Ah, right. I do apologise.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
We are indirectly affected by the decision though-Celtic Cup anyone? :p
Printable View
Ah, right. I do apologise.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
We are indirectly affected by the decision though-Celtic Cup anyone? :p
Sky Sports News claims Venables met the FAI today.
Only a 30 second piece saying they met and that sources say Venables is keen for another job at the highest level and that money is not an issue for the FAI.
Other things that aren't an issue for the FAI are seemingly : credibility, common sense, or the wishes of anyone in Ireland who's name doesn't start with "John" and end with "Delaney"Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Just one question, (in all seriousness) :
Everyone is entitled to an opinion on the manager, but do the folk who are voting 'yes' to Venables in the poll really believe that he is, without a shadow of a doubt, "Just what we need" , or is it some kind o' protest vote, or a "yes with a but"?
Maybee there was a wine bar around the corner from Hacketts.
Stutts, are you sure you didn't mix the reports that the FAI met and Venables is interested?
Positive, until you planted doubt in my mind. Pretty sure.
If Venables was offered the job you can be sure all betting woud have been suspended. It would be like Arry returning to Portsmouth. Every one of Tels mates would be laying big bucks on him getting the job. But we know the FAI contacted TV on Saturday. And then met him today. But still nothing concrete about offering him the job. Hopefully they are going to interview every worthwhile candidate and then decide.
Great point Noely
I voted yes, not necessarily as he is without a shadow of doubt the best possible manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondvillain
Realistic candidates are
Venables
Hodgson
Houllier
Souness
Brady
I woujld like O'Leary to be on that list but there we go, of these the only one I'd be passionatley in favour of is Houllier. I'd have Hodgson and Venables on the same level and Souness just above Brady at the bottom. At this stage I'm just happy to see a professional experienced manager getting the job. My biggest concern with Venables is his attention.
I think there is a bit of an unthinking backlash against Venables, based on his character, Dunphy's attack and obviously his recent record. But when I see people suggesting that they would rather John Aldridge then I do despair a bit.
Thats what I thought. You've made valid points, but have admitted to clicking "YES , HE IS JUST WHAT WE NEED" when you apparently, on the above , don't really think that at all. You voted yes as you consider Venables should be considered, but is not the man for the job, and possibly as a protest vote against someone who reckons Aldridge would be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavan_fan
I dont personally agree with the Aldridge thing, even though I DO think that , unlike Venables, he'd at least look upon the Irish job as more than a hobby, and as a consequence, should be interviewed accordingly as part of a fair and balanced and most importantly wide ranging selection process which included all interested & qualified applicants,(hopefully including some headhunted genuine world class managers) and NOT as part of some jolly boys do with a pre-determined conclusion.
("Here's the plan boys. We do 20 balanced and fair interviews, then announce Terry has the job. Ok?")
And , really though, If there is a public backlash against Venables, it's only right that it would be based on His character, Dunphy's criticism (I do not , in this case subscribe to the "My enemy's enemy is my friend" argument), and most importantly his recent record. What else would an Anti Venables backlash be based on if not his character, his percieved flaws and his record?
The arguments contained within all of those aforementioned points are enough put me off him as a valid candidate. If that makes me unthinking, fair enough. I still dont want him.
i'd rather venables than aldridge but its a non argument because alridge is not being considered
I wouldn't prefer to see John Aldridge get the job. I would prefer to see John Sheridan get it though
It's not my team, so it's not for me to cast a vote (either way). Which you'd have seen if you'd bothered to View the Results. T wat. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy
on somebody elseQuote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Venners is out to 21/20 on Betfair on the day he met the FAI! The big mover is Haan into 17/2 2nd favourite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
It gets better, just got this in an email from Arie Haan's agent/pr company. It was in the junk folder and was sent late on Wednesday night
Arie Haan's agent today urged Irish football fans to unite behind his candidate for the Irish manager's job.
"It's time to break with the past and move on from the age of the gaffer to the 'Haan Dynasty'," said the Hong Kong based sports agent, Mark It gets better, just got this in an email from Arie Haan's agent/pr company. It was in the junk folder.
Arie Haan's agent today urged Irish football fans to unite behind his candidate for the Irish manager's job.
