Sounds like they are some distance from agreement... What are the stumbling blocks? Has Trevor Sargeant requested Toyota Prius for all Ministers instead of Mercs? :D
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Sounds like they are some distance from agreement... What are the stumbling blocks? Has Trevor Sargeant requested Toyota Prius for all Ministers instead of Mercs? :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Very least he should be demanding. Maybe he wants all the bread in the canteen to be from Sonairte.
Posturing methinks.
However, if the Greens back out, it will be very significant.
It would be very tough for Rabitte or Howlin to then sign up.
A FF/Harney and Grealish / Independents government would nearly be as rocky as Endas proposed coalition.
Another election please.
This coalition government practice is ridiculous imo.
the alternative is bipartisan politics, the plague of the Worlds Greatest Nation TMQuote:
Originally Posted by Risteard
Or genuine PR like the North.
The tree-huggers have quit the talks process, which means that because of our electoral system, we're back to where we started 5 weeks ago. Nowhere.
They wanted billions to "bring our education into the 21st century" yet they want to stop road building and keep many roads in the 18th century.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
It wasn't enough for clever Trevor to save a rain forest by writing his notes on his hands!!!!
I am surprised a deal has not been done as FF don;t stand for anything so can make a deal with anyone. Its like they have any core principles unless you include corporate "donations/loans/gift grubs"
Right little Ogra meeting going on here.
Given a straight choice between money for roads or money for education (which I don't think is what anyone is advocating in any event) I'll plump for education every time ...and for sound economic reasons -not to suit my construction buddy clients.Quote:
They wanted billions to "bring our education into the 21st century" yet they want to stop road building and keep many roads in the 18th century
...yeah we'd be better off with the UKs first past the post system. Fianna Fail or Fine Gael ...it's wide open.:rolleyes:Quote:
The tree-huggers have quit the talks process, which means that because of our electoral system, we're back to where we started 5 weeks ago. Nowhere.
The real alternative is BohsPartisan politics! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4103/bppea7.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
edit: isnt it strange, we can put in full videos and music, but not a simple picture?
:D lolQuote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Well, at least it would be better than voting for a one party state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie
1987: FF 1989: FF, 1992: FF,
1997: FF 2002: FF, 2007?? FF :rolleyes:
There must be something seriously wrong with our election system, when the French and Germans know who's won after a couple of hours, and that after 5 weeks of electioneering, canvassing, begging, voting, counting, re-counting, and debating on a small island, we've got...
Nowhere. :rolleyes:
you understand a consistant government does not equal a one part state, right? should the other parties not bother turning up to the dail?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Because of an untrustable voting system. I'll stick with paper and pencil if it's all the same. I can't trust it 100%, but I can trust it better than a computer system; and I'm no luddite, I actually know how computers work.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
For someone so outspoken about political issues, you don't actually seem to understand the subject very well. Tying the timeliness of the vote with the time it takes to form a goverment is utterly nonsensical, for example.Quote:
after 5 weeks of electioneering, canvassing, begging, voting, counting, re-counting, and debating on a small island, we've got Nowhere.
adam
So we should bring in First Past the Post voting to reduce the chances of Fianna Fáil getting into government? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Better still, do like ice hockey and when you get into Government, you aren't allowed to run next time.
There's the same chance of a computer affecting a vote, as a politician stealing votes in a paper ballot to get the result he needs. Our system is subject to re-counts, and results in changed seats.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
€50 million of our money was spent on a system we're not allowed to use, so how did we punish the Minister responsible??
Vote him in again!! :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Do you see a stage where we can use electronic voting, it seems to make sence to me. What needs to be in the system for you to have faith in it?
I don't know what technological changes are ahead, so I can't comment on the future, only what's available right now; and the technology that's available right now can't be trusted. At all -- I don't agree with the majority of the anti-evoting lobby, who say that if the software and hardware specs are open, they can be reviewed and therefore the system can be secured*.
That's a very naive, academic point of view that doesn't cater for the source of the majority of fraud these days: social engineering. I absolutely guaranteee that I could walk into one of the locations where the eVoting machines are stored and walk out with one on a trolley. I absolutely guarantee that I could have walked into a polling station with it later.
Ballot box elections are open to this kind of fraud too, but you can't infect one ballot box from another. You can win a seat with a ballot box election, with difficulty. You can't win a government. Which is more important?
adam
* Which isn't the same as saying they shouldn't be open. Of course they should. Closed Government is the same as dictatorship, in my opinion.
I think eVoting has been messed up so much by Cullen that would be very difficult to implement for a long time due to public scepticism. I could not believe when I heard recently that the Department of Environment did no tests on the delivery system whatsoever. They were clearly clueless about what they really wanted or needed & even worse did not seem to care one way or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
:rolleyes:
Seems like FF off to try cut a deal (aka bribe) with Independents & PDs now. Its hard to see if the Greens would not swallow a "co-located" Health system how McGrath & Gregory will accept. Its a given that Lowry, Flynn (bankruptcy court case coming soon) & Healy-Rae can be bought off as they have no ideological stances.
