Derry City applying for Grant Aid

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Originally Posted by pól-dcfc

The money Derry and it's supporters spend in the South with our sizeable travelling support contributes to RoI taxes.

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So do english supporters, etc in the rugby - should the irish government part fund stadiums over there too? :rolleyes:

Some people are missing the point anyway.

Under the sports capital programme a limited amount will be set aside for EL clubs/ FAI. Despite micls post, the facts are that under teh sports capital programme only those in the 26 counties are eligible - that is fact.

If linfield/ institue got funding from the irish governement it was via a different scheme

Now if derry want to secure funding through the many government north/south schemes/ special funds for north south stuff, fire away and i hope theyre successful. that is why the poll is inaccurate and where people on here are missing the point

However if they want to get funding through money given to the FAI to improve facilities in this country via the sports capital programme, well then thats a big no no from me.

But good luck with the stadium, I hope ye get as much as ye can get going down the UK route - and I hope ye get something from our government through north south schemes - but theres no way you should be allowed secure money through the sports capital programme (even if it is indirectly) at the expense of clubs in the Republic of Ireland who pay their taxes in this country

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Originally Posted by Cosmo

So do english supporters, etc in the rugby - should the irish government part fund stadiums over there too? :rolleyes:

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As you well know, (and whether you like it or not) special circumstances apply on this island, which makes your initial suggestion absolutely ****ing ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Cosmo

Some people are missing the point anyway.

Under the sports capital programme a limited amount will be set aside for EL clubs/ FAI. Despite micls post, the facts are that under teh sports capital programme only those in the 26 counties are eligible - that is fact.

If linfield/ institue got funding from the irish governement it was via a different scheme

Now if derry want to secure funding through the many government north/south schemes/ special funds for north south stuff, fire away and i hope theyre successful. that is why the poll is inaccurate and where people on here are missing the point

However if they want to get funding through money given to the FAI to improve facilities in this country via the sports capital programme, well then thats a big no no from me.

But good luck with the stadium, I hope ye get as much as ye can get going down the UK route - and I hope ye get something from our government through north south schemes - but theres no way you should be allowed secure money through the sports capital programme (even if it is indirectly) at the expense of clubs in the Republic of Ireland who pay their taxes in this country

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Tell us this then horse, if Sports Capital money was only for 26 county projects, why did DCFC recieve E 85,000 in 2005? http://historical-debates.oireachtas...607060270.html

Through the FAI, as stated in Mr O Donoghue's speech. A precedent has been set by that grant. The law of the Republic is founded on the principles of legislation and precendent. We are entitled to apply for more.

Just because you put something in bold doesn't make it true cosmo. And that is a fact.

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Originally Posted by Cosmo

So do english supporters, etc in the rugby - should Under the sports capital programme a limited amount will be set aside for EL clubs/ FAI. Despite micls post, the facts are that under teh sports capital programme only those in the 26 counties are eligible - that is fact.
However if they want to get funding through money given to the FAI to improve facilities in this country via the sports capital programme, well then thats a big no no from me.

and I hope ye get something from our government through north south schemes - but theres no way you should be allowed secure money through the sports capital programme (even if it is indirectly) at the expense of clubs in the Republic of Ireland who pay their taxes in this country

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Personally I think if Gaelic teams and players in the north are entitled to grants then so are Derry City.

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Why do you constantly refer to the Irish Government as 'the dublin government. Is it ignorance or are you just trying to **** people off?

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How is it either? It's accurate, understood by everybody, used by many who oppose partition (including SF ministers in the NI Assembly), and unlikely to upset many- any?- other readers.

I think it is disrespectful not to call it by its proper title.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

How is it either? It's accurate, understood by everybody, used by many who oppose partition (including SF ministers in the NI Assembly), and unlikely to upset many- any?- other readers.

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People in Cork might not like being reminded that the government doesn't sit there.

As for DCFC. I see no problem in them getting funding for the Irish government. We are not all partitionists in Louth.

sure why shouldnt they get money, if northern gaa clubs get funding from me then so should derry, any cross border organisation should be entitled to it, sure im funding the belfast docklands also, i hope they get it,

i just call it the pale:)

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Why do you constantly refer to the Irish Government as 'the dublin government.

Is it ignorance or are you just trying to **** people off?

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Why do you constantly rise to the bait? Is it ignorance or are you just trying to **** people off?

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Originally Posted by geysir

Well if you want to change the context of my Sham Rovers analogy.

If Derry council wanted to fund the Brandywell you would be happy.
But you would not be happy if the Irish government came in and said to Derry Council,"put away 1/2 of that, we will share the burden for you"..

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Disingenuous. I have not said that Dublin must not fund DCFC - that is for them to decide. What I am objecting to is DCFC considering they are entitled to two sets of Govt. funding which other teams in Ireland cannot access. Further, I object to DCFC receiving Stormont money (not IFA money) when they do not play in the IL.

Back to your Shams analogy: how would ROI taxpayers feel if they 50% funded SRFC (along with SDCC), Shams built a shiny new stadium and went off and played in a League in another jurisdiction?

