Norn Iron rubbish part 23452346526

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Are you for real also? Ask the average unionist politician and they won't be emphasisng the 'I'-word!.

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Why do you keep mentioning politicians? Next you'll be telling us all FF voters are like Brian Cowen.

A politician will emphasise whatever they feel gets them elected, that does not mean that individuals dont consider themselves irish, as the Unionist posters on here have already told you.

Politicians don't define Irishness, and neither do you.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Need to come out of whatever Indo-like bubble yer inhabiting.....

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Pathetic attempt at generalisation.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Accepting that alone, If you want to be considered 'Irish', the unionists have to lose some of their many British symbols and whilst you may be willing to do this, suspect the majority don't or won't. And moderating your tone about flags and anthems if you want to be taken seriously as being 'Irish'. Which ultimately won't happen.
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You're jsut funny at this stage.

Taken seriously as Irish :D :rolleyes:

taught this was a football forum?:confused:

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Originally Posted by Gather round

There are a lot of stirrers and wind-ups about...

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Hmm. Of which you're one!

But more seriously, all we wanted on Wednesday night was a level playing field. which we didn't get. And suspect we wouldn't have had, regardless.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Are you for real also? Ask the average unionist politician and they won't be emphasisng the 'I'-word! Need to come out of whatever Indo-like bubble yer inhabiting.....

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It's in the interest of the politicians in the DUP, the UUP, Sinn Féin (and to a lesser extent the SDLP) to preserve the Irish - British dichotomy in Northern Ireland. In my opinion these parties have nothing to them apart from claiming to represent one of the two ethno-national communities. Therefore it's in the interest of the DUP to play the British identity card as it's in the interest of Sinn Féin to play to their Irish constituents. If a plural Northern Irish identity developed in the province, and with it normal politics - political parties fighting over normal issues - then the likes of Adams, Robinson, McGuinness and Dodds are out of a job. If the DUP, UUP and SF were abolished in the morning and Adams, Robinson and the others were running on Labour or Conservative tickets I'm sure they wouldn't be too slow about reaching out to voters on the other side.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Accepting that alone, If you want to be considered 'Irish', the unionists have to lose some of their many British symbols and whilst you may be willing to do this, suspect the majority don't or won't. And moderating your tone about flags and anthems if you want to be taken seriously as being 'Irish'. Which ultimately won't happen.

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:eek:

More BNP like ramblings.:rolleyes:

I'll not be losing anything, thanks.

If your idea of "Uniting" anything is to continue espousing this sort of bigotry, you will be sorely disappointed.

But, sure, keep banging your head....

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Originally Posted by micls

Why do you keep mentioning politicians?

A politician will emphasise whatever they feel gets them elected, that does not mean that individuals dont consider themselves irish, as the Unionist posters on here have already told you.

Politicians don't define Irishness, and neither do you.
Pathetic attempt at generalisation.

You're jsut funny at this stage.

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Surely the last phrase is an apt description for your good self.

But if there's no political will to change the leaders stance of the last 40 years or so, then I rest my case. If you chose to ignore that, more fool you!

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Surely the last phrase is an apt description for your good self.

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Yeah, imagine respecting others right to be a different kind of Irish than I am. Madness.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

But if there's no political will to change the leaders stance of the last 40 years or so, then I rest my case. If you chose to ignore that, more fool you!

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What case? You mean your claim that because politicians use their britishness to win votes means none of them are Irish? As I said, laughable.

[QUOTE=Gather round;1280377]Totally deserved? You went into the game needing to either a) score at least two goals or b) win the lottery of a shoot-out. You couldn't manage the first- and Gallas's goal didn't actually add to the target, 2-1 would have been as good as 2-0- and no-one knows what would have happened during penalties. So get a sense of perspective, eh?

When you stop stirring it- over and over again on this thread alone- I'll gracefully dismount and stop pontificating (not that I'd started, but I realise you may be a bit tired and emotional). See you at the Euro 2012 draw for more analysis. [QUOTE]


I feel i've been pretty reasoned in my arguments and have accepted and taken yours on board throughout this discussion. My last post was in response to your bitter and totally unnecessary comment about what happened Ireland last week. You're in the minority (of world football supporters) if you think that Ireland don't deserve to be at the world cup. And you haughtely dismiss other posters as sh!t stirrers (admittedly there are some) while coming out with a statement like a 'bunch of crybabies'. Get off the pot son.

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

It's in the interest of the politicians in the DUP, the UUP, Sinn Féin (and to a lesser extent the SDLP) to preserve the Irish - British dichotomy in Northern Ireland. In my opinion these parties have nothing to them apart from claiming to represent one of the two ethno-national communities. Therefore it's in the interest of the DUP to play the British identity card as it's in the interest of Sinn Féin to play to their Irish constituents. If a plural Northern Irish identity developed in the province, and with it normal politics - political parties fighting over normal issues - then the likes of Adams, Robinson, McGuinness and Dodds are out of a job. If the DUP, UUP and SF were abolished in the morning and Adams, Robinson and the others were running on Labour or Conservative tickets I'm sure they wouldn't be too slow about reaching out to voters on the other side.

