How come there is never any momentum for hiring a German? I would think many of you would be keen on that.
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How come there is never any momentum for hiring a German? I would think many of you would be keen on that.
Haha, Beattie had it coming!Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
exactly. trap is a manager who has guided a team of mid EPL and championship players to a WC playoff and the euros in his two campaigns to date yet many want him gone. there is no point in replacing him unless we get someone better. Pulis is illustrative of the standard of manager that will be in the running post trap and we will be worse off imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
Well one of the criticisms of Trap is (or was) that he didn't go to enough games in the UK involving Irish players, I can't see this being a problem with Pulis. He already knows a lot about the Premier League including the lower rung teams so he would be starting from a higher base than Trap did 4-5 years ago. If say he still lived in the Stoke area he would be within easy reach of all the midlands clubs and the north west teams in England, so for example it would be very easy for him to watch the likes of Coleman at Everton, Sammon and Hendrick at Derby, Long at WBA, all the Villa and Wolves Irish players, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Another criticism has been his salary being too high, Pulis might be a bit cheaper than Trap, but then again Denis O'Brien might not subsidise the Welshman so the net cost could be the same. I wouldn't be too overjoyed with Pulis myself, but one has to be realistic, I dont think the Irish national team job is going to attract the managers at the very heights of the game, i.e. compared to say the top leagues in Europe or the CL.
It looks like Brian McDermott will sign with Leeds today so the circle of viable candidates is decreasing.
Yes, there are all kind of fans and supporters. The point I was making is that an appointment of Pulis would not remove that section of fans who are against Trap because of the style of football he plays. The appointment would still have that section anti-Pulis ab initio.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
There is of course another category of fan you haven't mentioned. Those who support the manager because he has brought the team relative success despite the apparently bizarre decisions and who do not think that the far away hills are always green and who have more often than not found those hills to be a mirage and devoid of any growth.
Just to confirm McDermott has gone to Leeds on a 3 year deal:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ermott-manager
I don't see him in the running for the Ireland job now nor probably in a just over a year (by which time Trap will definately be gone). I think he is off the list.
I've been thinking about this in the last few days, and was thinking about Trap saying we have no right to expect to compete against Germany and his latest post Austria comment about "not being Germany, not being England". Those two comments are, for me, probably the most irritating and negative thing that he's done thus far. I thought they were disgraceful and stupid things to say. It got me thinking of how we used to play the bigger teams with no fear, even if we've Tommy Coyne up-front against Italy, or a Blackburn Rovers sub on the wing against Holland.
Leafing through a Jonathan Wilson book on the bog there I came across an interview with Slaven Bilic who was describing Miroslav Blazevic's managerial methods. I googled it and found this site:http://false9.blogspot.ie/2011/08/cr...-miroslav.html who have printed the entire quote from Bilic which I loved
I'm not saying Ireland need some madman in charge who just talks up the players, but I do think our next manager needs to have a little bit of that in him. Certainly more than Trap does anyway.Quote:
He was the ideal coach for us. If you’d given us Capello, Ferguson or Wenger, it wouldn’t have worked. He was everybody’s father, a great motivator.
You would play against, let’s say, Estonia, and you know it’s only Estonia, but he would gradually motivate you. Every day he knew in his head when he was going to create an incident to wake everybody up a bit, then he’d tell us all to go to a nightclub or something. At team meetings he’d be talking about Estonia as though they were ****ing Brazil. You’d know he was lying, you’d know it wasn’t true, but you say, ****, yeah, it’s going to be hard. And he would always say Estonia’s left-back is whoever, and he’d be talking about their players, and he’d be writing their names on a board, and you’d know it was wrong; he’d be saying, like, this guy, he’s so quick, he’s so good, and you’d know when he was talking to you that he’d never seen him in his ****ing life.
Anyway, it would motivate you, but whoever we played against, he always told us we were better than them. So when we played Argentina in the World Cup, he came to me and he said “Son”, because we were always his sons, “Son, you have to come with me and talk to the press.” So, OK, it’s me and him in the press conference. And I know even the twenty-second player in their squad plays for Inter, and everybody else is at AC Milan, Real Madrid, Barcelona…all at the best teams, and we have Boban at Milan, but he doesn’t play, and Šuker at Real Madrid, and he doesn’t play. The rest of us were playing in great leagues but not for great teams. So he says to the press, “Argentina, not a bad team, not a bad team, but none of their players play for the best teams in Europe”. So I look at him and say “What the **** are you talking about?” But that’s what he was like. It was all nonsense, but it was great nonsense.
I used to love reading about the Charlton era lads traveling to games on the team bus with rebel songs being blasted out on the ghetto blaster. The team had an identity and a sense of purpose and felt confident playing everyone. I think under Trap they're probably overly respectful of everyone and I think probably the same under Kerr.
