Next Ireland manager?

[pineapple stu]

Go on, I'll start it.

Comments about "There's a game on Tuesday, get behind the team, we're still second and unbeaten", etc, etc all taken and understood.

But this difficult second album/campaign is starting to have echoes of Trap's 2014 campaign - ****e football, and worsening results despite some lucky escapes. And I can't for the life of me see why O'Neill would stay on for a third campaign with no players coming through.

So - whenever it happens, who's in the frame for next Ireland manager?

Chris Hughton? Can the FAI afford to lure someone away from the Premiership?

Mick McCarthy? Would he come back?

John Sheridan? Always seems ready to move up a level, but then gets sacked and ends up back at the third/fourth tier again. Is he really international standard? Can we be that picky?

Stephen Kenny? There's actually no other Irish managers employed in the English league at present, so if an Irish manager is important, Kenny has to be in the mix - but would the FAI trust a LoI manager after the last time? I know I found Kerr's negativity frustrating anyway. I know Kenny's not Kerr, but this is the FAI, and pandering to barstoolers could be important.

Then there's the "someone else" option - but I think O'Neill was fairly unopposed when appointed back in 2013, so who's in this category?

So - quid nunc?

[Park_Lane]

If and when we get a new manager, they need to be open minded with regards to style of play, players available and tactics. I'd hate another "seen it all before manager" to come in and tell us we have crap players and can only play one way. When Mick came in for his 1st stint, he had to upend the squad as it was an ageing team that had been neglected of new faces for years, so he brought through loads of players that were the basis of our team for the next 15 years. He picked players that hadn't even started a game for their clubs and blooded them. I don't think that is needed this time, and I think we just need some one who believes we can play football. You trying to tell me that a midfield that could potentially have Brady/Hendrick/Arthur/McCarthy/McLean can't play football? Course they can and it just needs a coach who believes they can and implements this and our team is transformed. We may miss out on a few tournaments getting it right but shag it its better that the type of football we have been seeing for the last 10 years. Stephen Kenny would be my pick as I know he has a philosophy of playing football. But the FAI are just interested in qualifying by any means necessary, and are probably delighted with the way things are going currently with stonage battering ram football, good it up to the big man.
Sure arent we only a small nation and sure its harder for us to get players with de granny rule now isn't de premiership full of foreign players

[IsMiseSean]

Big Sam?
With the Ruud Dokter working within the FAI, could he tempt a good Dutch manager?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Roy Keane would surely be the front-runner, unless he finds a club job he prefers.

I'm not saying that's the right choice, or my preferred choice, but he'd be in the mix unless the current management teams tenure ends in really bad circumstances.

[Cymro]

Michael O'Neill. Ouch, would that hurt.

[Cymro]

Although obviously the negative football bit would not change.

[Olé Olé]

Happy as is for now but would love to see Stephen Kenny in the future. As above, we have some good midfield players yet last night we had no midfield. It was strange. Kenny has a record of spotting potential and ensuring players fulfill it (okay, Maguire didn't work out great) and plays the right football. Plus it would really help the LOI progress as he would be willing to select players from the league and even more players would be willing to come back or stay in the league for longer.

[DannyInvincible]

O'Neill is more a man-motivator than a strategist/tactician - that has become more and more apparent over time - and we've played some utterly dire, uninspiring and frankly embarrassing football for the overwhelming majority of this campaign. Wasn't it always said that John Robertson provided the real tactical nous as O'Neill's assistant? He hasn't been with O'Neill since they were together at Aston Villa, which was before 2010. Since then, O'Neill managed Sunderland, which didn't go very well for him and ended with him being sacked in 2013, and was appointed Ireland manager both on account of being available at the time and due to the reputation he'd built up over the years (mainly with Robinson at his side).

I've frequently been prepared to stand up for O'Neill as he has had a nack for getting the necessary result in the end - he has also pulled off some truly memorable results, such as taking four points off Germany in Euro 2016 qualification, impressively negotiating the play-offs against B&H and beating Italy at the Euros - but I've gradually begun to lose faith and perhaps patience over this campaign. And it's not just the last few games; we started things off really badly in Serbia. I think last night's result was one that has been coming for a while (although dropping points at home to Austria was a huge disappointment as well). There's a feeling that we've been "riding our luck" a bit and, somehow, we've been getting away with playing so poorly, up until last night.

