LOI in Europe 2022

[pineapple stu]

A bit of a reality check is in order here. Not every team in the EL group stages is as good as Ferencvaros. They're CL regulars.

No they're not. They've been in it twice - once in 1995, and once in 2020 when they got one point

[Jd2793]

any team with sean hoare at cb once at this stage of europe is on for a hiding. until irish clubs can offer better wages for foreign talent we'll not lay a glove on teams like this, only hope is a lucky draw.

[legendz]

Are you trying to work out which group will be easier to qualify from?

I don't think it's pessimistic to suggest that's getting way ahead of yourself

Prior to tonight's match, trying to work out the gap to EL group stage or finishing 2nd in the ECL group stage.
I'm sure LoI clubs in the league path will have ambition to try and improve on the 3rd qualifying round. Difficult but no harm in ambition with grounded reality that even getting past the first two rounds is fraught with danger.
Many will have seen Rovers getting past the CL first round, making the EL playoffs and ECL group stage as achievable. So it has transpired.
Just as there is a gap in the league path from Q3 to playoffs, there is a gap in the champions path to the EL group stage and there will also be a gap to 2nd in the ECL group stage.
Tonight's result gives a clear picture of the task Rovers will have in trying to finishing higher than 3rd. Should LoI league champions go forward with no ambition to try and close that gap?

[Philosophizer]

No they're not. They've been in it twice - once in 1995, and once in 2020 when they got one point

Fair enough, I stand corrected. I thought I had seen them in the group stages more than once in recent years.
But just because they gave Rovers a tonking tonight doesn't mean Rovers would be embarrassed like that in an EL group.

[pineapple stu]

But just because they gave Rovers a tonking tonight doesn't mean Rovers would be embarrassed like that in an EL group.

Yeah, you can't really judge how a whole group might go based on that. Though on the other hand, they might (2011 didn't go great for example).

Redundant for the moment anyway.

The coefficient update is that we're back down to 38th as sides from Finland and Bosnia both won tonight. But what's more important is who's likely to be in the group stages where there's more points to be had (given that Rovers already are there). Of the sides below us, Armenia and Lithuania are in the Conference League at a minimum. Malta and Luxembourg won't reach the groups, Liechtenstein might after a 1-1 home draw but it's odds against, the viciously dangerous Shkupi lost at home to a Kosovan side so against odds against there, and Linfield are probably slight favourites despite conceding twice in injury time.

Above us - Belarus' crash continues; all their teams are out of Europe already. Finland have qualified, but the Bosnian side have to go to Slovan Bratislava and hold on to a 1-0 lead next week to get there. Moldova have qualified, Kosovo and Latvia we've seen above (v North Macedonia and North Ireland). There's a big gap then to Slovenia - Maribor are 0-0 after the home leg against Cluj, which isn't a great result, but at 2.875 ahead of us, I think we're unlikely to bridge that gap.

[oriel]

A bit of a reality check is in order here. Not every team in the EL group stages is as good as Ferencvaros. They're CL regulars. And Rovers were missing more than half their team.
Dundalk got into the group's in 2016 and 2020 and didn't suffer any drubbings that bad. They actually got a few points. Even the matches they lost in 2016 group stages there was never more than 1 goal in it.
And in 2020 they scored plenty of goals in the group too and came very close to getting results. The 3-4 away match against Rapid Wien especially could have gone either way.
If Rovers had a fully fit team tonight they probably would have still lost but it wouldn't have been anywhere near so one sided.

That was a really bad call by Filipo (whom I was at a live podcast show last night and who spoke very well) he rested Rogers and McCarey was at fault for two, not saying should have won, could have maybe but it was a point lost for sure, maybe could drawn v them at Aviva, but apart from that it was a competitive group, Molde was another one lost 2-1 in Tallaght and 1-0 up, Arsenal no chance but did well to score 2 v them at Aviva 'as FG said last night, most were still celebrating the cup final win'.

2016 DFC were in contention (long shot) at the last game away in Israel, but the obv good win v Macabi and the draw away to AZ, points are very hard won in any group stage, thats for sure.

Rovers might end up having a better chance of getting their first ever points in a group stage in the Conference Group, plus will they really care, 3m prize banked regardless, good going by any standards.

Just looking forward to getting back to Europe next season, hopefully a few more wins should put us in the driving seat, can't see lower than 3rd, but who knows.

[CSAD]

That was a really bad call by Filipo (whom I was at a live podcast show last night and who spoke very well) he rested Rogers and McCarey was at fault for two, not saying should have won, could have maybe but it was a point lost for sure, maybe could drawn v them at Aviva, but apart from that it was a competitive group, Molde was another one lost 2-1 in Tallaght and 1-0 up, Arsenal no chance but did well to score 2 v them at Aviva 'as FG said last night, most were still celebrating the cup final win'.

