Eg What Are Gibson's "political/non-footballing" Motives For Playing For Us And Not Your Lot??
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Eg What Are Gibson's "political/non-footballing" Motives For Playing For Us And Not Your Lot??
I thought thats what the army did 38 years ago?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
So what you're saying [emboldened] is that the IFA should spend their scarce resources developing young players so that they (the players) may then opt to play for another Association, should it suit them?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I'm sorry, but notwithstanding the right within the Rules of any youngster to switch, that's not what I pay my admission or membership money to the IFA for - and I would say that equally in respect of players who wish to switch to ROI, England or any other Association.
[QUOTE=EalingGreen;759889]EG you are the one who comes on here talking about NI being the successor to the team , or indeed the continuation of the team prior to 1921 or 1950 and you dotn know what flag they played under ???Quote:
Originally Posted by eelmonster
[QUOTE=RogerMilla;759940]sure the mans a muppet i've said it for months! how anyone can have as much time as that to post such diatribe on numerous forums is beyond me!Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Sophistry of the highest order. How can Ravenhill not be in Ireland?Quote:
Originally Posted by eelmonster
I'm talking sport chum.:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
lol sorry, just having the craic with ya!!! Last day at work, no court attendance and off to majorca on monday, I am ON IT!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Putting interpretations of FIFA rules aside.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I can respect any NI born Irish National choosing to play for the NI team. I don't see real substance with politics coming into the equation. I can imagine they are very proud to represent NI.
Do you respect an NI born Irish National's decision to choose the Irish team?
Enjoy your holiday.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
Good lad - I like to see foot.e boys keeping out of trouble - please also keep up the good behaviour when you get back.Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
I imagine they would answer with "it's not about whether we have respect for his decision. It's about whether it's valid under FIFA's elegibility rules".:DQuote:
Originally Posted by geysir
nbQuote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Are you that well known troll who spends his life online touring sites using various names/handles.(including owc site) :confused:
You sound very like him.
LMFAOQuote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
I'm not quite sure what you're after with your question, but my point is that I am not entirely persuaded about Gibson's motives for adopting his "ROI or nothing" stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by livehead1
On the one hand, I can quite understand why someone who comes from a Nationalist background like his would prefer to play for the ROI over NI. I've no problem with such an aspiration and assuming he's eligible, then I wish him good luck (except if he should ever play against NI, that is!).
However, whilst a preference towards ROI is one thing, antipathy towards NI, even if that were the only option for international football open to him, is something else. And I can only conclude that his opposition to playing for NI is at least in part politically-motivated. Otherwise, why are the majority of other players from a Nationalist background, whether with the choice to represent ROI or not, still prepared to represent NI?
If I am correct in my surmising, then fair enough, he's entitled to believe whatever the hell he likes, but imo he is a lesser person for it than other (Nationalist) players who do not let personal political convictions cloud their reasoning over footballing issues. Or lesser than the likes of Alan Kernaghan. Or indeed, lesser than those northern Unionists (myself included), who always trooped to Lansdowne in their thousands to watch Ireland play, irrespective of the fact that it was under a flag (Tricolour) and to an anthem (Soldiers Song) which does not in any way represent our tradition on this island.
Having said all that, othere are one or two other aspects of this which don't quite fit. For one thing, DG was happy enough originally to represent NI in under-age football. Which in itself wouldn't necessarily mean anything, except that he has also mentioned previously that he fell out with an IFA coach who wanted him to play for NI at a time when MU were ofering him a trial. Why should that be pertinent, if he was always only ever going to represent ROI in the long term, anyhow?
And one other minor point is that a significant number of those youngsters currently switching from NI to ROI come from Derry, like Gibson. Which is understandable enough, seeing as how it's a Nationalist town, on the border, with its senior team playing in the Eircom. Except that DG is actually a product of Institute FC, the club from the "other" side of the river.
Anyhow, now that I've answered as best I can your question, Livehead, is there any chance you'll answer mine from yesterday? You know, when I asked you to find the post where you say I accused you of being a "bigot" , on account of your signature? :rolleyes:
I know that the NI team administered by the IFA is the successor to the Ireland team administered by, ahem, the IFA, since it's pretty damned obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
But I don't know what flag, if any, flew over Windsor, Solitude, North, Lansdowne etc when Ireland were playing internationals 86+ years ago, since I'm not old enough* to have attended. I am, however, capable of disabusing those misinformed individuals who seem to think that the Union Flag currently flies over Windsor...
* - And even if I were, I'd probably be incapable of remembering ;)
I had hoped I had made it perfectly clear in my previous posts, but I completely understand and respect an NI-born Nationalist's aspirations to represent the ROI and providing they comply with all of FIFA's eligibility criteria, then good luck to them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
That includes Gibson, even despite the fact of his "ROI or nothing stance", which I can only conclude must not only be pro-ROI, but at least partly anti-NI in motivation. Indeed, if he should be ruled ineligible for ROI, and were prepared to change his mind about NI (however unlikely), I would not hold this against him.
Rather, I would leave it to the NI manager to determine, on footballing grounds, whether he should be selected or not.
That's a bit rich tbh EO - I think I have expressed my disapppointment at the celebratory stance you and your buddies adopt when Ireland lose, go through a hard time (plenty for you to celebrate I grant), drop in the rankings etc etc. Would you therefore concede that your antipathy is politically motiovated.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
And to be fair I've not heard anything negative about NI from Gibson, only positive feelings for Ireland. You are looking for a political slant to justify the suite of unhealthy views you have built.
I'd always rooted for the North in the past, but the level of antipathy (& worse) from you guys makes it very hard to warm to supporters of your team.
And you would "imagine" completely wrongly, Maroon 7, at least as regards this poster, to whom Geysir's question was originally directed (see Post# 514)Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroon 7
Ealing G in your answer you neglected to read and comprehend the conditional "Putting interpretations of FIFA rules aside."
