Stephen Kenny

[John83]

What about the ones saying not only do we have to finish above the Greeks but one of Holland & France too, what are they talking out of John83 ?

Same oriface, higher flow rate.

[paul_oshea]

Probably need to apply some backpressure to that flowable. Certainly others need to apply some forward pressure in the opposite direction.

[samhaydenjr]

When was the last time we beat a mid-ranking team like Greece home and away? Or beat a side of the calibre of France or Holland in qualifying?

You've the Germany win in 2015 as our only big win since Holland in 2001, and for home/away wins against a mid-ranking side I think you're looking at Northern Ireland in Italia 90 qualifying (who'd reached the previous World Cup)

But you reckon both could happen here? Come on.

Oh, I don't think they will - I don't think we're at the level where that's a serious possibility but if we were making good progress I think it would actually be attainable. That's why I think that it should be a benchmark for judging Kenny's performance. Now I could be overly pessimistic - maybe things start to really click over the next few months - a couple of players emerge in key areas and make their mark in the friendlies, putting us in a stronger position going into the qualifiers. But we shouldn't be talking about "improved performances" against Greece like we did against Scotland.

Now if we fall short of this mark, I would still be OK with Kenny staying on if he manages to get us in via the playoffs and we perform well in the Finals

[pineapple stu]

But still - a "benchmark for judging Kenny's performance" or a sign that "we were making good progress" would be two feats which combined we've managed once in the last 20 years?

And if we don't manage this, you'd be ok with Kenny staying on if we qualify through the playoffs and do well in the finals?

Are we going to do this with 45-goal Aaron Connolly up front?

[tetsujin1979]

Would you say that Greece are on the same level as Scotland? in 12 months time, if we compare the performances and results against both sides, how will the reflect on the manager?

[Diggs246]

Why are we throwing in the towel? This isn't us. I know the group is awful a d o know the players arnt world class but jesus we need to have more belief or i can guarantee u we won't qualify.
The only times we've ever qualified the draws been tough. Anytime we get a relatively easy one we crash and burn

[pineapple stu]

Who's throwing in the towel?

Don't mix up checking absurd optimism with throwing in the towel.

This isn't some magic fairy world where belief alone will get you through the group.

[John83]

Would you say that Greece are on the same level as Scotland? in 12 months time, if we compare the performances and results against both sides, how will the reflect on the manager?

Scotland are a bit better than Greece, though not all that much. Scotland finished the Nations League 6 points clear of us.

[Diggs246]

Who's throwing in the towel?

Don't mix up checking absurd optimism with throwing in the towel.

This isn't some magic fairy world where belief alone will get you through the group.

Most of the people on this forum have given up on automatic qualification

Its not magic if u don't believe in yourself your done before a ball is kicked

Look at the rugby v new zealand we lost games before the whistle went until Joe schmitt gave us the belief to beat them. Now we routinely beat them!

[pineapple stu]

Fortunately I'm not kicking the ball in this case, so what I believe is utterly irrelevant.

And Ireland are routinely ranked top five in rugby - it says a lot about how little that game is played that we couldn't beat the world number one for decades. And in real competition (World Cup), we still can't beat them or get past the quarter-finals despite all the belief the players may have.

So pointing out that the suggestion that progress means "we should beat Greece home and away and take four points off France/Holland or if we fail to do that then we should qualify through the play-offs and perform well at the finals" is utter gibberish isn't throwing in the towel.

There's a shade in between black and white here.

[Diggs246]

Fortunately I'm not kicking the ball in this case, so what I believe is utterly irrelevant.

And Ireland are routinely ranked top five in rugby - it says a lot about how little that game is played that we couldn't beat the world number one for decades. And in real competition (World Cup), we still can't beat them or get past the quarter-finals despite all the belief the players may have.

So pointing out that the suggestion that progress means "we should beat Greece home and away and take four points off France/Holland or if we fail to do that then we should qualify through the play-offs and perform well at the finals" is utter gibberish isn't throwing in the towel.

There's a shade in between black and white here.

Do you think winning a series in New Zealand is not a big deal? not a real thing per say?

Irish fans seem to be very much we have no hope and that's my point. of course is a terrible draw Im not blind

Its football... things happen Greece won the f**king thing

[John83]

Maybe you're talking at cross-purposes a bit. Pineapple means by expectations the outcome you'd be happy to bet on at evens. Us qualifying is not evens. Saying that is not to say we have no hope at all of qualfiying. It's just saying that you'd be stupid to bet on it at evens.

[pineapple stu]

I actually think we have no hope of qualifying from this group, and all the belief in the world here won't change what happens on the pitch. No more than all the belief in the world here hasn't turned Aaron Connolly/Aaron Drinan/Ryan Cassidy/Danny Mandroiu into 45-goal international strikers. But I will still go to the games hoping we will win for what that's worth.

But my post was directed at samhaydenjr when he said (across two posts) -

None of those - if we are to show genuine progression at this point, six points from Greece (and Gibraltar!) and four from twelve against Holland and France.

If we were making good progress I think it would actually be attainable. That's why I think that it should be a benchmark for judging Kenny's performance[...]Now if we fall short of this mark, I would still be OK with Kenny staying on if he manages to get us in via the playoffs and we perform well in the Finals

That's fanciful stuff.

[Diggs246]

I actually think we have no hope of qualifying from this group, and all the belief in the world here won't change what happens on the pitch. No more than all the belief in the world here hasn't turned Aaron Connolly/Aaron Drinan/Ryan Cassidy/Danny Mandroiu into 45-goal international strikers. But I will still go to the games hoping we will win for what that's worth.

But my post was directed at samhaydenjr when he said (across two posts) -


That's fanciful stuff.

"all the belief in the world here won't change what happens on the pitch"

You should look into becoming a motivational speaker. !!

[pineapple stu]

Or a writer of fantasy?