2016 DFC were in contention (long shot) at the last game away in Israel, but the obv good win v Macabi and the draw away to AZ, points are very hard won in any group stage, thats for sure.

Rovers might end up having a better chance of getting their first ever points in a group stage in the Conference Group, plus will they really care, 3m prize banked regardless, good going by any standards.

Just looking forward to getting back to Europe next season, hopefully a few more wins should put us in the driving seat, can't see lower than 3rd, but who knows.

How many times is it now in the last few years where Rovers looked totally unprepared for Europe and end up bottling it? That’s 4 big away games already in just 2 seasons… It seems Rovers are good enough to do the job when they are the better side (ie in the league and against middling European sides) but when they come up against similar or better teams they get completely overrun every single time…what was disappointing tonight and even against Ludogorets was the lack of fight or commitment, they just didn’t have the heart to dig in when the going got tough and even tonight tbh it could have been 6 or 7 of Ferenvaros finished better.

[paul_oshea]

When I saw they smashed Fehervar 4-0 the other day (who are 2-1 up away to Koln) and Adama Traore is scoring for fun since he joined, I did worry for Rovers. Then when I saw it was 36c up to KO, I thought they could get a hiding. These guys had already done 3 rounds in the CL and are a EL group side all day long.

Not sure I agree with the OP about dropping out now and saving getting smashed in 6 games. You want to be in the groups and the more times you are, the better you will get. Experience in games at this level and then some consistency in getting to the groups, are only good for a club’s progression. Maybe they will lose all 6, maybe they won’t, but you have to be in it to have a chance.

That's not the traore you're thinking of . It was mentioned before the game theyre still technically pre season or there abouts and it showed against qarabag

[ger121]

That's not the traore you're thinking of . It was mentioned before the game theyre still technically pre season or there abouts and it showed against qarabag

I know that Paul! They have a big budget but not signing Wolves’ players big budget. I just read last week that he has scored a few goals already after a handful of games so thought he would be their danger man.

Anyway, despite their 4-0 loss, they are in a position any of us would love our clubs to be in. It must be such an exciting time as a supporter, when you know you have 6 games to play and a draw for your group Friday week. The Autumn is full of such potential and you can dare to dream of big nights ahead.

[Philosophizer]

How many times is it now in the last few years where Rovers looked totally unprepared for Europe and end up bottling it? That’s 4 big away games already in just 2 seasons… It seems Rovers are good enough to do the job when they are the better side (ie in the league and against middling European sides) but when they come up against similar or better teams they get completely overrun every single time

Tonight had much more to do with ability than bottle. The Ferencvaros players were just much better. Simple.
Rovers were definitely hampered by missing players, and the heat probably hurt them too, but a fully fit Rovers best 11 would have fared better.
Every now and again there's an upset, like when they beat Brann a couple of years ago but it's no surprise that the better team usually wins the game, that's what's supposed to happen
Tonight was probably the most one sided game I've seen from a LOI team in Europe since Dundalk got hockeyed in Larnaca in 2018. Probably not a coincidence that that game was also played in about 35 degree heat, and it ended up 4-0 also.

[EatYerGreens]

How many times is it now in the last few years where Rovers looked totally unprepared for Europe and end up bottling it?

As an aside, it's a pet hate of mine that the whole "bottling it" phrase is so hackneyed and over-used in football to a cringeworthy extent (as above).

Rovers didn't 'bottle it' tonight. They lost to a team who are significantly better than them, and who would probably beat them 99 times out of every 100 that they played. Bottling it is when you're up to the task in-hand but you succumb to the spotlight/attention/pressure etc and so lose. By no credible definition would that explain what happened to Rovers tonight.

Apparently Ferencvaros have spent £40m assembling their squad. What have Rovers spent on their's ?

NEWS FLASH : Sport is about winning and losing (and occasionally drawing). Usually when a team loses it's because they weren't good enough and the outcome was the only fair result. That doesn't mean they 'bottled it' FFS

[CSAD]

As an aside, it's a pet hate of mine that the whole "bottling it" phrase is so hackneyed and over-used in football to a cringeworthy extent (as above).

Rovers didn't 'bottle it' tonight. They lost to a team who are significantly better than them, and who would probably beat them 99 times out of every 100 that they played. Bottling it is when you're up to the task in-hand but you succumb to the spotlight/attention/pressure etc and so lose. By no credible definition would that explain what happened to Rovers tonight.

Apparently Ferencvaros have spent £40m assembling their squad. What have Rovers spent on their's ?

NEWS FLASH : Sport is about winning and losing (and occasionally drawing). Usually when a team loses it's because they weren't good enough and the outcome was the only fair result. That doesn't mean they 'bottled it' FFS

Except you miss the point once again, this loss is almost in identical fashion to the way they got smashed in Tallinn last season…just look at the goals they conceded last night ffs, how anyone can sit here and not be critical I find incredible, weather they have a better squad or not is completely beside the point, it doesn’t mean you just give up and let them run all over you, the way Rovers played last night of they performed like that in Tallinn they probably would have got steam rolled a 2nd time like they did last year and pretty much like they always do in Europe.

