The Derry City thread - Derry sign first four players

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27/10/2009, 9:22 AM
gufc2000

Hutton poised for Brandywell exit

Derry City captain Peter Hutton will leave the crisis-hit club at the end of the season after being told his contract will not be renewed.

The 36-year-old central defender, who has made 661 appearances for the Candystripes, is the first victim of City's cost-cutting measures.

"It was like a bolt out of the blue but I don't hold any grudges," said Hutton.

The former Portadown player has ruled out retirement and he is considering a return to the Irish League.

Hutton, who also played for Shelbourne, had a brief spell at Shamrock Park in 1998.

He added: "Hopefully, I can get an opportunity to keep playing, possibly in the Irish League on a part-time basis.

"I've kept myself in good shape and I intend to continue to look after myself, so I'm not retiring from the game just yet.

"I was informed by Stephen Kenny that my contract would not be renewed and I was disappointed, but that's football."

Hutton and his team-mates have not had their wages paid on time because of the ongoing financial difficulties at the Brandywell.

The club has been very good to me as a player, but the state of the local game is not good at the moment.

"It's very disappointing that the club is on its knees again," he said.

"I was at the Brandywell in 2000 when the club experienced financial difficulties and, even before that, there were problems when Derry had to go into voluntary liquidation during the 1990s.

"My over-riding feeling is one of sadness. I've been involved as one of the players' representatives in the ongoing discussions with the Board and I've become a bit disillusioned.

"The club has been very good to me as a player, but the state of the local game is not good at the moment and we've come to understand that we are not immune from the difficulties.

"It's certainly been a rollercoaster ride for me but, fingers crossed, people will rally around and the club will return a much better organisation for the changes that will be made."

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BBC Sport
27/10/2009, 9:33 AM
Flexy

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Many Thanks PIZZA for being such a loyal servant you'll never be forgotten
27/10/2009, 9:41 AM
Sam_Heggy

Pizza is a LOI legend imo, cracking player even though he's a mucker :p

I had heard a rumour about Kenny's exit to Pats and Eddie Seydak with Pizza to replace him with a Youthful side. Obviously this rules that out as Kenny wouldn't be in a position to let players go for next season had he intended to leave.
27/10/2009, 9:47 AM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Personally, I've no interest whatsoever in returning to the IL as long as sectarianism is still rife and that kind of societal problem isn't going to change overnight.

Sectarianism is not "rife" in the IL. It may not be perfect but it is one hell of a long way from where it was. You do a dis-service to all IL clubs by suggesting such.
27/10/2009, 10:16 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Sectarianism is not "rife" in the IL. It may not be perfect but it is one hell of a long way from where it was. You do a dis-service to all IL clubs by suggesting such.

Eye of the beholder and all that.
27/10/2009, 10:49 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krstic

As i said this is soley my opinion, but i will try to explain.
I should really have said 'very little in common in football terms' with IL teams and fans

I'm 34, therefore my entire time following Derry City has been in the LOI.
I also attend Rep of Ireland internationals.

As a football fan i am entirely comfortable in these surroundings, i don't look at myself or my club as merely Visitors to LOI football. This is all i have known.
I feel comfortable going to away games in Dundalk, Dublin or Galway. However when i have gone to both the Oval and Windsor I have never felt comfortable. Police everywhere outside the ground, wire cage tunnels to get into the grounds and sectarian chants (from both Home and away fans).
This is something that is alien to me as a LOI fan, however you as an IL fan have probably alot of experience of this.(I'm not saying as a participant by the way).
On top of this I just think that demographically Derry City are more at ease in the LOI, would you not agree?

Interesting. It's sad (imo), if hardly surprising that it has come to this, considering the situation in NI etc.
All I would say is that if the LOI is all you have known since you have been following football, remember too that for 50 years before you, the IL was all that DCFC fans knew (even if that wasn't always a happy situation)
Which I guess means that if ever DCFC did return to the IL, succeeding generations of new fans might only come to know IL football, with all that entails.
Then again, as I get older, I do tend to take an increasingly long-term view of things!

