Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

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  • DannyInvincible
    Capped Player
    • Sep 2006
    • 11521

    #1786
    Originally posted by jbyrne
    oneill has taken risks too at times but obviously that's generally been forgotten. was kevin long starting against Austria not a risk? or the new ctre back partnership in the win against Italy in the Euros?
    its not as if woodburn started either of wales last two games and he was instead thrown on only when wales were struggling and running out of ideas. maybe the risk oneill took last week against Serbia was to put on odowda.... not oneills fault that odowda isn't the same quality player as woodburn
    Fair enough points, although I would have thought going with Daryl Horgan might have been the "risk" option against Serbia as Horgan had/has yet to play in a competitive fixture. I think Horgan is a more dangerous and penetrative player than O'Dowda with an explosive yet deceptive burst of pace, but O'Neill clearly doesn't have enough faith in him yet, which is unfortunately. Of course, I do acknowledge it's all very subjective and personal preference can lead to bias or weigh heavily on whether or not one thinks O'Neill made a "safe" call or took a "risk".

    Kevin Long's inclusion against Austria was an odd one. It was very much out-of-the-blue, but I'd actually put it in the reactive (rather than proactive) bracket. Two or three EPL appearances for Long in the run-up to that game appeared to heavily or disproportionately influence O'Neill's decision-making process at the time, as if it all-of-a-sudden proved to O'Neill that Long was a safe choice, and then Long was effectively dropped again for the next game for no apparent reason. Would O'Neill have checked Long out of his own volition and selected him purely on the basis of his own personal judgment if the player hadn't been fortunate enough to get those appearance for Burnley at the end of the last EPL season? It's hard to know. Personally, I don't think O'Neill's trust in his own judgment would stretch that far; it just seems very reliant on the calls of club managers, as if they provide O'Neill with a sort of defensive/supportive crutch, shoulder for potential blame-sharing or something to fall back upon if the call goes wrong. That's just how it seems to me.
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    • brine3
      First Team
      • Jul 2004
      • 1439

      #1787
      People say O'Neill was unlucky with the Coleman injury, but the way Ireland approached that match is partially to blame for why it turned into such a reckless display of violence. A Welsh or Irish player was bound to get seriously hurt. A more positive approach and less hoofball and it might have been a more amicable match.

      All our best results from the past 20 years are from when we got the ball on the ground and played football. We didn't beat Holland from set pieces.

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      • TheOneWhoKnocks
        Banned
        • Dec 2013
        • 5244

        #1788
        O'Neill's management fairly being shown up by Maguire's Championship form.

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        • Charlie Darwin
          Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months.
          • Jan 2010
          • 18576

          #1789
          Originally posted by brine3
          People say O'Neill was unlucky with the Coleman injury, but the way Ireland approached that match is partially to blame for why it turned into such a reckless display of violence. A Welsh or Irish player was bound to get seriously hurt. A more positive approach and less hoofball and it might have been a more amicable match.

          All our best results from the past 20 years are from when we got the ball on the ground and played football. We didn't beat Holland from set pieces.
          Would you go away? The only person responsible for Coleman'ss injury is Taylor for the ridiculous tackle.

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          • TheOneWhoKnocks
            Banned
            • Dec 2013
            • 5244

            #1790
            It's like Shawcross on Ramsey. He probably didn't want to break Coleman's leg but you can't tell me he didn't mean to hurt him (not to that extent) to send a message.

            I'm sure he feels gutted.

            People punch people in the face and people end up in comas because they fall like a sack of potatoes and hit their heads on concrete; something that wouldn't be as dangerous if it happened on softer surfaces.

            Maybe, you shouldn't put your whole bodyweight behind tackles like that, because, similarly, you cannot legislate for the consequences.

            Comment

            • brine3
              First Team
              • Jul 2004
              • 1439

              #1791
              Originally posted by Charlie Darwin
              Would you go away? The only person responsible for Coleman'ss injury is Taylor for the ridiculous tackle.
              There are multiple people responsible.

              Taylor is responsible, yes. The managers are also responsible for instructing the players to play caveman football. Glenn Whelan nearly maimed a couple of Welsh players as well. The referee is also responsible for not cracking down on the match in the first half.

