Paul McShane

Trap will go for Paul McShane.

Why? "the little things" - Trap will not make any widespread changes to the team, any changes made will be kept to a minimum. McShane is a player he is familiar with and that has been around since Trap's appointment.

It was interesting to see that he chose to use McShane as a sub in the Georgian game. I thought that substitution was unnecessary but I think it was Trap's way of saying to McShane you're outside the starting 11 now but you're still in my plans and I trust in your abilities.

I'd leave Dunne / O'Shea at centre half in order to allow that partnership every chance of developing to its full potential.

I'd be more comfortable with O'Brien filling in at right full for the Cyprus game.

I think O'Brien is more composed on the ball in comparison to McShanes "Braveheart" footballing style.

Joey O'Brien has been playing centre midfield for Bolton this season, and has been ever since Megson took over. I don't think he's ever played right full for Ireland, and putting him in there for the Cyprus game is a bigger risk than playing Foley IMO.
O'Shea and Dunne have been solid so far, with O'Shea playing better than he has ever done for Ireland. I know I've harped on about this before, but Kerr's first big mistake was making unforced changes against Israel at home when 2-0 up, moving Duff up front, Kilbane to the left, and introducing Kavanagh. With Trapattoni's experience, I can't see him making the same mistake.
Trapattoni clearly rates McShane ahead of the injured Kelly, so I think it'll be him who starts. If Foley excels in training in the run to the game, he may come on as a late subsitute. As ifk101 pointed out above, this would be the same confidence booster for him, as the late introduction for McShane was against Georgia.
Foley may get a run in the Poland game in November, but not beforehand, and I'd still start with Kelly, if he's available. Finnan can have the night off, he will be needed for bigger games in the new year

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

If Foley excels in training in the run to the game...

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Or the game against Forest!!

I also see Trapp going with McShane despite what I believe...

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

Or the game against Forest!!

I also see Trapp going with McShane despite what I believe...

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Good to see McShane part of a defence which again didn't concede a goal.

mcshane hasnt given young a sniff.

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Originally Posted by irishultra

mcshane hasnt given young a sniff.

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Haven't watched the match but 2 comments from a neutral thread of Celtic fans:

"McShane is garbage."

"McShane is brutal. "


Any reason for those comments on today's performance or is a case of people exaggerating a McShane mistake as usual? :)

few rash tackles but he was solid, well to my eyes anyway,

For what it is worth Paul is in the Actim top 100 at no 67.
I don't know how it is compiled, but it is based upon every match he play and
I doubt the compilers have any particular bias towards him.
Andy O Brien is also in there.

Just watched the game there.

Struggled in the first half a bit, but settled as the game went on.

Was solid defensively, but very poor on the ball. Poor crossing and passing in general.

Pretty much why he's a centre half tbh. He's a defender and nothing more. Full backs these days are more about attacking than defending.

sunderland have recalled him from his loan spell at hull

He played centre half last night for Hull. I only literally caught the last few minutes but the commentater said he was "Solid All Night"..... I still don't know how anyone sees him at right full.

Surprised to hear he was recalled. Will be interesting.

I bet he won't be too pleased if he is recalled and ends up sitting on the bench :)
Mind you, he is Sunderland's second best player according to Actim to 100, and Hull's 5th best, and Irelands 4th for that matter (excludes Championship players)

I think people should make a judgement with their own eyes as opposed to the Actim 100.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I think people should make a judgement with their own eyes as opposed to the Actim 100.

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Unfortunately it is not possible to watch every player in every match with your own eyes thats why they use many people to do it.
It's easy to have one bad (or good) match cloud your judgement.
It does seem to reflect most peoples opinons quite accurately though and people who are generally beleived to be playing well tend to be at the top.
I actually think it is a very good form guide.

As I said in the Irish abroad thread. Hull's only 2 clean sheets since October have been McShane's 2 games at centre half against Newcastle. And Newcastle have very rarely been kept scoreless this season.

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Unfortunately it is not possible to watch every player in every match with your own eyes thats why they use many people to do it.
It's easy to have one bad (or good) match cloud your judgement.
It does seem to reflect most peoples opinons quite accurately though and people who are generally beleived to be playing well tend to be at the top.
I actually think it is a very good form guide.

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As a form guide - fair enough.

I have to admit, I know next to nothing about the actim 100 - does it have any pretentions above being anything but a form guide?

I just think such stat gathering doesn't provide a true practical worth (or lack of) of a player and what he can contribute to a team ethic.

I think the Actim and other statistical databases can be useful, but need to be used in tandem with common sense.

I heard that Roy was becoming very reliant on technology such as this: http://www.soccerperformance.org/spe...nalsystems.htm

This sort of thing can lead to the exclusion of players like Andy Reid, who will be shown on the tracking system to be doing less tracking back, tackling, etc.

Systems like those don't really detect guile and creativity too well. Instead of a penetrating ball that the defender just managed to get to, it's counted as a giveaway, for example.

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Originally Posted by irishfan86

I think the Actim and other statistical databases can be useful, but need to be used in tandem with common sense.

I heard that Roy was becoming very reliant on technology such as this: http://www.soccerperformance.org/spe...nalsystems.htm

This sort of thing can lead to the exclusion of players like Andy Reid, who will be shown on the tracking system to be doing less tracking back, tackling, etc.

Systems like those don't really detect guile and creativity too well. Instead of a penetrating ball that the defender just managed to get to, it's counted as a giveaway, for example.

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Yes - that expands on part of the point I was trying to make.

Again, to reiterate. As a form guide - I can accept and understand that.

I'm sure the statistical accuracy captured is sound, with certain methodologies applied - but would you make a practical selection of a particular player for a particular game based on the data?

Consider this scenario:

Steven Finnan crosses the ball across the bows of the Dutch defence. Jason McAteer, unmarked, shapes up to strike the ball.