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Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

I think it is disrespectful not to call it by its proper title.

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Fine, official titles it is. May I now presume you will in future be referring to "Londonderry" instead of "Derry", "Northern Ireland" instead of "the North" or "Six Counties", "Republic of Ireland" or "ROI" for your international Association Football team, instead of "Ireland", the name of this island's Cricket and Rugby teams etc and which in Association terms may only officially be used by the IFA, when playing against other British Association teams in non-World Cup or European Championship games? :)

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Why do you constantly rise to the bait? Is it ignorance or are you just trying to **** people off?

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I was not "baiting" anyone, since no offence was intended by my use of abbreviation.

Good God but this is one of the bigger messes I've seen in a thread on Foot in quite a while. Anyway my two cents are,

Derry contribute to Derry City's culture and so should be entitled to grants from the Northern Irish government, and they also contribute to the sporting culture on this island, and so should be entitled to grants from the Republic. That's about it as far as I'm concerned, case closed and Columbo can go home

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Originally Posted by jebus

Derry contribute to Derry City's culture and so should be entitled to grants from the Northern Irish government, and they also contribute to the sporting culture on this island, and so should be entitled to grants from the Republic. That's about it as far as I'm concerned, case closed and Columbo can go home

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"Linfield and Glentoran contribute to Belfast's culture and so should be entitled to grants from the Northern Irish government, and they also contribute to the sporting culture on this island, and so should be entitled to grants from the Republic"

Does Columbo still get the afternoon off? ;)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Disingenuous. I have not said that Dublin must not fund DCFC - that is for them to decide. What I am objecting to is DCFC considering they are entitled to two sets of Govt. funding which other teams in Ireland cannot access. Further, I object to DCFC receiving Stormont money (not IFA money) when they do not play in the IL.
Back to your Shams analogy: how would ROI taxpayers feel if they 50% funded SRFC (along with SDCC), Shams built a shiny new stadium and went off and played in a League in another jurisdiction?

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You are spinning analogies out of control. I give you one good analogy to demonstrate one point and you keep trying in vain to use it to prove E=MC2

Now your latest big objection is
"considering they are entitled to two sets of Govt. funding which other teams in Ireland cannot access".

Lets get this idiotic sensationalism out of the way first

We have people in the Republic objecting to funding of a club parked outside the state boundaries.
We have people in NI objecting to the funding of a club playing their football in the LOI and then we have some football fans sneering cynically at the Derry City Club in a "no mans land" position.

Normal application for Construction funding is for 2/3

So Derry City apply for a small portion from the 2 sources
1/3 from the North
1/3 from the South
I think that's a good compromise.

Some dogmatic people don't like compromise, they want to manically cry foul or betrayal.

I would hope the DCFC application is judged on its merits with a rational inspection of the project plans.

EG, say you went to a club with a mate but got separated during the course of the night. At the end you stumble singly, a touch forlornly, out on to the street just in time to see your friend get into a taxi with two well-endowed ladies. At this moment would you start running after the taxi yelling, "you're not entitled to them; you're nothing special", or would you halt for a moment and allow a little smirk to cross your face as you admired your friend's gumption? :)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

What I am objecting to is DCFC considering they are entitled to two sets of Govt. funding which other teams in Ireland cannot access. Further, I object to DCFC receiving Stormont money (not IFA money) when they do not play in the IL.

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10 pages later and you still haven't grasped anything anyone has said to you EG...:rolleyes:

1) Derry City are arguably entitled to two sets of funding, unique in comparison to other clubs on the island, because they are in a unique posiiton on the island. The reason why peopke keep mentioning what happened to City in the Irish League isn't to rake up old grievances, as you assert, but to explain to you how we ended-up in such a unique position against out will. But still you don't get it...

2) As a sports club, a community institution and a tax-paying business within Northern Ireland we are operfectly entitled to seek funding from the NI authorities. We woulsn't be entitled to Irish League funding - but we're not looking for that. Again I reiterate - you may not like us seekign Stormnont money, but give me one good reaosn why a sporting body based in the north and paying tax in the north should not be entitled to funding in the north ??

I can see no good reason why 10 pages later you are still wheeling out spurious arguements that have been tackled numerous times since Page 1. This only leads me to conclude that you just fundamentally don't like Derry City getting money from anyone or anything in NI - because we have the temerity to play outside the Irish league, even though we had no choice - and all you are doing is scrabbling around in the dark looking for excuses/reasons to make your position on this appear vaguely reasonable. They don't....

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Originally Posted by geysir

You are spinning analogies out of control. I give you one good analogy to demonstrate one point and you keep trying in vain to use it to prove E=MC2

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No "spinning" about it. I merely took your exact analogy and applied it in another context, to demonstrate a flaw in it. Namely, would you be happy with a club in the Republic receiving Dublin government funding for a stadium, then moving to play in another jurisdiction? Simple question, really (at least, easier than E=MC2!)