Be a hoot if they weren't able to form a government. I know it'd be a mess, but still, a hoot.
Course if we went back to the polls we'd probably end up with a FF majority, given the recent history of our dumber-than-dumb electorate.
You know what I was thinking the same thing Adam and, as much as I loathe FF and all they, erm, stand for -I'm beginning to think it might not be such a bad thing in the medium to long term.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
A term in office on their own, albeit probably a curtailed one due to one or other of them getting caught with a hand in the till -will possibly result in their utter decimation at the next election. Now who'd benefit from that decimation is moot.
But whoever comes in would have a lot of damage to sweep up and useless machinery to get rid of.
If Bertie cuts the deal with all his ex-FF mates, the majority will be so weak, together with the Mahon tribunal, and Flynn's court case, it'll probably last 6 months, before we'll be into another election. There's more to this, than just making up the numbers...Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
Papers suggest FF will try to weaken the opposition further by nominating Brendan Howlin or Ruari Quinn for Ceann Comhairle or perhaps Tony Gregory.
[QUOTE=Lionel Ritchie;700965]Right little Ogra meeting going on here.
Given a straight choice between money for roads or money for education (which I don't think is what anyone is advocating in any event) I'll plump for education every time ...and for sound economic reasons -not to suit my construction buddy clients.
Unfortunately we need better roads to cater for greater mobility and to spread employment around the country. No point having one of the best educated workforces in the world if they can't get employment. BTW there is plenty of money to cater for everyone. It's how it's used that's the problem and personally I blame the Civil Servants. They'll build empires for themselves but they won't do anything that will put their next promotion at risk. They'll keep pushing files around and never make a decision.
Don't know if its been mentioned elsewhere but Finian McGrath has certainly revealed himself as a spineless wimp by backing down on two of his main campaign issues (Shannon and co-location of private hospitals) when Bertie's lads came calling.
Pathetic.
At least Healy-Rae and Lowry have no qualms about admitting their support is bought by a shopping list of local projects for their constituency.
A FF-PD-Ind coalition is surely the worst possible outcome with no effective challenge on a national level to FF's policies.
What an excellent idea!Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Then all decisions would be made for the good of the nation instead of simply to secure votes for the next election...
I'm in favour of there being provision in the constitution of a recall referendum where you get a certain percentage of signatures you can call an election (by/general/local/whatever).Quote:
Originally Posted by monutdfc
Bertie and Trevor talking an hour after Trevor said he couldn't see it. Adjourned until tomorrow. Deadlines have come and gone and still he show goes on:rolleyes:
I suppose the Greens principles would include the following:
- Opposed to Corporate donations
- Carbon Taxes & carbon reductions
- Anti-War (e.g Shannon refueling)
- Ant-Motorways (e.g. Hill of Tara)
Which ones will they have to compromise on?
I was away for a week directly after the election. Within minutes of landing and hearing that people's choice who are notorious for 4th and 5th preferences (transfer votes) are in talks with those who get a lot of seats and 1st preferences depressed me more than the rain upon arrival.
Can we not vote in a definitive and simple government (irrespective of whether they're liked by everyone) quickly like everybody else in this weird world just this once?
Why the eye roll?Quote:
Originally Posted by onceahoop
Its FF that are doing the begging now. Sergeant has played it very well to date. He called Bertie's bluff and FF came back with their tails between their legs.
Unfortunately other news tonight that Healy-Rae has returned to Kerry with his palm crossed with lots of silver....... No doubt any more anti-publican legislation is off the agenda for 5 years.
Is there anywhere left to bypass down there?
This will be what FF offer. Tax at the petrol pump and re-route Tara motorway. This isn't too much for them to give away. They won't budge on Shannon or corporate donations.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
If the government last 5 years in the next election FF will sayQuote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
- Its the Greens fault all those Motorways still unfinished.
- Tax increases on petrol are the Greens fault.
Possibly but I have a feeling the Greens are desperate for power. Though getting their party membership to agree is another thing. Don't they need a two thirds majority or something like that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
FF don't need the Greens now. Bertie will be elected one way or the other on Thursday. the Greens will fold to be in Government.
They may not need the Greens on Thursday but a coalition without the Greens isn't going to see them through 5 years of Government.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
There's only one side folding and its FF.
They can form a government without the greens but it won't exactly be stable. Jackie Healy Rae could pop his clogs at any time and Beverly Cooper Flynn could be declared bankrupt meaning she'd lose her seat. On top of that, the demands of Independents are more volatile and rective to the demands of a particular constituency.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
We'll see, if a program for government is agreed. Can't see FF giving in on major issues. We'll have loads of reviews, committees etc set up, that type of thing. Greens will get Environment, none of the really important ministries.