The group opener away in Serbia was an awful performance but we somehow managed to scrape through with an undeserved point. We also played very badly in the home game against Georgia and were fortunate to come out on top. We were also really poor and uninspiring at home to Wales and later Austria (up until a desperate push for a winner in the late stages). Even for a long spell away to Moldova, we were frustrated and it looked like a goal might never come, but thankfully it did and we went on to score a third, which provided much relief. It hadn't been a great performance though against a pretty poor side. Indeed, the goal we conceded in that game was unforgivable.

Three points from our last three games is a poor return. The only performance worth talking about so far in this campaign was the away win against Austria, which was admittedly a huge result, but also a huge surprise. It's worth noting that Austria have been proven in this group to be a much inferior team to the level they were at maybe two or three years ago. Wales managed to take a very crucial three points off them at home last night and should have beaten them by more than one goal.

There's almost a sense that O'Neill was finally "found out" last night or that his "luck finally ran out". The personnel selection simply didn't suit the style of play (hoofball) for which he'd apparently opted - Brady was a passenger whilst Long was ineffective - and even when the changes were made (frustratingly, much later in the second half than what would have been the ideal point of half-time), we still totally lacked any sort of organisational structure, cohesion or coherent game-plan. The complete absence of Hoolahan - our most effective and creative player (and the stats back up that contention) - was just odd.

O'Neill can get needlessly defensive and evasive in interviews and press conferences which, as AlanOB pointed out elsewhere, only betrays self-doubt and obvious insecurities. The post-game interview with Tony O'Donoghue on RTÉ last night wasn't just personally disrespectful to O'Donoghue (who was simply asking valid and legitimate questions that needed to be asked, and answered); the evasiveness and lack of humility shown after such an abysmal performance was an insult to the intelligence of supporters, analysts and the interested public. There was no need for how he conducted himself there. I used to get the sense he just enjoyed toying with the media from time to time and that the enigmatic aura he transmits or exhibits was part of his dry and sarcastic sense of humour, but, sometimes, you just get the impression he's deflecting, bluffing and spoofing because he's trying to mask faults, weakness and uncertainty.

The puzzling excuses and contradictory explanations regarding Seáni Maguire's belated or overdue call-up to the most recent extended squad, for example, when he could easily have brought Maguire into the Fota Island training camp to have a better look at the player and help him get comfortable with the international set-up, his apparent reluctance to give run-outs to the likes of a seriously in-form Daryl Horgan or even Andy Boyle until they moved away from the LOI, despite them performing so impressively against some of the most talented players in Europe, and some odd personnel decisions straight out of left-field (like throwing Kevin Long in against Austria off the back of a few games in the EPL and then dropping him again for no apparent reason or selecting Gary Rogers as third-choice keeper, seemingly just because he was playing for a Dundalk team who were doing well and to give a token nod to the LOI, even though Rogers was/is nowhere near the best keeper in the league) have chipped away at my confidence in O'Neill and had me scratching my head on occasion. Who were the "couple of lads" O'Neill originally claimed were "ahead of [Maguire] in terms of experience" (in order to explain his unwillingness to select Maguire), for example? Adam Rooney is a regular feature in provisional squads and he has zero experience.

He doesn't appear to have made much of an effort to keep tabs on Cillian Sheridan either, who has been in terrific form since moving to Poland, where he's playing at a level considerably superior to the SPL, a league from which O'Neill is evidently happy to select/consider players (Jonny Hayes, Adam Rooney and Danny Rogers, for example). I find that disappointing and, again, his explanation that there are other players ahead of Sheridan in the pecking order sounds like a lazy excuse for simply not having done his homework insofar as he avoided naming these alleged players. Who are they? It was the same dubious excuse he used to explain his previous disregarding of Maguire. Sheridan would offer something different and would be worth devoting greater time and attention to than continually calling a past-it Kevin Doyle into squads. I'm sure there have been some other odd calls/incidents here and there that don't spring to mind right now but have had me thinking O'Neill isn't fully on the ball.

Is Declan Rice off-the-radar again despite a previous call-up to a training squad and starting this EPL campaign in West Ham's first-team? Strangely, he didn't even make the recent extended squad. Then, there's Liam Kelly who would offer some midfield creativity, but is, as of yet, uncapped and regularly misses out on final squads when it would definitely be worth giving the lad a run-out.

