Dublin Port tunnel

[Macy]

i repeat, when did the politicians ever come out and explain why the cost was going up when they made the changes? If the impression is there that they didn't tell the truth, it's because they fookin didn't! If they were adding stations, why not come out and say the cost implications when they decide it? The only possible explaination is that they use these things to hide genuine overruns.

[Plastic Paddy]

Another good point but isnt it now common around the world that the 1435mm is standard? DART tracks were laid in the goold old days of her majesty I think and are built to some old english rules??? Could be wrong but I thought to keep everything at the 1600mm gauge would have been silly or where did I hear that ?

The 4' 8" gauge (1435 mm) was the gauge used by early horse-drawn railways in the coalmines of the north-east of England when George Stephenson developed his prototype steam engines. The world's first steam-powered railway was the Stockton and Darlington Railway of 1830, which used the gauge and since British money and the Empire spread railways around the world, this gauge was eventually adopted as standard.

The situation in Ireland is different as you know. This is from Answers.com which does the subject more justice than I:

The track gauge adopted by the mainline railways of Ireland is 1600 mm (5 ft 3 in). This unusual gauge is otherwise found only in the Australian states of Victoria and South Australia (where it was introduced by the Irish railway engineer F. W. Shields), and in Brazil.

The first three railways had lines of three different gauges, the dimensions being : the Dublin and Kingstown Railway, 4 ft 8½ in (1435 mm); the Ulster Railway, 6 ft 2 in (1880 mm); and the Dublin and Drogheda Railway, 5 ft 2 in (1575 mm). The Board of Trade, recognising the chaos that would ensue asked one of their officers to advise. He consulted widely and eliminating the widest and narrowest gauges (Brunel's 7'0 1/4" and Stephenson's 4'8½"), all other answers lay between 5'0" and 5'6". By spliting the difference, a compromise Irish standard gauge of 5 ft 3 in (1600 mm) was reached. The gauge of the Ulster Railway was altered about 1846, and that of the Dublin and Kingstown Railway in 1857, the alteration costing the latter company £38,000.

Numerous narrow-gauge systems were built around Ireland, usually to a gauge of 3 feet (914 mm). Most are now closed, including what was the largest narrow-gauge system in Ireland or the U.K.: those operated by the County Donegal Railways Joint Committee. The Irish narrow gauge today survives as heritage railways in both the Republic and in Northern Ireland; and, in the Republic, in the bogs of the Midlands as part of Bord na Móna's peat transport network.

There's more at http://www.answers.com/topic/history...ort-in-ireland if you're interested. Or even still awake...

PP

[pete]

I can't wait til Luas construction on College Green starts as will some nasty gridlock caused by it as College Green is the real centre of the city.

[Bald Student]

i repeat, when did the politicians ever come out and explain why the cost was going up when they made the changes?

Here's an example, there's plenty more if you look. http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp...g=ENG&loc=1345

Revised Budget

By the end of 2002, the required budget was revised to €691 million. The reasons for this revised budget included the redesign of the Luas facilities at Connolly Station. The new Connolly Station will be a major public transport integration hub where interchange of mainline rail, DART, Luas and bus services will take place.

Contract Dates

The contractual completion dates are October 2003 for the Tallaght line and December 2003 for the Sandyford line. The contractor has informed the RPA that these dates can not be met and that early 2004 is a more realistic date for both lines.

I agree that FF have made a complete mess of the PR of the luas and tunnel but they've not been helped by the newspapers who've made false claims or the opposition politiacians who repeated them.

As for gauge, I presume that the european standard was used because the trains were available 'off the shelf' where as to build them for Irish gauge would have costed more to get the trains designed specially. The metro is being built to luas gauge now so it's a problem were stuck with. Incidentally the 4 foot 8 inch gauge was originally used by the romans as the wheel base for their chatiots, it being the average width of two horses backsides.

[Bald Student]

I'm in two minds on the issue of seperate lines. It'd be nice now if they were linked but there was enough disruption when it was being built first day digging up about half the city centre at the same time would have been a nightmare.

[pete]

Incidentally the 4 foot 8 inch gauge was originally used by the romans as the wheel base for their chatiots, it being the average width of two horses backsides.

I've heard that before.

[Bald Student]

I've heard that before.