I would say the likely interpretation is that the "Ireland or Nobody" is a reaction to the IFA and team Manager public bleating about Darron and his choice.
It has affected him and his family.
Yeah - there's an obvious fear amongst the North's support that Gibson could be the thin end of the wedge re dual eligibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I think the "Ireland or nobody" comment was probably made in exasperation and in an attempt to categorically reaffirm his desire to take up his birth right and play for Ireland.
Sorry but I totally refuse to believe that one of our politicians took credit for something he didn't do. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I can only speak for myself, not my "buddies". But any "antipathy" I feel towards the ROI is based on two things, neither of them political.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
The first is all part of the normal rivalry and banter which goes on between football fans i.e. after years of having to endure jokes and digs when we were s hite and you were flying high, it's nice now that the pendulum has swung the other way and we can return the favour. I intend to make the most of it, before it swings back again (as it no doubt will). As such, if you think I give your lot a hard time, you should hear the fun I've been having with my England pals (and fellow Brits!) over that night, nearly two years ago!
The second is a degree of resentment at the FAI having unilaterally decided to break the decades old "Gentlemens' Agreement" and start selecting NI-born players. Worse still, I mistrust them when they say that they never approach players, only respond when approached, since at least two players (Baird & McKenna) have given the lie to that.
Anyhow, that resentment is not politically-motivated, since I would say the exact same if we were similarly treated by any other Association anywhere else in the world. If you want a clearer exposition for my motivation in this respect, see Post #350 on this thread.
Agree - can you imagine "my first choice is Ireland, however despite the assurances from FIFA, and my own certainty regarding eligibility, I'd quite like to keep the door open to play for the North in the event of successful lobbying by zealous unionists".Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Well on point 2 the political world has changed and now NI born players, can rightly, play for their country: Ireland. So objectively that "Gentlemens' Agreement" is well & truly defunct, not least cos it is decades old - & reflected an era when nationalists were the underdogs!Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Though I'd be inclined to be more open and encourage them to approach likely recruits, & be open about it.
Except that he originally stated his "ROI or nothing" stance before the recent pronouncements by Wells and Worthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
And as for it "affecting his family", I can see how it might be irritating for them. However, can you not see where Wells and Worthy are coming from?
As Wolfie has alluded to, Wells's and the IFA's concern is that if this is not challenged, then it could lead to NI losing significant numbers of other players from what is already a small enough pool. Any Association is going to do exactly the same, should it consider that Regulations may be being broken. And Wells has said several times that it is nothing personal against DG.
As for Worthington, rather than conducting a "witchhunt" against DG, as some posters on here would have it, he is merely saying to DG that should he prove ineligible for the ROI (as the IFA thinks he may be), we will not exclude him from an international career entirely (subject to the player's agreement, of course).
As such, Worthy is only doing what most new managers do when they take over (Stan, for example) in seeking to select from the widest possible choice of players. If he or the IFA were the politically or sectarian-motivated bigots that some here would have us believe, surely their response to DG would be: "Don't think we'll have you back if you lose your case with FIFA"? :eek:
Wipe the political mud from your eyesight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
No "fear" whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
All that matters is that Northern Ireland only field players who are totally committed to doing their very best for Northern Ireland.
If there are those in our ranks who don't give 100% for the shirt, get rid of them I say.
Those players eligible to play for Northern Ireland who don't wish to, for whatever reason, are no loss at all.
Give me a limited player with a burning desire to succeed with Northern Ireland over a gifted player whose heart isn't in it every time.
Fighting over players who don't want to play for you is, frankly, rather stupid in my opinion.
Concentrate on those players who are totally committed, and develop accordingly, is how I want to see things going forward.
Onwards and Upwards, as the saying goes.
I can of course see where they are coming from - but there are some things bigger and more important than even football. He, Wells & Co should not be seeking to undo the right to self determination agreed for the people for the North.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I accept Worthys motivation is purely football (though I think ill advised), but it does stir up a lot of bad feelings, hatred (& potentially worse) which he would have been all to well aware of.
Nonsense. All it takes is an anoydyne statement from DG along the lines of "ROI is my preferred choice and since I am informed by the FAI that I am eligible, that's all I'm concentrating on".Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
After all, it looks as if Tony Kane managed not to "burn his boats" in similar circumstances.
So you would agree with the statement to which this was a retort - that Gibson was politically motivated by stating "Ireland or no one"Quote:
Originally Posted by fhtb
Wipe it from yours
no chance , those are the fellas we're after!! :p;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
That's a new one. So I guess we've no need to pay taxes to Her Majesty's Government anymore? Why didn't anyone tell us this soonerQuote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
But I want all our players to want to play for us & no one else & to say it - it's exactly the spirit we need, & I don't think he has anything to apologise for.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I don't want us to be his "preferred choice" - I want to be his only choice. Which is what he said.
eh , i think some people have been trying to !Quote:
Originally Posted by fhtb
Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
:D You haven't qualified yet - and it's not that long ago since you went 2 years without scoring a goal! However, DH has changed all that, he's without doubt the Premiership signing of the summer.
He may be politically motivated, he may not. Either way it doesn't mean objectors are 'zealous unionists'. Wise the bap likeQuote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
How likely is that to happen given where he grew up and who he represented at underage level?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
Didn't let me in on it. I'm going to put my new-found right to self determination to good use, and set up my own Republic, zero tax rate. You can join if you want, but only if you declare an 'aspiration' to play for my football teamQuote:
Originally Posted by RogerMilla
don't worry about passports, I can issue those to whoever I want, we can call it your birthright or something :rolleyes:
bet you'd give san marino a game!Quote:
Originally Posted by fhtb