If O'Neill was to be replaced - and it's something I'm growing more and more open to because I think there are superior options out there and we could be utilising our talents much better - I'd like to see either Stephen Kenny or Michael O'Neill in charge. Kenny would be the preference. He does a great job with Dundalk on limited resources and has them playing a fantastic and very much watchable brand of football that also happens to bring positive results. Kenny has worked directly with a few of the players in and around the squad before as well - James McClean, Stephen Ward, Daryl Horgan, Seáni Maguire and Andy Boyle, for example - and I'm sure he would command a broad respect, especially from those who came through or played in the LOI and those who may have encountered him already in some form or another due to that. (When Brian Kerr was put in charge of the senior international team, there seemed to be a disconnect or a lack of respect from the players, possibly on account of Kerr's LOI background at a time when our international players simply didn't come through the LOI, save for the odd exception like Jason Byrne or Glen Crowe who didn't receive a huge deal of international recognition anyway, but I would expect a contrast in how the present group of players would regard Kenny.) Michael O'Neill, meanwhile, has NI playing competitive football with a limited group of players, very few of whom would get into our starting line-up. What he's done with them is phenomenal really.

Perhaps Martin will prove me wrong and we'll go out and beat Serbia on Tuesday but I just don't see it happening right now, as much as I'd love it to. He says we're going for the win, but I can just envisage another tepid, lacklustre and disorganised performance that will ultimately end in a disappointing draw after an all-too-late push. A draw might have been acceptable had we beaten Georgia but it will leave us in serious trouble now given last night's results.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Who says Michael O'Neill would want the job?

[DannyInvincible]

True. I wasn't necessarily assuming Michael O'Neill would want it, particularly considering he's doing pretty well where he is and is on his way to guaranteeing a play-off place for NI tomorrow night. He's just someone locally-based who I'd be happy to see get the job if it became available and he was willing, so that's why I mentioned him.

Just something further that came to mind on O'Neill's seeming neglect and repeated omission from even provisional squads of Cillian Sheridan, which I think to be pretty shabby and unsatisfactory...

In an interview with 'Off the Ball' about three months ago, O'Neill made the following complaint when asked about the Irish media's questioning of his squad selections:

"The questions will always be about the players you haven't picked, y'know? About 'why are you not picking that lad who is playing outside left in the Siberian league?'

Well, actually, y'know, I haven't had a chance to see him playing and, actually, he's 36 and didn't make the grade at Shamrock Rovers.

So, if the people asking the questions actually went and sat down and tried to analyse before they actually asked the questions, they might think 'mmm, this is actually pretty ridiculous', so let's go and concentrate on the players that we have."

Except nobody's asking that ludicrously distorted straw man "example" of a question, which, considering there had been articles and talk in the media at the time asking O'Neill to consider Sheridan and Seáni Maguire, obviously contained a veiled and exaggerated reference to those calls for Sheridan's inclusion in squads, as if the player is playing in some obscure league in the far east or mightn't be worthy of consideration because he "didn't make it" in the SPL with Celtic. Once again, O'Neill was using his sarcasm to deflect from a legitimate question about his methods.

It's entirely reasonable that O'Neill would be expected to keep a very close eye on Sheridan's impressive progress in Poland. If O'Neill can follow Kevin Doyle (who's actually much closer to 36 than Sheridan is) playing MLS in the US, he can certainly do his homework on Sheridan in Poland. He has plenty of time to arrange a flight to Poland and go over and watch Sheridan play if he somehow doesn't have access to match footage. This is the information age, after all, and the age of cheap flights. In fact, O'Neill said in a press conference last March that he would try and get over to Poland to see Sheridan play, but clearly nothing has been done on that front.

I just had a look at the Georgia squad and they have players from 16 different leagues in their current squad. That means their manager has had to keep track of all these players playing in each of those 16 different leagues across Europe (plus those possibly playing in other leagues who might have missed out on selection). Quite a few of those leagues are of much lesser renown than the Polish league. Serbia's manager has players from 12 different leagues in his squad. Martin O'Neill, on the other hand, more or less keeps track of what's going on in one country - England - or two/three at a push (if you include Scotland and perhaps the US, considering Doyle plays there, or Ireland, considering he attends the odd LOI game, although it's hard to know whether that's an aspect of his PR duties with the FAI or if he's on serious scouting missions then). Adding Poland to his itinerary shouldn't be that big a deal. Other international managers have much tougher assignments when it comes to keeping track of their players scattered across Europe or the globe and they manage it just fine.

