's going on with each of those moves and there's rarely mention of his time at Cambuur where he was top quality at a very high level. It also doesn't factor in his age at the time of all these moves or his mental state during them. He is still only 24 and has developed his game every year. He isn't the finished article and we see him adding elements to his game all the time. He is also hungry and determined so this isn't a case of a young lad losing his love for the game and dropping down the leagues.

Everything else I agree with; he isn't playing against international calibre players in the LOI but did look comfortable against Milan, has been the best player on the pitch against lesser European opponents and did very well against Bulgaria.

Will he light it up and control the game like he does at home if given the chance? Realistically I don't think so, it's a huge step up. But I think he can also hold his own and be a valuable part of a team. He very rarely loses the ball - even against Milan he was holding off challenges, beating players and creating chances despite being regularly double teamed - and won't have to pull all the strings for Ireland with better players around him than he is used to. I'd love to see him get 20 minutes. As mentioned, it would be worth having him on just for corners with Duffy on the field. It's a shame he wasn't fit or in form when the Nations League games were on.

The best comparison we probably have is Hoolahan. Jack is around that level in the LOI (but maybe with the extra weight of his performances in the Eredivisie) and we know Hoolahan was good enough to do a job. Does Jack need to go up a few leagues and develop further first? Probably, but no harm getting him some more international experience on the way.

[Charlie Darwin]

Every LOI player is a full time professional training 5 times a week so yeah?

No, they're not all full-time but most are.

[Diggs246]

This is an interesting article on the subjust

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.iri...-pay-1.2886354

[ColourfulPeanut]

No, they're not all full-time but most are.

Where's your source on most are? Every source I've seen says the majority have another job to support themselves.

[Charlie Darwin]

Where's your source on most are? Every source I've seen says the majority have another job to support themselves.

Em, the players? Finn Harps and Bohs (although I think most of them solely earn from football) are the only part-time teams. Some of the younger players at a few clubs go to college. The rest train all week in the mornings. I'm sure your sources are fantastic but some of us actually follow the League of Ireland.

[nigel-harps1954]

Em, the players? Finn Harps and Bohs (although I think most of them solely earn from football) are the only part-time teams. Some of the younger players at a few clubs go to college. The rest train all week in the mornings. I'm sure your sources are fantastic but some of us actually follow the League of Ireland.

Most of Harps squad are full time. There's a handful of them have a second job but most of the squad have football as their only income.

[pineapple stu]

I'm sure your sources are fantastic but some of us actually follow the League of Ireland.

In fairness, a Fifpro survey for me trumps a random punter claiming extra knowledge because he's in the terraces each week.

Now if the Fifpro survey included First Division players (and I don't know if it does or not), then you've a valid counter-argument against it as the FD would certainly skew the results towards part-time players.

Edit - in fact, read the article (duh)...

It does include First Division players. In 2016 (when the survey dates from), the PD/FD split was 12 v 8 teams. So if you assume the players were split accordingly, and that all the FD players had second jobs, the report is saying that 40% of PD players also have second jobs. Which is still a lot.

If Limerick - splashing the cash in the FD that year - had some full-time players, then that would reduce the number of PD full-timers.

[ColourfulPeanut]

Em, the players? Finn Harps and Bohs (although I think most of them solely earn from football) are the only part-time teams. Some of the younger players at a few clubs go to college. The rest train all week in the mornings. I'm sure your sources are fantastic but some of us actually follow the League of Ireland.

I follow the League of Ireland too, way to have a superiority complex about it though. I'm just not incredibly biased towards it. The FIFPro survey trumps you I'm afraid.

I'm glad you seem to know every team and player personally to know their arrangements.

[nigel-harps1954]

A four year old survey reflects the current league situation?

[pineapple stu]

A four year old survey reflects the current league situation?

Better than someone saying "Yeah, but I watch the league", sure.

Let's be honest, the league has hardly improved financially since then.

[ColourfulPeanut]

A four year old survey reflects the current league situation?

100%. If anything in those 4 years the League's financial situation has declined. Cork City are a shell of what they were in 2016 as just one example

I like how I automatically don't follow the League of Ireland because I'm a realist about it's situation. I love the LOI and would love to see us compete with any league. It's just not the reality right now. Unfortunate situation is that players have to leave to play at a higher level and Byrne has yet to do that in his career.

[sadloserkid]

It doesn't automatically follow that because the overall standard of the league isn't close to international standard that EVERY player in the league isn't good enough either though. I would completely agree that playing in the English Championship is much better preparation for any player aspiring to regular international football than playing in the League of Ireland (or, for that matter, in the SPL) but Byrne shouldn't be dismissed solely on the basis of the league he plays in. He's an outlier certainly but there could be any reason why he's happy to stay at Rovers. A lack of footballing ambition might even be one of those reasons but that wouldn't prove he's not good enough at the moment either.

Similarly his English career isn't quite the barren wasteland painted above either - he played 44 times in a year with Oldham and there was, to my newfound knowledge today, plenty of complaints from their fans when he was frozen out and eventually released (not that League One football would necessarily settle the debate one way or the other). He looked up to the standard required when he played for Ireland thus far (albeit in friendlies) and that's surely more relevant than how he did at Wigan 4 years ago at this point?

Ultimately Byrne, realistically, is a marginal call. Somebody else said it above that they find it a little bit strange that anybody is getting so heated over his inclusion one way or the other and I'd be firmly in that camp myself.

[Diggs246]

I dont think he is good enough, but I'm just starting to wonder is there off field issues? Why is no one looking to sign him? It's a very real concern, it might be nothing of course.

[paul_oshea]

Em, the players? Finn Harps and Bohs (although I think most of them solely earn from football) are the only part-time teams. Some of the younger players at a few clubs go to college. The rest train all week in the mornings. I'm sure your sources are fantastic but some of us actually follow the League of Ireland.

You mean go to games?

[paul_oshea]

100%. If anything in those 4 years the League's financial situation has declined. Cork City are a shell of what they were in 2016 as just one example

I like how I automatically don't follow the League of Ireland because I'm a realist about it's situation. I love the LOI and would love to see us compete with any league. It's just not the reality right now. Unfortunate situation is that players have to leave to play at a higher level and Byrne has yet to do that in his career.

Come on over to the League of Ireland forum. Welcome.

[passinginterest]

I dont think he is good enough, but I'm just starting to wonder is there off field issues? Why is no one looking to sign him? It's a very real concern, it might be nothing of course.

Maybe because he's a homebird, who isn't in a hurry to go away again and clubs have been made aware? He seems to have had a really hard time mentally in the last few years he was away, if he's home and happy and values that more than money and career advancement could anyone really blame him?

I wouldn't be overly surprised to see him move at the end of the domestic season, and I'd be amaze if an agent couldn't get him a championship side if he really wanted it. He's probably more suited to playing somewhere like Holland again though and you'd have to think he has some sort of links and reputation there after performing solidly previously. I do get the feeling he's just in a good place at home though and he's not in any hurry to jump into a move away again.

I'm married to someone who could be offered the Euro millions jackpot tomorrow but if she was told she'd have to move away to claim it and wouldn't be able to see her family for weeks on end I can absolutely guarantee she'd turn it down. Home and family can be an unbelievably strong draw for some, especially if they've had a traumatic experience away.