Anyhow, if DCFC were back in the IL, it would not mean Derry as a town, or those inhabitants who follow its football club, were any less "Nationalist" etc in outlook. Otherwise, how do you think the likes of Cliftonville, Donegal Celtic and Newry City manage? Or would eg Linfield and Glentoran become any less "Unionist" should they join some all-Ireland League in future?

That said, it's still all purely hypothetical and still v.unlikely to come about (imo).

P.S. There is no reason why DCFC fans cannot go on being fans of the ROI team, regardless of what League their club plays in.
27/10/2009, 10:50 AM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Eye of the beholder and all that.

Really? You attend IL games on a regular basis then? :rolleyes:
27/10/2009, 10:55 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krstic

SMorgan, It would also probably be cheaper and just as handy for Dundalk, Monaghan and Finn Harps to play in the Irish League.
Would you want to go there to play?
Derry City are a League of Ireland team and very proud of it.

Silly comparison - those clubs have no connection with NI or the IL and never had. Further, they do not feel compelled to leave the LOI, as DCFC did the IL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krstic

It annoys me when other LOI fans say that we should go back there, I have have never been there, however my father, Uncles and Grandfathers have all been there and would never go back.

I have heard people say the same about attending NI games, but those few who have been persuaded to return all agree that the present day bears little comparison to what went on even 15 years ago.
Things change - but only when mindsets do.
27/10/2009, 11:08 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezeikial

But I can't see how the IL would hold any attraction for Derry or anyone else in LOI (apart from the reduced travel cost).

As others have noted, the reduced travel cost would likely be outweighed by extra security etc.
I'd say that a greater "attraction" for DCFC should be that IL clubs do not engage in the "arms race" which DCFC Steve earlier described as infecting the LOI these days i.e. "We must spend money (we don't actually have), otherwise we'll fall behind other clubs (who are spending money they don't actually have)"
If, as seems evident, DCFC could be very competitive, and financially viable, playing part-time in an overwhelmingly p-t IL, then that ought (imo) to appeal to them.
For I have always felt that when it comes to attracting fans and support etc, being competitive (even at a lower standard of football) is actually more important than struggling in a higher standard League, or "betting the farm" to compete in a higher standard League.
That said, if football fans don't want something, for whatever reason or none, you can't force them, since following a team is always overwhelmingly more of an emotional thing than a rational one.
27/10/2009, 11:11 AM
dcfcsteve

Pizza is the last player we should be releasing in my view.

He's been excellent for the club, and despite his age is still solid and very dependable.

If he's off to play-time part time in the IL, then it would've suited the club better to convert him into a part-time player with us. Though I appreciate that might have been difficult for both sides to arrange/cope with.
27/10/2009, 11:13 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by MariborKev

EG,

I'd have to agreed with you, I think if we did end up in the A League there would be 100 max at the games, whatever people's posturing on internet message boards.

It wouldn't be "I'd rather watch them in the A League than the IL", for the vast majority it would be "Ah, A League? Not watching that".

I'd be split on what'd I'd go for, but if it ever go to such a scenario it should at least be voted on.

If the only alternatives open to DCFC were either going bust or re-joining the IL, do you think the reaction would ber the same as that of the A League i.e. all but 100 diehards deciding "Not watching that"?

Or might significantly more be persuaded at least to give it a go?
27/10/2009, 11:21 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The Irish League is not the answer to Derry City's problems.

Not spending money we don't have is the answer to Derry City's problems.

Other than that the IL might offer less temptation to spend money they don't have, no-one who I can see is suggesting that the IL is the "answer" to DCFC's problems (Liam Coyle aside?).

But if DCFC's finances are so poor that they cannot receive an LOI licence from the FAI (either Prem or 1st Division), or might even go bust entirely, might it not be preferable to try the IL, as an alternative to the A League (or even having no team at all)?
27/10/2009, 11:30 AM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

If he's off to play-time part time in the IL, then it would've suited the club better to convert him into a part-time player with us.

If the players aren't even receiving the back-pay already due to them for this season, what confidence could they have in getting paid out on even a p-t contract for next season?

