Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

[geysir]

Andrews was the Christie of his day - he was never getting more than a 6 no matter how he played. Fact is we were winning that game until a brainfart at the end having been the better team. Italians were raving about Andrews.

You’re sellig Keith short, wasn’t he awarded poty one year? Not just a dapper dan.

[DeLorean]

Paul Green was the Christie of his day.

[Stuttgart88]

That’s what Owls Fan said!

Anyway, did we not make a play off by virtue of finishing 3rd and also the last 16 by virtue of finishing 3rd? Sure, the rules are the rules but by similar standards we should be heaping more praise on Hand, Jack, Mick and Kerr (though I think Kerr’s best was 4th so maybe scratch that ).

I’m not being a curmudgeon but outqualifying Scotland and Wales was the big achievement here. Not to be scoffed at but that’s the high point!

[DeLorean]

That’s what Owls Fan said!

Maybe that's why it came to mind so quickly. Anyway, it's a far better comparison I think.

[DeLorean]

I’m not being a curmudgeon but outqualifying Scotland and Wales was the big achievement here. Not to be scoffed at but that’s the high point!

A Scotland side you were borderline in awe of for a while (in comparison to ourselves)?

It's unquestionably the best Welsh side ever too, European semi finalists. I think finishing ahead of them with what is generally perceived as one of our worst group of players in decades is a big enough achievement.

Germany and Poland were better than us. Finishing third in that group meets the minimum requirement. Beating Bosnia in the playoff exceeds the minimum requirement. Making the knockouts of the tournament itself is pretty much dreamland. Yes, third place finishes being rewarded was clearly a major advantage for O'Neill over previous managers, but I wasn't comparing him to previous managers. If I was I could argue the point that they generally had much better players anyway.

We also outperformed/outqualified Bosnia, Austria and Sweden along the way too.

The major high points were the wins over Germany & Italy, along with wins in Vienna and Cardiff and obviously beating Bosnia to secure qualification. You could throw in the late equaliser in Gelsenkirchen too. That is not a shabby list by any means over the period of two campaigns.

[jbyrne]

A Scotland side you were borderline in awe of for a while (in comparison to ourselves)?

It's unquestionably the best Welsh side ever too, European semi finalists. I think finishing ahead of them with what is generally perceived as one of our worst group of players in decades is a big enough achievement.

Germany and Poland were better than us. Finishing third in that group meets the minimum requirement. Beating Bosnia in the playoff exceeds the minimum requirement. Making the knockouts of the tournament itself is pretty much dreamland. Yes, third place finishes being rewarded was clearly a major advantage for O'Neill over previous managers, but I wasn't comparing him to previous managers. If I was I could argue the point that they generally had much better players anyway.

We also outperformed/outqualified Bosnia, Austria and Sweden along the way too.

The major high points were the wins over Germany & Italy, along with wins in Vienna and Cardiff and obviously beating Bosnia to secure qualification. You could throw in the late equaliser in Gelsenkirchen too. That is not a shabby list by any means over the period of two campaigns.

also, two of the six third placed teams didn't make it through to the last 16 of the euros.
a lot of sense in your post above. yes, the last 12 months have not been great but the darkest of the night is just before the dawn... as they say!

[Stuttgart88]

A Scotland side you were borderline in awe of for a while (in comparison to ourselves)?

It's unquestionably the best Welsh side ever too, European semi finalists. I think finishing ahead of them with what is generally perceived as one of our worst group of players in decades is a big enough achievement.

Germany and Poland were better than us. Finishing third in that group meets the minimum requirement. Beating Bosnia in the playoff exceeds the minimum requirement. Making the knockouts of the tournament itself is pretty much dreamland. Yes, third place finishes being rewarded was clearly a major advantage for O'Neill over previous managers, but I wasn't comparing him to previous managers. If I was I could argue the point that they generally had much better players anyway.

We also outperformed/outqualified Bosnia, Austria and Sweden along the way too.

The major high points were the wins over Germany & Italy, along with wins in Vienna and Cardiff and obviously beating Bosnia to secure qualification. You could throw in the late equaliser in Gelsenkirchen too. That is not a shabby list by any means over the period of two campaigns.

Yeah, I agree largely. Scotland were actually quite good for Strachan's first 18 months or so. But we were till lucky 3rd place qualified!

O'Neill definitely had some great moments, more than most, but there's a lot I just don't like about him (anymore - I used to think he was the bees knees) and when results were good they compensated for that. They don't now and I think he is very lucky to be still in this job, particularly when it seemed he wasn't even that keen on it himself last year.

[Stuttgart88]

also, two of the six third placed teams didn't make it through to the last 16 of the euros.
a lot of sense in your post above. yes, the last 12 months have not been great but the darkest of the night is just before the dawn... as they say!

I hope you're right!

[geysir]

Where I bide, the darkest of the night is just followed by more darkness.

If I was to draw a parallel with us now and some place in O'Neill's career it would be with his last job at Sunderland. He went from a good beginning to that losing streak, couldn't buy a win, manager O'Neill was having no impact, yet he was totally convinced that he could save Sunderland from relegation and still does to this day remain absolutely convinced of that. As everybody knows he was sacked, some nutcase manager was brought in and even he could bring about the highly improbable and save Sunderland from the drop.
I'd guess that many observers of Sunderland's plight at that time had little confidence in O'Neill's bravado.

[Charlie Darwin]

Yeah, I agree largely. Scotland were actually quite good for Strachan's first 18 months or so. But we were till lucky 3rd place qualified!

O'Neill definitely had some great moments, more than most, but there's a lot I just don't like about him (anymore - I used to think he was the bees knees) and when results were good they compensated for that. They don't now and I think he is very lucky to be still in this job, particularly when it seemed he wasn't even that keen on it himself last year.

If only you'd listened to me at the time when I told you Scotland always choke.

[CraftyToePoke]

Where I bide, the darkest of the night is just followed by more darkness.

If I was to draw a parallel with us now and some place in O'Neill's career it would be with his last job at Sunderland. He went from a good beginning to that losing streak, couldn't buy a win, manager O'Neill was having no impact, yet he was totally convinced that he could save Sunderland from relegation and still does to this day remain absolutely convinced of that. As everybody knows he was sacked, some nutcase manager was brought in and even he could bring about the highly improbable and save Sunderland from the drop.
I'd guess that many observers of Sunderland's plight at that time had little confidence in O'Neill's bravado.

It is bravado, and its also boll*x. When we won in Vienna to top the group, he couldn't talk us down enough, everyone should remember that. We consequently shrivelled and shrunk and that is still in process. All that ensuing campaign he talked us down, but now suddenly we are going to do the business in a group he doesn't even know his opponent yet ?? Balls. Self preservation and insulting peoples intelligence.

[DeLorean]

Totally. Hopefully it works though.

[SkStu]

https://www.the42.ie/martin-oneill-republic-of-ireland-4292175-Oct2018/?utm_source=shortlink

Ego and insecurity have followed Martin O'Neill around for his entire career.

For the Republic of Ireland boss, the smugness isn’t a good look when so much negativity currently surrounds the Irish side.

[Diggs246]

That article wont help his insecurity!

[seanfhear]

Could Mick McCarthy give some pointers to Roy Keane in his assistant coach role i.e. some actual coaching .