I only heard it last night. The electrical engineer from the tunnel was giving us a talk and went out of his way to bring up the topic of trains, just so as he could tell us his joke.

Did you know they'll dim the tunnel lights to half brightness at night? I tought that was funny.

[Plastic Paddy]

As for gauge, I presume that the european standard was used because the trains were available 'off the shelf' where as to build them for Irish gauge would have costed more to get the trains designed specially. The metro is being built to luas gauge now so it's a problem were stuck with. Incidentally the 4 foot 8 inch gauge was originally used by the romans as the wheel base for their chatiots, it being the average width of two horses backsides.

Bang on. The Luas trams are from Alstom's Citadis range, at least 50% cheaper than any custom build. http://www.railway-technology.com/pr...n/dublin2.html

Consolidation in the worldwide railway market means that only a few key players still build rolling stock here in Europe. Iarnród Eireann is in the middle of a complete rolling stock replacement programme and many of IE's new DMUs and EMUs (for the DART) come from Mitsui of Japan,although CAF of Barcelona still supply a number of cars.

Certainly from a British perspective the market to Ireland has died since the Mk 3s (those are the newer InterCity carriages in real speak) were built in the late 1980s and early 1990s. BREL (the main supplier of those carriages) used to claim that it wasn't actually that expensive to re-gauge their stock for Ireland but obviously the European companies are having a harder time building competitively against the new mainly south-east Asian players.

I'm in two minds on the issue of seperate lines. It'd be nice now if they were linked but there was enough disruption when it was being built first day digging up about half the city centre at the same time would have been a nightmare.

On the issue of digging up the city centre to link the two LUAS lines, as with all on-street light rail schemes you have to see the bigger picture... simply, the eighteen months or so disamenity that would be caused while construction was underway would be far outweighed by the benefits accruing from the number of potential interchange journeys that would be made afterwards and in perpetuity. Ten years ago usage of 10,000 journeys each way at peak times was predicted between the Tallaght and Sandyford lines. Well worth it on that basis alone. Who knows what the figure could be now? Think about the number of cars that could take off the roads...

PP

[Bald Student]

On the issue of digging up the city centre to link the two LUAS lines, as with all on-street light rail schemes you have to see the bigger picture... simply, the eighteen months or so disamenity that would be caused while construction was underway would be far outweighed by the benefits accruing from the number of potential interchange journeys that would be made afterwards and in perpetuity. Ten years ago usage of 10,000 journeys each way at peak times was predicted between the Tallaght and Sandyford lines. Well worth it on that basis alone. Who knows what the figure could be now? Think about the number of cars that could take off the roads...

I agree, what I meant to say was that I think digging up the city in two seperate digs is probably better than one big dig.

[higgins]

Yes I knew the difference in the gauge was for a reason, thanks for the explanation above. So if you think that LUAS had of went with 1600 to keep it in line with other tracks in Ireland what would the claims have been from opposition?

No doubt they would be backward FF not keeping pace with the rest of the world and leaving us now paying through the nose for wider gauge trains etc etc .

If the opposition didnt act like children we may actually see what the facts are. A comment above about lack of updates is strange as the six one news is hardly going to carry every little change in construction projects around the country. Im sure the information is out there if you want it.

Again its not a FF v non FF question as I think they would all do as good or as bad a job. The opposition have not exactly come up with any plans of their own have they?? If they had something to show us the country would be in better shape but 90% of the time goes towards tripping up the current lot. You wouldnt see that carry on in a primary school..

[Student Mullet]

bottom line

I believe that the current govenrment have been in power for too long and could do with a freshining up in opposition but I don't trust the current opposition with running the country. For that reason I will vote for Liz O'Donnell in the next election.

If any opposition politician says that the tunnell or the luas or any ither project is over budjet, let them say what they would have done to keep them in budjet.

[Macy]

Here's an example, there's plenty more if you look. http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp...g=ENG&loc=1345

So Brennan held a press conference, and made sure it got the same coverage as his €200m for 3 lines launch did?

[Bald Student]

So Brennan held a press conference, and made sure it got the same coverage as his €200m for 3 lines launch did?

Brennan held a press conferance. How much coverage it got was up to the press. You can understand a journalist ignoring a boring story but there is no excuse for an opposition politician ignoring facts which don't agree with their arguments.