Perhaps Hutton may already have been approached by an IL club and is reasoning that "half an IL loaf is better than no LOI bread" - which at 36 is entirely understandable (imo).
27/10/2009, 12:17 PM
Flexy

Ciaran Martyn was approached last week by Portadown to sign he went there and they only offered him half of what he was on at Derry as that was all they could afford, he told them were to go and went back to derry. The thing is there will be lots of players this yr out of contract at derry and other clubs who will have to take substanial pay cuts to play football in this country. Dont know of any club apart from Rovers who could match the current salaries
27/10/2009, 12:43 PM
RonnieB

Kenny apparently said the players havent been paid in two months... that is beyond nuts.
27/10/2009, 12:52 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If the only alternatives open to DCFC were either going bust or re-joining the IL, do you think the reaction would ber the same as that of the A League i.e. all but 100 diehards deciding "Not watching that"?

Or might significantly more be persuaded at least to give it a go?

I don't see circumstances under which they would be the only option however.

The club could reform again in the LOI. EU law would support us on that, as I'm sure would the other league clubs/FAI - which is all that would be required to enable it to happen legally. The IFA would have no ability to prevent it even if they wanted to.
27/10/2009, 12:55 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

If the players aren't even receiving the back-pay already due to them for this season, what confidence could they have in getting paid out on even a p-t contract for next season?

Perhaps Hutton may already have been approached by an IL club and is reasoning that "half an IL loaf is better than no LOI bread" - which at 36 is entirely understandable (imo).

Our club has income, and is trying to secure more for next season.

Wages are our biggest cost.

So if wages are being decreased significantly (i.e. from full-time to part-time salaries), why wouldn't we be able to afford the vastly reduced outgoings ? It's cutting out cloth to suit.

I would assume a more likely issue would be the fact that they've been messed around full-stop.
27/10/2009, 1:30 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I don't see circumstances under which they [A League or IL] would be the only option however.

You may well be correct; as I said, it is presently only a hypothetical discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The club could reform again in the LOI. EU law would support us on that, as I'm sure would the other league clubs/FAI - which is all that would be required to enable it to happen legally.

So in what circumstances may a team be thrown out of a League? (Or perhaps more accurately, in what circumstances may a League reject an application to join/re-join by a club which, in one incarnation or another, had been forced to leave previously?)

Iirc, Coleraine FC effectively went bust a few years back, but were allowed to reform as a "new" entity by supporters and retain their (former) place in the IL, since at the time there was no specific provision in the IL's Rules which could prevent such a process.

Afaik, however, the IL subsequently inserted a Rule specifically to disallow any such re-occurrence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

The IFA would have no ability to prevent it even if they wanted to.

No-one is suggesting that could, even if they wanted to...:rolleyes:
27/10/2009, 1:38 PM
EalingGreen

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Our club has income, and is trying to secure more for next season.

Wages are our biggest cost.

So if wages are being decreased significantly (i.e. from full-time to part-time salaries), why wouldn't we be able to afford the vastly reduced outgoings ? It's cutting out cloth to suit.

I would assume a more likely issue would be the fact that they've been messed around full-stop.

No-one is suggesting that (assuming they remain in the LOI), DCFC won't have an income next season, which should be adequate to run a team on reduced wages etc.

However, your post implies that they would be starting next season with a "clean slate". We must assume that the club is presently heavily indebted, perhaps hopelessly so.

How do you think they propose to deal with that? Sugar Daddy? Bucket collection? Celtic friendly? Sell their ground?

I'm not on a wind-up here, but it's not good for football if clubs imagine they can simply walk away from debts every time they reach unsustainable levels and start again, as if nothing had happened. (And that is assuming they don't owe money to the Inland Revenue, who as you know, are quite capable of enforcing a debt should they choose to)
27/10/2009, 1:45 PM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Really? You attend IL games on a regular basis then? :rolleyes:

I've attended enough Setanta Cup games to know its an issue.

I'm not going to get into allocation of blame, but its there.

Maybe you're just used to it by now?
27/10/2009, 2:20 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

No-one is suggesting that (assuming they remain in the LOI), DCFC won't have an income next season, which should be adequate to run a team on reduced wages etc.

However, your post implies that they would be starting next season with a "clean slate". We must assume that the club is presently heavily indebted, perhaps hopelessly so.