"It's time to break with the past and move on from the age of the gaffer to the 'Haan Dynasty'," said the Hong Kong based sports agent, Mark Mullan.
Mr Mullan, who submitted the Holland legend's application to the FAI on Wednesday, is urging fans to unite behind the Dutchman in order to avoid 'another managerial fiasco:
"It's not too late if we act now. Terry Venables may be popular with some people, but there is also a lot of discontent out there. A lot of people want a clean break with the style of the past. And Arie Haan is the perfect man for the job -- a combination of experience, success and tactical mastery."
Haan, who was in Beijing Wednesday to offer advice to the Chinese Football Association, said the Irish job would be perfect for him.
"I have always admired the fighting spirit of the Irish, but the current squad also has some gifted technical players. I think I could really turn things around," said Haan in a statement issued via his media representative.
"Ireland has its own particular style. But I am from Holland, where we have different ideas on how to play. If we can match the two styles, I think it would be perfect.
"As a player, I played against Liam Brady and George Best and had the highest respect for them. I know that Best played for Northern Ireland, but the attitude was the same. Both were gentlemen. My agent and spokesperson are Irish, so I know I can definitely work with the Irish. And I love the fans."
In a number of interviews on Wednesday, Haan reiterated his interest in a new challenge, after quitting as Cameroon boss in February:
"I am itching to get involved in management again and work in Europe," said the Stuttgart-based Dutchman, who speaks fluent English.
"There are a lot of top candidates for this job. But all I can say is that I bring a lot of experience and success, and maybe it's also time for Ireland to have a continental coach.
"If you keep the same mentality not much will change. Also, to win, the players need a coach and staff around them who know what it is to win. And all my life I have won a lot more than I lost," said the five-time European Cup winner and veteran of two World Cup finals.
I agree, it IS a non argument, and that was my point about the Poll. People are saying yes to Venables despite them thinking that someone else would be the correct man for the job simply because it's a yes or no choice..Quote:
Originally Posted by eekers
The major fear we seem to have is that NO-ONE is being considered by the FAI except Venables. While that would no doubt have Dion Fanning and Paul Hyland (and maybe even some journalists too) wahnking into their chardonnay at El Tel's unveiling as the new "Air-Uh" manager down in Break for the Border, it frankly leaves me cold.
Some hint from a non-mutant in the FAI's employ, suggesting that ALL avenues regarding hiring a truly competent manager are being explored would be welcome.
soccerc have you any inside info on what is going on? Are Howe and Givens definetely 2 of the 3?
i posted that up on the haan thread - pretty laughable stuff i thoughtQuote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
Me? I know nothing :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
As for what's going on, no, but then again I don't think the left hand knows what the right hand is doing either.
All I can say is that I believe outside forces are manipulating this whole process for whatever reasons and that the dynamic changes daily if not hourly.
It'll all end in tears regardless whether that's next week or next year.
Hopefully someone will expose the whole charade
It all sounds like a Monty Phython sketch.Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
I think we need a better poll, containing the real candidates. Any chance of having a first, second, third choice???Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondvillain
Thats it Bosnich has given his seal of approval.
http://sport.guardian.co.uk/smalltal...219477,00.html
I really did not see anything special with Dunphy's tirade against Venables.
A balanced presentation of a coach's credentials has much more real credibility. A total fanatic biased argument for or against a candidate looks weak.
And screaming his Rod Liddle moralising lines was Dunphy at his pathetic worst.
It's not a court battle.
There was nobody on that program presenting Venables as the next messiah.
It was okay with most people because they happen to agree with Dunphy, then the flip side is when its vindictive and poisonous personal tirades against the team, the managment, as we have seen over 20 years.
He says:Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
"I wanted to tell you that if there's a chance of getting him, Ireland should seize it with both hands. He's a great manager - in fact, he's a great man.":eek:
And there's me thinking that Bosnich had quit using the halluciagenic powder!;)
Are you me in disguise ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Drug using, (alleged) girfriend beating failed soccer star recommends Venables.
joke......someone start a petition!
How about
We need meat not vegtables.
No, but there has been an overwhelming media campaign advocating Venables based on very flimsy evidence. This media campaign has also sought to undermine the opinions of those who don't agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Dunphy put the case against Venables based on reasonable evidence. Most of what he said was said here by me, D69er and many others.