              What I'm saying is that when you instruct your team to play rough, people will get hurt. So O'Neill shares responsibility. He also picked James McCarthy when he clearly wasn't fully fit yet, and James McCarthy's injury got even worse. Is O'Neill also unlucky because of that?

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              • tetsujin1979
                Coach
                • Nov 2003
                • 23730

                #1792
                Nobody else is responsible besides Taylor.
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                • jbyrne
                  Seasoned Pro
                  • Sep 2004
                  • 3497

                  #1793
                  Originally posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
                  O'Neill's management fairly being shown up by Maguire's Championship form.
                  sure murphys form for forest is similar.

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                  • TheOneWhoKnocks
                    Banned
                    • Dec 2013
                    • 5244

                    #1794
                    Murphy would have been the prototypical Trapattoni forward.

                    Imagine him coming on instead of Sammon against Austria when we drew 2-2.

                    Comment

                    • Fixer82
                      Seasoned Pro
                      • Nov 2009
                      • 3449

                      #1795
                      Originally posted by TheOneWhoKnocks
                      Murphy would have been the prototypical Trapattoni forward.

                      Imagine him coming on instead of Sammon against Austria when we drew 2-2.
                      Murphy played in Trap's first ever game but Trap obviously didn't rate him too highly as he preferred Caleb Folan and Sammon over him.
                      Folding my way into the big money!!!

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                      • TheOneWhoKnocks
                        Banned
                        • Dec 2013
                        • 5244

                        #1796
                        I think Daryl was playing most of his football out wide, for club and country then.

                        Didn't he set one up for Andy Keogh in that Serbia game?

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                        • gastric
                          First Team
                          • Aug 2010
                          • 2327

                          #1797
                          Amazing amount of analysis occurring on here. Would O'Neill play Woodburne? We don't have this situation, so why ask the question. Maguire is also being portrayed as the Messiah and we should condemn O'Neill for not picking him. Yes, he is a good player, and hopefully will develop further, but he has scored two goals in the Championship. Hourihane has scored more. Maybe we put Hourihane forward as per some of the supposed logic on here. I am being highly cynical, but give me patience, there is far too much garbage being portrayed as debate on here presently.

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                          • Charlie Darwin
                            Banned. Children Banned. Grandchildren Banned. 3 Months.
                            • Jan 2010
                            • 18576

                            #1798
                            Originally posted by brine3
                            There are multiple people responsible.

                            Taylor is responsible, yes. The managers are also responsible for instructing the players to play caveman football. Glenn Whelan nearly maimed a couple of Welsh players as well. The referee is also responsible for not cracking down on the match in the first half.

                            What I'm saying is that when you instruct your team to play rough, people will get hurt. So O'Neill shares responsibility. He also picked James McCarthy when he clearly wasn't fully fit yet, and James McCarthy's injury got even worse. Is O'Neill also unlucky because of that?
                            No, it's complete nonsense. The only over-aggressive tackles on the day came from Welsh players. Blaming O'Neill for Wales players going over the ball is next-level bull****.

                            I don't know why you're bringing up picking McCarthy as it has nothing to do with your badly-conceived point.

                            Comment

                            • brine3
                              First Team
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 1439

                              #1799
                              Originally posted by tetsujin1979
                              Nobody else is responsible besides Taylor.
                              The match was a feast of lunging in left, right and centre into 50/50 tackles. Somebody was bound to break somebody's leg eventually. As it was, it was Taylor's boot connecting with Coleman's leg.

                              Sure, Taylor is responsible for that. But, on another day, with two different managers playing different football, it's possible that all 22 players would have left the pitch injury-free.
                              Last edited by brine3; 14/09/2017, 4:08 AM.

                              Comment

                              • brine3
                                First Team
                                • Jul 2004
                                • 1439

                                #1800
                                Originally posted by Charlie Darwin
                                I don't know why you're bringing up picking McCarthy as it has nothing to do with your badly-conceived point.
                                Well if you don't want to engage me on the McCarthy point then you don't have to.

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