To implicitly denigrate Sheridan on 'Off the Ball' for plying his trade in Poland in order to try and defend or justify the fact O'Neill himself couldn't be bothered to spend time monitoring the player just because he plays outside the traditional sphere of consideration/observation is a bit shabby, in my opinion.

To disparage Shamrock Rovers and employ them as the butt of his caricature was also a bit unseemly and uncalled for in light of the fact they're one of the biggest clubs in the country in which he manages and are the leading LOI club in terms of youth development in Ireland. You'd wonder is O'Neill even aware of the promising work being done there. I don't think you'd ever find, say, Gordon Strachan ridiculing a potential Scottish international for "not even making the grade at Celtic/Rangers/Aberdeen" or using such a detail as a yardstick by which to measure or prove that player's alleged failure or irrelevance in the world of football. I couldn't imagine him being so disrespectful towards his own country's clubs or casually dismissing its national league as a laughing stock. When Trap ignorantly claimed there was "no league in Ireland" (despite a number of his players having come through it), he was rightly criticised.

[gastric]

Pretty disgusted with this thread. Yes, we were horrible against Georgia, but this is the sort of thread, I would expect from English supporters. Debating about the manager's future is tabloid crap at best. Get behind the manager and team ffs and let's get a win on Tuesday. It's this type of mentality that paralyses England who are more afraid of losing than going after a win. This attitude is now beginning to affect Ireland. Get over yourselves!

[DannyInvincible]

There are legitimate questions to be asked of O'Neill on account of repeatedly dire performances and some odd calls (which have been outlined above), yet he frequently dodges them. There's no point papering over the cracks, putting our heads in the sand and having blind faith if we want what is best for the team. I don't think anyone's sincerity in wanting what is best for Ireland can be questioned. O'Neill should have been able to answer in a courteous manner the entirely reasonable questions Tony put his way post-match.

All that I've said doesn't mean either that I won't be giving my full support and hoping desperately for a win on Tuesday. I will happily eat my words of doubt if we win.

Also, I don't think anyone has actually explicitly called for O'Neill's sacking, so it's not quite a baying mob or anything of the sort just yet.

[gastric]

O'Neill has what is a mediocre, aging squad. Yet we have not lost a game in qualifying and may possibly qualify for consecutive tournaments for the second time ever. If we qualify, he will probably be then labelled a genius. Unfortunately we don't have enough quality players to successfully play an out and out passing game. I wholeheartedly agree it is absolutely crap to watch, but that's where we are at. What I find annoying is premature, kneejerk reactions which don't reflect the complete reality of the situation.

[DannyInvincible]

Unfortunately we don't have enough quality players to successfully play an out and out passing game. I wholeheartedly agree it is absolutely crap to watch, but that's where we are at. What I find annoying is premature, kneejerk reactions which don't reflect the complete reality of the situation.

I disagree. If Dundalk can do it against Zenit or Rosenborg and be seriously competitive, Ireland can do it against the likes of Georgia. And we do have the personnel to keep the ball on the ground and pass it around midfield. McGeady, Hoolahan, Brady, Hendrick, McCarthy, Arter, Horgan, Kelly, O'Kane, Gibson and Hourihane are all talented, technically-capable and/or creative players who can do things with the ball at their feet in the middle and/or final thirds of the park.

[pineapple stu]

Unfortunately we don't have enough quality players to successfully play an out and out passing game. I wholeheartedly agree it is absolutely crap to watch, but that's where we are at. What I find annoying is premature, kneejerk reactions which don't reflect the complete reality of the situation.

Sorry, this is complete crap. This is a video of UCD's match against Slovan Bratislava in the Europa League two years ago (skip to 40:20; I can't find how to put on a time-stamp) -



It's a team of part-time and amateur students putting together 24 passes before creating a great chance (probably should have been a penalty and a red card in the end) against a side full of international players, three of whom had played at the World Cup and a fourth of whom was well on the way to playing in the Euros.

Yes, Slovan were down to ten at the time, but if an LoI First Division side can play like that against a much better team, than Ireland, with players in one of the top leagues in Europe, don't need to hoof the ball aimlessly and hopefully against a much worse team.