Your question re level of debt is a fair one. But the simple answer is we just don't know, as the club hasn't said anything about the debt situation (or, indeed, any details of its overall finances), so it's all conjecture really. I have no doubt there is debt, but no idea how much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

How do you think they propose to deal with that? Sugar Daddy? Bucket collection? Celtic friendly? Sell their ground?

Without an indication as to the level of debt, it's simply impossible to answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I'm not on a wind-up here, but it's not good for football if clubs imagine they can simply walk away from debts every time they reach unsustainable levels and start again, as if nothing had happened. (And that is assuming they don't owe money to the Inland Revenue, who as you know, are quite capable of enforcing a debt should they choose to)

The problem here is that clubs aren't just businesses. They are also civic and community entities. If one particular administration runs a football club badly, is it right that the whole concept of that particular club as a communtiy and civic entity should not be allowed to go on (largely out of a sense of punishment/vindictiveness one would assume, particularly if the failed administration are no longer in charge) ? It would be like telling the people of Iceland that they can't have a country any more, because their previous government made such a mess of it. The concept of a football club is bigger than just those who run it at any one time.

Plus - it's a pretty well established fact now that football clubs with even half-decent support don't go out of existence any more, like they did in the old days. The fans just reform them (Halifax, Telford, Wimbledon etc) - proof that the 'concept' or community/civic entity will live on regardless. Any football club with a relatively decent support base begins to almost take-omn a life and momentum of its own. I don't see what there would be to gain in quelching that, purely to act as the footballing equivalent of a wrathful god.
27/10/2009, 5:54 PM
Mr A

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonnieB

Kenny apparently said the players havent been paid in two months... that is beyond nuts.

Yeah, that was confirmed (well, mentioned) on RTE News there. The situation really is dire if that is the case.
27/10/2009, 6:42 PM
redobit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr A

Yeah, that was confirmed (well, mentioned) on RTE News there. The situation really is dire if that is the case.

OK so it's fair to assume there is no money in the club, but where are the gate receipts going so?
27/10/2009, 6:47 PM
micls

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

What if a club paid all its players a relatively low salary - one that they could afford.

Would they still not be full-time because you don't think it's organisationally feasible for an Irish football team to be so ? :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by redobit

OK so it's fair to assume there is no money in the club, but where are the gate receipts going so?

There last crowd was under 1000 and afaik they have more season ticket holders than that-money which would have been spent long ago
27/10/2009, 7:58 PM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

That said, it's still all purely hypothetical and still v.unlikely to come about (imo).

.

Damn right it wont, just have a look at the poll on Derrychat. So you may forget all about the age old argument of Derry returning to the IL. I personally would be happy if we offloaded 6 or 7 of the current squad to Glentoran or anyone who would take them though !
27/10/2009, 8:05 PM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Pizza is the last player we should be releasing in my view.

He's been excellent for the club, and despite his age is still solid and very dependable.

Have you been watching him this past 2 seasons (regularly) ? He definately made a sincere effort but he is finished in regards to speed and agility. Caught out on numerous occasions.

Its time to spring clean with a yard brush, we have had the nucleus of the same team for too long, who were never title contenders but unfortunately got paid as such.

we have 4 or 5 talented youth, McDaid, Nash etc who might not win us a title but will cost us 1/4 of the wages.
27/10/2009, 10:46 PM
Mr_Parker

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

I've attended enough Setanta Cup games to know its an issue.

I'm not going to get into allocation of blame, but its there.

Maybe you're just used to it by now?

No one said it wasn't an issue but it is not a prevelant as you indicated.
28/10/2009, 10:03 AM
belfastred

Derry City see Red at Celtic bill

DERRY CITY Chairman Pat McDaid has refused to comment on claims that Irish League side, Cliftonville, have sent an invoice to the Brandywell club to cover a share of Glasgow Celtic's expenses from the recent friendly fixture at Solitude.
It's believed the Belfast 'Reds' are about to send a bill - totalling several thousand pounds - to the cash-strapped 'Candy Stripes' to cover a share of Celtic's travel, food and hotel costs during their stay in Belfast at the beginning of October.