Freeze the frame.

What was Jason McAteers Actim 100 score at that moment?

Did we really care or did it make a difference?

Was it really going to make a difference statistically what his score was when what was required was composure under pressure and various chains of events that led him to be right there, at that moment?

I think the key is that stats are quantitative but not qualitative. Applying them in tandem with common sense is a good way of putting it alright.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

This thread is going into my bookmarks and I'll drag it up in a few years time. :)

Look at England's next big thing, Micah Richards. Put him beside John O'Shea and see how impressive he looks.

Richards:
"I am still young and I am still learning. I know I have a tendency to chase people all over the place sometimes but that is where Richard Dunne has been such a big help to me. He is always moving me into the right positions."

I'm really surprised how opinions on McShane have changed. The vast majority of centre halves of his age need to be led. At premiership/international level 99% of 21 year old centre halves need to be led. I actually don't think McShane requires an organiser beside him all that much. Unlike Phil Babb, McShane is learning a lot with every game.

I'm delighted to have Dunne and McShane as our centre backs.

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Eirebhoy, what say you now??

Back on the bench today for Sunderland

He came on after an hour for Nosworthy. Not often you see centre halves being subbed.

1640: GOAL Sunderland 1-2 Aston Villa
Paul McShane almost decapitates Gabby Agbonlahor as the ball bounces on the edge of the area. The foul looks just outside but ref Mike Dean points to the spot and Gareth Barry converts.

haha :D

McShane is a trainwreck. Honest player but against quality opposition like the Italian's he will be ruthlessly exposed. Stephen Ireland ran him ragged when City beat Hull 5-0.

Every time he touched the ball, he was booed, and they were his own supporters.

I really can't see McShane having a future at Sunderland.

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Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar

McShane is a trainwreck. Honest player but against quality opposition like the Italian's he will be ruthlessly exposed. Stephen Ireland ran him ragged when City beat Hull 5-0.

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At left back in fairness. We wouldn't judge Dunne at left back.

I thought Colombia had a lot of pace and quality and McShane was motm against them.

It's a real pity he got called back from Hull. The pressure on him at Sunderland must be unreal and confidence rock bottom.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

At left back in fairness. We wouldn't judge Dunne at left back.

I thought Colombia had a lot of pace and quality and McShane was motm against them.

It's a real pity he got called back from Hull. The pressure on him at Sunderland must be unreal and confidence rock bottom.

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Wonder if Hull will try to sign him permanently now the Finnan deal looks dead. Would imagine he wouldnt cost much more than Finnan would have.

Well they do have Kilbane now and he can fill in at left-back.

what was he thinking? Dunne is no better after his lashout.

I saw the Villa incident on MOTD. Dreadful defending by McShane, total loss of concentration, just like in Cardiff, at home to Serbia and quite a few other occasions. I'd have no faith in him whatsoever in a qualifier. Trainwreck indeed I'm afraid.

Same old same old with McShane.Heart on sleeve but s*it footballer.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I saw the Villa incident on MOTD. Dreadful defending by McShane, total loss of concentration, just like in Cardiff, at home to Serbia and quite a few other occasions.

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Don't agree that Wales and Serbia were loss of concentration. If anything he was the only one to react against Wales, and Serbia was more his inexperience, assuming Delaney would have been more forward up the pitch. That's just those 2 incidents though. He's obviously been involved in plenty and at fault for plenty. :)

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs

Yeah we're gob****es for booing the worst defender in the Premiership.

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Yes, you would be. What is the point in booing a player who gives 100%? There is no doubting McShane's commitment so I can't understand why he would be booed. He doesn't pick himself for the team - his manager does. The fact that he isn't very good and plays for Sunderland is not his fault. Boo Keane who signed him and the manager who picks him. McShane does his best. I hate people who boo playera unless they're lazy and not giving it their all.

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs

Hull didn't put up much of a fight in keeping him.

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They didn't have a choice, it was in his contract that Sunderland could recall him at any time.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Yes, you would be. What is the point in booing a player who gives 100%? There is no doubting McShane's commitment so I can't understand why he would be booed. He doesn't pick himself for the team - his manager does. The fact that he isn't very good and plays for Sunderland is not his fault. Boo Keane who signed him and the manager who picks him. McShane does his best. I hate people who boo playera unless they're lazy and not giving it their all.

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Sbirgia has come under fire for bring Mc****forbrains back. We booed him to get are point across. We don't want him. Its his fault we didn't get a point on saturday. Granted the foul was outside the box but what the hell was the clown doing. The lad is a joke. There is at five LOI defenders better than him. His best isn't good enough and why shouldn't fans let him know that. Well done Paul we lost the game because you can't defend or tackle and you're as slow as **** but hey at least you gave your best.

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Originally Posted by SunderlandBohs

Sbirgia has come under fire for bring Mc****forbrains back. We booed him to get are point across. We don't want him. Its his fault we didn't get a point on saturday. Granted the foul was outside the box but what the hell was the clown doing. The lad is a joke. There is at five LOI defenders better than him. His best isn't good enough and why shouldn't fans let him know that. Well done Paul we lost the game because you can't defend or tackle and you're as slow as **** but hey at least you gave your best.

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You’re being very harsh and unreasonable here. McShane is a limited footballer I agree but he does not deserve to be booed by his own so called fans.He does not pick himself for the team, he did not recall himself from Hull, he does not deliberately go out and play badly so he should not be slaughtered because of it. He plays to the best of his limited ability and gives 100%. I hope all Sunderland fans don’t have attitudes like you.

I wonder the fact that he plays rubbish for Sunderland and decent for Hull have anything to do with the fans reaction to him. Am I right in saying that the Sunderland fans were harsh on Kilbane too.