I reckon it's going to be McCarthy. I heard he has a clause in his contract allowing him to leave with no compo to Ipswich for the Ireland job.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
I've really enjoyed our last two games. We created some excellent scoring chances in both games and I still expect us to just about get second place (Sweden will struggle to beat Kaz away). If we do qualify (as I expect) then what happens to Trapatonni? There are a few scenarios whereby Trapatonni could still be in charge come Euro 2016 Qualifying. Qualifying for the WC and then getting out of the group would change everything. Might look like a long, long shot viewing this from today but the WC usually has 'easier' groups then the Euros. Delaney will go with the flow of course.
Hmm, you want to take up that bet then? Trap has proved himself far too intransigent and resistant to change for us to have much hope. That and the small matter of largely mediocre players.
Admire the optimism, but don't remotely share it. At this stage I'd settle for a close 3rd. Whoever does get second regardless, will be amazed if they negotiate the play-offs successfully.
Noelys Guitar and ArdeeBhoy in... 'Battle of the Extremists'
Hardly. It's just misplaced optimism on the evidence of what we've seen so far in this campaign...
Jesus, Noely's extreme optimism even scared off mypost.
Gas that that was loved by the public then (and now) and promoted and encouraged by an Englishman, whereas now people seem to cringe at Robbie singing rebel songs in pubs or McLean's public displays of his Nationalism. Which is a shame, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Why are Myposts posts always deleted?
I wanted Trap gone a long time ago. The worst game for me (before the Euro finals)was the Slovakia game away when we drew 1-1. We settled for a draw against mediocre team missing all of their top players. The lack of ambition and the continuing mistakes by players like Given and Whelan was really ****ing me off. The Euro shambles followed and then the hammering by Germany should have seen Trap out the door. But we all know what transpired. Trap gets a new lease of Irish managerial life. Starts playing most of our best players. Wilson, Coleman, McCarthy, Long and McClean are all reasonable players. And we have a real go in two games against Sweden and Austria. In fact we were the better team in both games. And there is nothing on the horizon that suggests we won't continue to be better than Sweden and Austria come the games later in the year. If we continue to play with the same energy/invention we showed in the last two games then we can get the runner up spot.
Cor, 'energy/invention' is stretching it. Better and some limited signs for optimism is as much positive gloss as I can put on there.
Remember when I told you Armenia would beat Slovakia AB. They actually went on to hammer them. Sweden are not a good enough team to get 3 points in Kazakhstan.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
He will get a new contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
What of those "disgraceful and stupid things" are wrong?Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
Against Holland, we had Bonner, McGrath, Keane, Houghton, Aldo. We don't have that quality today, and by rights we should be fighting it out for 4th spot, rather than going to tournaments and holding our own in the fight for playoff places, where Trap has got us.
On the "evidence" so far, we were apparantly going to struggle to beat the puffins and get destroyed 0-5 in Sweden, whereas the evidence that counts is on the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Which is all fine and dandy assuming if we are 'good' enough to beat Sweden & Austria. Plus then even make the play-off's and get a fortunate draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
That's rather too many 'ifs'...
By which time he'd be 76-77, which without being ageist doesn't seem like an ideal given the demands of the job?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
As long as we beat the Faroes, our result is irrelevant and whilst not losing to Sweden is creditable, I see precious little evidence of beating anyone higher-ranked at home with this manager's approach/tactics.Quote:
On the "evidence" so far, we were apparantly going to struggle to beat the puffins and get destroyed 0-5 in Sweden, whereas the evidence that counts is on the table.
Slovakia are not as good as Sweden and they didn't have a Ibrahimovic who can turn the game on its head, Armenia play a lot better football than the Kazakhs, and Sweden play them when they are towards the end of the qualifying campaign with nothing to play for. Armenia were always in the hunt up to their game against us. Too many factors that don't compare favourably with that game between Armenia and Slovakia. Sweden will win in Kazakhstan - just. Just like they did in the faroes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
I know what you're saying and I even typed something kind of similar after hearing an interview with Keith Andrews some time back. He had basically said that if they played Germany again in the morning the chances would be pretty high that we'd get hammered again. True as it may be it was fairly depressing to hear an established player admitting it. The same guy had given us a chance of winning the Euros eight or nine months earlier!Quote:
Originally Posted by Yard of Pace
I don't think that kind of stuff counts for too much though. We have got results in Italy, Bulgaria, France, Russia, Slovakia and Sweden under his management, so clearly the players aren't suffering too much from the 'inferiority complex' some of his comments imply. Who knows, maybe he even does it as a kind of reverse psychology motivating tool!
