Irish League clubs in Europe?

[David]

Linfield were back in training barely a month after their last league game and as far as I am aware none of our players were unavailable due to being on holiday. We (yet again) met a team that are a class act and one that I would say would beat any LOI team.

[EalingGreen]

And judging by this thread, IL clubs are now DEPENDENT on their Christmas fixture list. To me that's a sorry state of affairs.

So are we not even going to qualify for Christmas now?

Jeez, our Co-Efficient must be even worse than I'd thought...

[mypost]

I'm sure you're right about Summer football having helped the LOI in this respect, but there are many other considerations for the IL than just Europe, so it may not be desirable for us.

Such as?

The way I see that league is as a wasteland, where Linfield routinely walk the championship, the crowds are crap, their European performances and attitude is crap, the players treat the game as a hobby rather than a profession, and the clubs have no ambition. The only thing going for it, is that they play on Saturdays.

Some are family men, but even those who aren't need a break, too.
As for a holiday at Christmas - that is silly, since the IL plays games then, often to the biggest crowds of the season.

The Christmas break would apply in the case of summer football. We all need a break, but people in other jobs are lucky to get a 2 week break once a year, why should footballers get more? It's a job, not a pastime.

The LOI is full of part-time players who have to get on with playing summer football. It's much better to be playing in the sun in July than the snow and storms in January.

[De Town]

The way I see that league is as a wasteland, where Linfield routinely walk the championship

Yeah, like last season..

[Steve Bruce]

Finally you admit the LOI is a better league

Great input, took you a while.

I think if you had of opened your eyes you would see that I have admitted that quite a number of times.

[Steve Bruce]

TBH if an amateur LOI club like Wexford Youths were playing in Europe, I'd expect them to give Zestafoni a much better game than what Lisburn did. You're assuming that IL clubs need to go full-time to make progress. I think it's a lot simplier than that. All you need to do is to start fielding sides that are physically match fit. Yes IL sides won't be playing Champions League football within the next 50 years but surely there is an onus on the clubs to make an attempt to compete. I don't see why there is such a reluctance to change.

As for the financial state of the top LOI clubs; there were sources of money available to clubs in the past that are no longer there. If these clubs wish to continue as full-time teams they need to maximise their takings from their European ties. The article you highlight just repeats what everyone is already aware of. And judging by this thread, IL clubs are now DEPENDENT on their Christmas fixture list. To me that's a sorry state of affairs.

Who said anything about being dependent on the Christmas fixture list? As far as I can see, it was only stated that this is normally the time that the league gets it's highest attendances.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Surely the woeful IL performances again emphasise the need for an AIL to play against 'better' teams more consistently, as in the might of the LOI who are currently better!

Still look forward to the usual response from the usual suspects why they're 'better off' festering in isolation....

[Dodge]

Great input, took you a while.

I think if you had of opened your eyes you would see that I have admitted that quite a number of times.

Relax Steve (what is it with northerners with steve in their handle?)

I was joking...

[jinxy lilywhite]

Would a slight change in the calendar for IL clubs not improve or make them more competitive in Europe. If they changeed their season from Aug to May to a season beginning in the end of June/ beginning of july which played up until end of march to beginning of April, like what we had here before the switch to summer football.

I don't think performances in Europe should the be all and end all for clubs. some teams here did have a pipe dream of playing in cl group stages or europa league but this will never happen because while we may be close on the pitch (ie one stage away from the groups) but off the pitch our clubs are so far behind that it is breaking them or will break them.

[EalingGreen]

Surely the woeful IL performances

Not quite all "woeful":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/8150896.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/8151432.stm

the need for an AIL to play against 'better' teams more consistently, as in the might of the LOI who are currently better!

Actually, the willingness of IL clubs to contest the Setanta Cup illustrates that they are not averse to an AIL in principle.
The problem is that no-one (on either side of the border) has yet come with a remotely workable proposal for such a League (unless, that is, you consider "Platinum T Barnum's" last effort to have been "workable"...)