Just 48 hours before a scheduled game at Brandywell, Derry City cancelled an arranged friendly with the 'Hoops' which was to form part of Paddy McCourt's transfer to the Parkhead club.

If the game had gone ahead, it's understood Derry City had arranged to split the costs with the Belfast club to fund Celtic's expenses during the trip.

However, as the game was cancelled by chairman, Pat McDaid, due to the quality and strength of the Celtic team - the list of players failed to include a recognised first team player - it's believed the Derry City Board have no intention of settling any bill.

Mr. McDaid has since approached the powers-that-be at Celtic Park to arrange just one match - on a date of Celtic's own choosing - but with a guarantee that a full strength Celtic team will grace the Brandywell.
28/10/2009, 10:17 AM
Martinho II

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonnieB

Kenny apparently said the players havent been paid in two months... that is beyond nuts.

plus the players wont get paid this weekend too..
28/10/2009, 9:12 PM
SMorgan

Derry league move 'not on agenda'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...sh/8331030.stm
28/10/2009, 10:00 PM
MariborKev

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMorgan

Derry league move 'not on agenda'

Neither is settling our debts it appears.
29/10/2009, 8:21 AM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by MariborKev

Neither is settling our debts it appears.

Before we even attempt to settle our debts we need to cut the outgoings ASAP. That means releasing 4 or 5 overpaid players this week. For the life of me i cant understand why any Derry fan would collect money in the City centre to compensate overpaid players, thats were it would go.
29/10/2009, 8:25 AM
dortie

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMorgan

Derry league move 'not on agenda'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...sh/8331030.stm

Is this meant to be a surprise ?
29/10/2009, 8:30 AM
Mr A

Quote:

Originally Posted by dortie

Before we even attempt to settle our debts we need to cut the outgoings ASAP. That means releasing 4 or 5 overpaid players this week. For the life of me i cant understand why any Derry fan would collect money in the City centre to compensate overpaid players, thats were it would go.

Can't be done. They have binding contracts and can't sign for anyone else until January. Why would they agree to simply not being paid the rest of their contracts?
29/10/2009, 8:45 AM
redobit

Why aren't gate receipts going toward paying players wages, surely this is Derrys largest bill, where is that money going for the last 2 months of non-payment of players?

It would be terrible for derry to switch leagues, I love to hate going to the Brandywell.
29/10/2009, 8:51 AM
belfastred

Am I right in saying that Derry City have special dispensation form UEFA to play in the LOI?

So if the returned in another guise like Cork have done over the years they would not be allowed to play in the LOI?
29/10/2009, 8:56 AM
MariborKev

Quote:

Originally Posted by belfastred

Am I right in saying that Derry City have special dispensation form UEFA to play in the LOI?

So if the returned in another guise like Cork have done over the years they would not be allowed to play in the LOI?

We already returned in another guise in the mid 90s.
29/10/2009, 9:04 AM
MariborKev

Quote:

Originally Posted by dortie

For the life of me i cant understand why any Derry fan would collect money in the City centre to compensate overpaid players, thats were it would go.

Exactly.

As a mutual acquaintance of ours emailed me yesterday

"A bucket collection is a stupid idea to be honest. No-one even knows how much in debt we are and even if we did, it's going to be so big that a bucket collection could never cover it. Can you imagine walking up to a front door with a bucket: "Derry City are broke, can you give me some money?" "Naw, I work in Stream and am being made redundant in December. My wife worked in Seagate Limavady and was made redundant last year. And you want me to give you money to pay people for playing football? Off ye go."
29/10/2009, 9:19 AM
belfastred

What are the chances of Derry getting a licence for next season?

Have they broke any of the rules yet?

I take it not paying players does break the rules?

Will they have broken the 65% rule as well?
29/10/2009, 10:17 AM
MariborKev

Quote:

Originally Posted by redobit

Why aren't gate receipts going toward paying players wages, surely this is Derrys largest bill, where is that money going for the last 2 months of non-payment of players?

It would be terrible for derry to switch leagues, I love to hate going to the Brandywell.

Wages>Gate Receipts therefore players aren't getting paid.

For the last two months I would say the crowd is between 70-90% season ticket holders, so little or no gate receipts.

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