Let's look at the context of his "we're not Germany" remarks. He was saying that we have no right to be expecting to beat Austria. I personally think we have every right to be disappointed not beating an Austria team that was there for the taking and largely because of selections, tactical approach and use of the bench. I don't care if Kevin Doyle hadn't been playing well for Wolves. He's a different class to Sammon, as is Walters (and even Leon Best), and Trap's judgment in that regard was dreadful in my opinion.
Comparing us (or not) to Germany was daft and irrelevant, because we all know they're a cut above what we can even dream of being like. His comments were a bogus tactic of deflection.
I empathise with Owls Fan saying be careful of wishing Trap out as what comes in may be worse. On balance I disagree and quite frankly I'll be happy with hoofball if it seems to be the best approach. I think this has been proven not to be the case. (This last bit was prompted by the Pulis / purist debate just above). If we have a knack of grinding out ugly narrow wins over our group rivals at home I'll take ugly all day long.
I don't agree with Noely about the Austria game. I thought we approached the Austria game all wrong and we went to pieces after a good spell early in the second half.
Thank Goodness we are not German. Who would want to be German, punctuality aside?
When the Trap was spouting that nonsense about not being Germany I wish a journalist shouted out 'what about Montenegro?'. Tiny country and top a group containing England, Ukraine and Poland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Great football league, prospoperous country, well-educated, provides jobs for its young, has great towns and cities, great beer, has its own ski resorts, they make great cars, great institutional structures, great appreciation of the long-term rather than a "get rich quick and let the devil take the hindmost" approach, Claudia Schaeffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
I think being born German wouldn't be the worst random draw outcome.
To which Trap could reply... "Montenegro?? I didn't notice them at the Euros"Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
By the way, I don't think Trap was saying we can't expect to beat Austria as we are not Germany, England, etc. He was responding (straight after a galling end to a match) to a stupid question by TO'D as to whether or not he would now resign because we didn't beat Austria. I think he was referring to the fact that we are still in contention for second and we're never going to be able to waltz through groups with no set backs like Germany can.
Fair response re-TOD alright even though I still think it contained a degree of defeatism, which would be consistent with his broad approach to managing us and how he sets us up.
You've shown your age right there stutts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Ill now show mine. Diane Kruger.
To the totty thread!!!
You would have to ask him how ideal it is. To me, he seems to be as committed to the job as he was when he started.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
The result by Germany came as a result of half a team unavailable and going 4-4-2 after half time. The Euro "shambles" was losing to both finalists that nobody else, Germany included could get past either. The result in Slovakia was a vital point against a "mediocre" side who had just beaten Russia and Italy weeks before. Without it, there would have been no Euros across the border for us to look forward to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
All very well, but when the time came for the crunch, they lost 3-0 to Czech Republic in the playoff for Euro 2012. We beat Estonia 5-1. There's the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Ya that's the only difference, nothing to do with the fact that czech team were far better than the Estonian team we faced. You compare black with white as though they are the same thing.
Aren't they the same thing?
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...sm4ygNowlYZKSy
It's not comparing like for like to be fair.
That said, I wouldn't rate Ukraine or Poland any higher than Slovakia or Bulgaria who we had to finish ahead of in the last two campaigns and Germany are on another planet to England, who will probably still finish ahead of Montenegro if they can beat them at Wembley.
Heard of positive spin but this is ridiculous. You're not comparing like with like.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
we were the Montenegro of europe before punching well above our weight. there is always one or two but at the end of qualifying its the usual suspects that qualify with the one or two exceptions from time to time.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Decent beer, food and an opposite sex who don't typically look like the back end of a heifer...Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
:)
Oh and what Stutts said.
- We also lost to Croatia.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
- We had an aggregate score of 9 goals against and 1 for in all games.
- We were massively outplayed by everyone we encountered.
- We were by far the poorest team in the compettition.
- We let Paul Green come onto the pitch in Irish colours in front of a television audience of several hundred million people.
Other than that we had a good tournament. Therefore the double quotes are entirely justified.
I don't know what game you were watching, but I didn't see us being "massively outplayed" by Croatia. With a decent run of the ball I think we could have achieved a draw out in that game for reasons I won't bore everyone again with. The two finalists and Croatia. Croatia who have not ended a calendar year outside the top 10 of Fifa's rankings since 2006 and who had not lost any of their four opening matches at a European Championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by youngirish
Yes, we were the poorest team results wise in the competition results wise but I wonder how the other lowest ranked side would have got on in our group.
Paul Green - the butt of jokes of many anti-Trap activists. How did you think he got on against Sweden recently? He is a workman like Championship player, like some of our other squad members, and does not deserve the opprobrium heaped upon him