The lack of organization or putting together even basic pieces of play is bottling it, I think you are letting them off the hook far too easily on this one.

The point is you won’t see many teams get as badly beat as Rovers did last night or see many teams roll over as easily as Rovers did last night, that’s the point, Flora didn’t spend 40+ million on their squad and they still trashed Rovers.

Look at the goal Rovers conceded last night, Even if there is a gap in quality a team of lesser quality can at least try to bridge the gap by making themselves hard to beat, Rovers don’t do that and in fact it’s the opposite, they are incredibly easy to beat as there is a real lack of sufficient coaching ability in the squad that gets exposed in Europe when Rovers play better or similar level teams. If you look at the goals Ferencvaros scored, it wasn’t like they picked apart the rovers defender, the first 3 at least were just down to absolutely laughable defending from Rovers. How many times to Rovers need to have embarrassing away performances in Europe before some fans get the point or are you just going to continue digging you’re head in the sand and act as if nothing is wrong?

[CSAD]

Tonight had much more to do with ability than bottle. The Ferencvaros players were just much better. Simple.
Rovers were definitely hampered by missing players, and the heat probably hurt them too, but a fully fit Rovers best 11 would have fared better.
Every now and again there's an upset, like when they beat Brann a couple of years ago but it's no surprise that the better team usually wins the game, that's what's supposed to happen
Tonight was probably the most one sided game I've seen from a LOI team in Europe since Dundalk got hockeyed in Larnaca in 2018. Probably not a coincidence that that game was also played in about 35 degree heat, and it ended up 4-0 also.

Ummm did you not see the first 3 goals? Im sorry but that was down to not being capable of even basic defending at this level…but keep burying you’re head in the sand if that makes you feel better.

They may have been hampered but they were also hampered by the poor quality of organization they have which they get away with in the league but getting totally found out by in Europe.

I just wonder, how many atrocious performances like this need to happen in Europe before people start questioning the coaches? I’ve already counted 4 in the last 2 seasons, would another 3 this year suffice or do we need another couple next season on top of it?

[Nesta99]

Was able to see bits of the game this evening (in Coventry with couple of Wolves fans so go figure). Im not sure whether it was classic LoI in Europe or whether there was some genuine bad luck 1st goal which broke the seal. Ye could argue that a keeper shouldnt be beaten at his near post but the ball breaking loose at the back post and Mannus nearly closed off a piledriver that hit the only spot that was beating the keeper. 2nd was just the defence spliting ball, pace running on, cut back and tap in that few would defend, didnt see what led up to it. 3rd was very LoI, scramble back on a 3 on 2 when pushing on, keeper looks to have saved the day and boot a clearance to an opposition player and its a tap in. If Mannus wanted a couple more years on top money outside of LoI he did his chances no harm as some of the last ditch saves prevented a really chastening result. The 4th just looked a good strike beyond the keepers reach. Rovers didnt look completely out of their depth and at times had some ok phases, a fully fit squad to pick from and it could have been in the mix for the 2nd leg. Rovers were ruthlessly punished for any error and after the 3rd just go for broke and could have been 6+. Doesnt suit Dundalk that the tie is done, would have be grand for it to be still in the mix but now Rovers can cut their losses, throw the lot in on Sunday and could play the U19s next Thursday. I dont think a complete gut was busted tonight after being 2 down in a half hour, Sundays game in mind probably, and the free hit done with ECL groups secured and to come no matter.

[Shinkicker]

A bit of a reality check is in order here. Not every team in the EL group stages is as good as Ferencvaros. They're CL regulars. And Rovers were missing more than half their team.
Dundalk got into the group's in 2016 and 2020 and didn't suffer any drubbings that bad. They actually got a few points. Even the matches they lost in 2016 group stages there was never more than 1 goal in it.
And in 2020 they scored plenty of goals in the group too and came very close to getting results. The 3-4 away match against Rapid Wien especially could have gone either way.
If Rovers had a fully fit team tonight they probably would have still lost but it wouldn't have been anywhere near so one sided.

OK I think the word TANKED might have upset you so change it to beaten 6 times, now what's the difference? Tell me how many games Dundalk won in their campaigns combined? If Ferencvaros are regulars after 2 appearances in group stages then that makes Dundalk regulars too. Really they are both not regulars.
Finally if Rovers had a fully fit squad available Ferencvaros would have won by the same score. They looked like they could turn it up at any time and certainly took their foot of the gas in the second half. Believe me when I say I want ALL LOI teams to do well in Europe. Its great for our league, player experience and a boosted attraction to bring in new supporters for our clubs. We as a league are close ohh so close but personally I think we are 3-4 years away from group stage success.