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Exactamundo. But that pluralist identity won't happen in the short-term. Though maybe could send a message to the bunkers in Belfast &, er, Cork (well one person)to tell them so....

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

But more seriously, all we wanted on Wednesday night was a level playing field. which we didn't get. And suspect we wouldn't have had, regardless.

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You should have kicked up an almighty stink when the play offs were "seeded". Disgraceful.

The ref (and officials) made a mistake on Wednesday. A ref made a mistake when awarding you a penalty against Georgia - and against Spain in 2002.

Refs make mistakes all the time - throughout the world. They are human beings.

A ref and linesman made a big mistake when we played France in Spain in 1982 - but, hey, I'm over it.

**** happens - it will continue to happen.

Some you win, some you lose.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Exactamundo. But that pluralist identity won't happen in the short-term. Though maybe could send a message to the bunkers in Belfast &, er, Cork (well one person)to tell them so....

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Who has said differently? Once again, what a politician says does not equal what a voter is/wants. If you think it does then you mustn't have much of an opinion at all of People from ROI.

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Originally Posted by micls

What case? You mean your claim that because politicians use their britishness to win votes means none of them are Irish? As I said, laughable.

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Clearly you are rather simple in this respect. Read up what Unionist politicians say about the nature of 'Irishness' and as I said earlier to everyone, let me know if you ever find anything!
The reason they are continually mentioned and until, as HS says, there's a groundswell for a different sort of politics in the North those people will continue as for the last century or so to represent the unionist constituency......

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

You should have kicked up an almighty stink when the play offs were "seeded". Disgraceful.

Refs make mistakes all the time - throughout the world. They are human beings.

Some you win, some you lose.

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We did. So bring in video replays. And yes. But there's already a hundred other threads about that. I'm talking about an All-Ireland team, not indulging you about FIFA's f*ck-wittery.....

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Clearly you are rather simple in this respect. Read up what Unionist politicians say about the nature of 'Irishness' and as I said earlier to everyone, let me know if you ever find anything!

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It is true - Unionist politicians do not subscribe to your, myopic, view of Irishness ie. "pure" Irishness, Gaelic Irishness, Republican Irishness.

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Originally Posted by micls

Who has said differently? Once again, what a politician says does not equal what a voter is/wants. If you think it does then you mustn't have much of an opinion at all of People from ROI.

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Doh, it's the same for voters anywhere. Read up about the North before you claim to know about it, at least.....the politicians there are setting or acting on agendas determined by those who vote or are politically active!

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Originally Posted by Scooby Doo

Interesting piece NB but i wonder, and i'm just being the devil's advocate here, is the notion of dual identity not more likely to be adopted by solely the unionist population more so than the nationalists who i would imagine would describe themselves as 'purely Irish'? I am not trying to get a rise out of anyone here, merely genuinely interested.

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Check out John Coakley (2007) 'National identity in Northern Ireland: stability or change?' or the Northern Ireland Life and Times Surveys.

In 1999, 40% of Catholics (not the same as nationalists I know) identified 'strongly' as Northern Irish with a further 32% 'weakly' and the remainder 'not at all'. 73% identified 'strongly' as Irish. You can obviously feel both Irish and Northern Irish, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

We did. So bring in video replays. And yes. But there's already a hundred other threads about that. I'm talking about an All-Ireland team, not indulging you about FIFA's f*ck-wittery.....

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Sorry - I was responding, directly, to YOUR post about Wednesday.

The "All Ireland" team thing is now done to death. You have one. There is another international team on the island - Northern Ireland.

We'll be around for many years to come.

Good luck with yours.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

It is true - Unionist politicians do not subscribe to your, myopic, view of Irishness ie. "pure" Irishness, Gaelic Irishness, Republican Irishness.

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Because they don't subscribe to any notion of such.....:rolleyes:
Which is fair enough as they keep telling everyone about their other more 'well-known' identity. At least they're consistent.

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

Check out John Coakley (2007) 'National identity in Northern Ireland: stability or change?' or the Northern Ireland Life and Times Surveys.

In 1999, 40% of Catholics (not the same as nationalists I know) identified 'strongly' as Northern Irish with a further 32% 'weakly' and the remainder 'not at all'. 73% identified 'strongly' as Irish. You can obviously feel both Irish and Northern Irish, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

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Read then up when I have time HS. Interested to see their surveying technique but met very few Northern nats.who would accept themselves as 'Northern Irish', though bizarrely one or two would would support the team, to 'dilute' what they saw as a more malevolent influence on itn elsewhere.
Am guessing a little of it, as being 'northern Irish', would come out of the siege mentality which people of all identies saw themselves under in the North.....

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

Check out John Coakley (2007) 'National identity in Northern Ireland: stability or change?' or the Northern Ireland Life and Times Surveys.

In 1999, 40% of Catholics (not the same as nationalists I know) identified 'strongly' as Northern Irish with a further 32% 'weakly' and the remainder 'not at all'. 73% identified 'strongly' as Irish. You can obviously feel both Irish and Northern Irish, it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.

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I've no doubt thats true. Come to think of an example of my own family, i've cousin from Newry who supports the ROI national team and also buys NI shirts. I asked him why he has both and he simply replied that he lived in NI and felt part of both. Which is fair enough.
But good post Holiday.