Still look forward to the usual response from the usual suspects why they're 'better off' festering in isolation....

With the present disparity in standard between the two Leagues, if an AIL were implemented tomorrow, all but 3 or 4 NI sides would likely struggle badly.
Therefore, the IL needs to put its own house in better order before it could take on such a challenge.
(Or alternatively, perhaps we could wait for half the top LOI sides to implode financially, then we could "cherry pick" who we would like to join us in an AIL from those who survived... )

[EalingGreen]

Would a slight change in the calendar for IL clubs not improve or make them more competitive in Europe. If they changeed their season from Aug to May to a season beginning in the end of June/ beginning of july which played up until end of march to beginning of April, like what we had here before the switch to summer football.

Possibly, but there is a big problem with doing so. In NI, the Summer holiday season is much more entrenched around the "Twelfth Fortnight" than (I suspect) it is in ROI i.e. businesses shut down, the schools break up earlier etc.
And this is usually exacerbated by the "Marching Season", which at best competes with other activities for peoples' leisure time, and at worst causes riot and unrest etc.
Moreover, the tensions which surround the Marching Season etc causes many people who are not involved to clear off from NI entirely in July, for their annual holiday.
I personally am not averse in principle to change, but neither would I underestimate the problems of staging eg a midweek game between Linfield and Cliftonville at Solitude, a day or two after this sort of carry-on:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8148955.stm

I don't think performances in Europe should the be all and end all for clubs. some teams here did have a pipe dream of playing in cl group stages or europa league but this will never happen because while we may be close on the pitch (ie one stage away from the groups) but off the pitch our clubs are so far behind that it is breaking them or will break them.

It gives me no pleasure to say this, but I can't help wondering whether in 4 or 5 years time, we'll not be looking at a much changed/reduced LOI, and tracing many of its problems back to those European runs by Shels, DCFC and Pats etc, more specifically the unsustainable hopes and ambitions etc which they engendered?

[thischarmingman]

Believe it or not, Irish clubs have never had it so good

Bear with the following statement now: we've just witnessed a golden age for Irish domestic soccer.

Granted, the balance sheets and business headlines that propelled it may absolutely scream otherwise and render that age fool's gold. But consider this. The Uefa coefficient league ranking is based on the last five years of continental competition. In 2004, when the current cycle started, the League of Ireland was 40th of 53 European leagues. It is now 30th, the third biggest leap in that period. Only the Romanian (17 places to ninth) and Russian (15 places to sixth) leagues enjoyed greater leaps.

Full atricle at trubune.ie.

[EalingGreen]

Full atricle at trubune.ie.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Certainly, where it charts the impressive progress of LOI clubs in Europe etc, that article could be used to refute the point I am making.

On the other hand, with its allusion to "fools gold" etc, I could argue that it doesn't really contradict my speculation about (short term) on-the-field progress leading to (longer term) off-the-field regression.

Or I could simply say "Well Done!" to the LOI, but argue that their circumstances are not especially applicable to those faced by IL clubs.

[thischarmingman]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Wasn't trying to make a point, I've been following this thread with interest and throught that it was a relevant news item considering the ongoing debate. If you want my opinions on the thread, I'll try and post later when I have more time but for now I was just interested in hearing your reactions.

[EalingGreen]

for now I was just interested in hearing your reactions.

Tbh, I don't think anyone will truly be able to assess the impact of the LOI's European "push" for another 4 or 5 years.
That is, if the leading clubs can stabilise financially during that period, and emerge from the Recession etc in reasonably good shape, then as a strategy, it could be said to have been successful.

On the other hand, if a number of clubs end up going bust because they overreached themselves on the basis of European riches, then it will turn out to have been a (major) screw-up.

For let's face it, if you compare the ROI with the likes of Belgium, Scotland or even Holland etc, long-term success in Europe for clubs from smaller countries cannot be taken for granted.

Whereas, once a club goes bust, it's usually forever*.


* - Unless, of course, it's Cork you're talking about, who somehow always manage to "bob back up to the surface". Must be something to do with the name!