Attack the argument, not the man presenting it.
Funny thing is, if TV did get the job he'd probably be the most experienced manager ever to have the job. I just think we can do better and should aim for better.
I'm attacking Dunphy´s tabloid style of argument not Dunphy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Can´t you see the difference.
His personalised attacks on Venables, a la Rod Little.
His fanatic one sided arguments.
Objectivly looking at that program, I would value, as having a ton more weight, Giles's reservations about Venables.
He won't be able to focus on the job.
Either way the substance of his argument (whether you were attacking him or his presentational style - personally I thought it wasn't clear) holds water. Giles's concern is valid but on the positive side Giles was acting more on a hunch based on what "people" had told him. I just hope any appointment is based on a rigourous and thought out assessment of candidates' merits and demerits.
Separately, what's this supposed to mean (Emmet Malone in Irish Times today):
Although Delaney has repeatedly stressed that the association's aim is to have the new man in place in time for the friendly against Brazil in early February, it is anticipated that after this afternoon's meeting [with the selection panel] is out of the way, the panel members could meet with the Londoner within a matter of days and, theoretically at least, an appointment could quite easily be made before Christmas.
Is this trying to imply that the panel is almost certain to recommend Venables, or is part in emboldened print just mischief making?
[quote=cavan_fan;829099]
I'm not saying Venables is the messiah but I think he is one of a number of candidates who passes the basic qualifications. I agree Hodgson does too, but I feel not enough is made of the fact that when given major club jobs he has been unsuccesful. Also his only experience with 'British' style players is not great.
/QUOTE]
Not sure what you mean that is record was not great with British style players. He got Blackburn to the Uefa cup one season and then the next they had a poor start and he was sacked in much the same way that Martin Jol was sacked this year, Brian Kidd took over and they got relegated. It would be like sacking Mark Hughes next season if they have a poor start. Does that make Mark Hughes a bad manager.
In addition I would argue that many of our midfielders are not the typical British style player in that Ireland, Reid, Miller Duff McGeady do not fall into this category. I dont think your points stand up to be honest.
The other major club he managed and he got Inter to a Uefa Cup Final and respective finishes in the league.
Finally we are not a major club, we are a mid ranking European International team and his record with such teams, is
2 qualifactions and 1 near miss or 32 games played 4 losses. To put that into perspective, Ireland lost 3 games from 12 in the last campaign.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I think he is saying that they are going to meet Venables this week and if that goes well theoretically they could appoint him before Christmas. I don't think this is going to happen as they are going to have to chat or interview other people than Terry Venables in my view. I am actually quietly confident that Venables will not get the job.
If a microphone is stuck under a players nose and asked what do you think of Terry Venables then I'd regard that as having no value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
With Giles, he talks football with a lot of people, he has his hunches and his instincts but they are coming out of a place with decades of experience with playing and coaching at high enough levels.
It has value when he has discussed Venables's coaching credibility with players and other coaches and got their unsolicited opinions. Giles can discriminate the merits of those opinions.
That Venables can coach is supported by many in the game.
That too many self interests get in the way of him doing the job with the dedication it deserves is imo the biggest evident negative on EL Tels cv.
The nature of the Irish job allows him free range to continue with his outside interests.
He should stick with the business interests imo.
Do we know if he's done that?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
You see what I'm getting at here? I'm in no way convinced that those advocating, or even cautiously positive on, Venables have done any degree of due diligence.
Players seem to respect Venables and I dont think we would have a problem with players not wanting to play a la S. Ireland.On the other hand he seems to have the attn span of a flea and never sees projects through to the end.
Its easy to tell when Giles hasn´t a clue what he is talking about.
He´ll resort to a stock phrase after a few ehhs.
if he gets the job i'll be known as "backtothechaironitvbetweenjimrozenthalandandytown send"
Here's Liam Mackey's view on Venables (positive) in today's Examiner. He puts forward a decent case.
Worth putting up here to add to the debate.
http://www.examiner.ie/irishexaminer...343-qqqx=1.asp
If Venables gets it so be it, and as Mackey says it's not an exact science, he may well do a good job - he's bound to be an improvement - but the "process" stinks. It's like reading about the elections in some dodgy African backwater.