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Originally Posted by geysir

Now your latest big objection is
"considering they are entitled to two sets of Govt. funding which other teams in Ireland cannot access".

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It is not my "latest" objection. If you read my posts, I have objected since the start to one club in Ireland considering itself eligible for funding from two Governments and two Associations, whilst every other club has to make do with one each. I am concerned for a level playing field - particularly since DCFC's Chairman "let the cat out of the bag" when revealing that a major (chief?) concern is that without double funding, DCFC may not be able to stay f-t professional.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Lets get this idiotic sensationalism out of the way first

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Indeed, let's.

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Originally Posted by geysir

We have people in the Republic objecting to funding of a club parked outside the state boundaries.

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Not me, Gov. Take it up with those who do, if you don't mind.

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Originally Posted by geysir

We have people in NI objecting to the funding of a club playing their football in the LOI.

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Yep, that's me. I have no objection to DCFC playing in the LOI or receiving Dublin funding on that basis. Or playing in the IL and receiving Stormont funding accordingly.

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Originally Posted by geysir

we have some football fans sneering cynically at the Derry City Club in a "no mans land" position.

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Sorry, but you've got the wrong man, again. I have stated my sympathy on this thread for DCFC's plight in feeling compelled to play in the LOI, on account of being so badly treated by the IL.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Normal application for Construction funding is for 2/3

So Derry City apply for a small portion from the 2 sources
1/3 from the North
1/3 from the South

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A ratio of 2/3 to 1/3 seems reasonable to me. Therefore, if DCFC can raise £5m, let Dublin match it with £10m. Or, if Dublin won't do that, let DCFC reapply to join the IL and apply for £10m to Stormont. Whichever way, as a UK taxpayer, I object to IL clubs being deprived of up to £5m for a club which plays outside the UK, when IL clubs cannot benefit correspondingly from Dublin money.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I think that's a good compromise.

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The compromise has already been made: i.e. a club located in one juridiction being permitted to play in a League in another jurisdiction. Whilst not unique, this is still very rare and DCFC have always seemed happy enough with it until now.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Some dogmatic people don't like compromise, they want to manically cry foul or betrayal.

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If you're referring to me as being "dogmatic", I prefer the term "principled". And I have no objection to "compromise", so long as it is fair. I think it is fair to allow DCFC to play in the LOI, but unfair to be eligible for two sets of Govt funding, unlike every other club on the island. And whilst I have called "foul" on this issue (though not "betrayal"), I hardly think I have been "manic". In fact, it is you who appears to be using extravagant and perjorative phraseology which might better be termed "manic".

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Originally Posted by geysir

I would hope the DCFC application is judged on its merits with a rational inspection of the project plans.

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Agree. But only once we've established the principles by which a rational assessment of the plans might be applied.
And I hope you know by now what I think of the "principles" in this case!

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Originally Posted by kingdom hoop

EG, say you went to a club with a mate but got separated during the course of the night. At the end you stumble singly, a touch forlornly, out on to the street just in time to see your friend get into a taxi with two well-endowed ladies. At this moment would you start running after the taxi yelling, "you're not entitled to them; you're nothing special", or would you halt for a moment and allow a little smirk to cross your face as you admired your friend's gumption? :)

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I wouldn't give a stuff, as long as the cute hoor didn't expect me to pay his taxi fare, as well....:eek:

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

1) Derry City are arguably entitled to two sets of funding, unique in comparison to other clubs on the island, because they are in a unique posiiton on the island. The reason why peopke keep mentioning what happened to City in the Irish League isn't to rake up old grievances, as you assert, but to explain to you how we ended-up in such a unique position against out will.

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That's a fair point I think.

You argue that Derry are entitled to two sets of funding because of their unique position in Irish football. I fully agree that their position is unique. You then go on to explain exactly why they are entitled to funding from the Northern Ireland authorities-

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

2) As a sports club, a community institution and a tax-paying business within Northern Ireland we are operfectly entitled to seek funding from the NI authorities. We woulsn't be entitled to Irish League funding - but we're not looking for that. Again I reiterate - you may not like us seekign Stormnont money, but give me one good reaosn why a sporting body based in the north and paying tax in the north should not be entitled to funding in the north ??

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I agree with every point you made here, and I've already mentioned them on this thread.

But I'd like you to add a third paragraph, one which outlines with the same clarity why Derry are entitled to money from the ROI government (apart from the kind of funding we've seen given to eL clubs in the past, with which this figure of 5 million is not comparable) for their regeneration project. None of the reasons from paragraph 2 are applicable.

Some Derry fans have mentioned their 'contribution to the sporting culture of the island', and others have, laughably in my opinion, pointed to the money the team and fans spend south of the border. On what basis do you see Derry as being entitled to such funds?

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

People in Cork might not like being reminded that the government doesn't sit there.

As for DCFC. I see no problem in them getting funding for the Irish government. We are not all partitionists in Louth.

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makes sense putting in 5m now to regenerate the area rather than when we have a united ireland and it will cost us a lot more in the future due to inflation etc